Extreme Curio & Relic

**XavierBreath** · February 10, 2007, 11:24 PM

I purchased a handgun today that is rather unusual. It appears to have been made from a Martini-Henry rifle. I'm thinking it was made in Nepal, the Congo or Afghanistan. It is decorated with triangular punch marks. Has anyone ever seen one of these before or know anything at all about it?

Blackfork · February 10, 2007, 11:33 PM

That's a heck of a thing. Any numbers on it anywhere? Black powder cartridge I expect? Same as a Martini?

One shot, one kill.

SDC · February 10, 2007, 11:38 PM

That's what I think of when I hear "Khyber Pass pistol"; the workshops in Pakistan and Afghanistan are STILL making copies of Martinis.

**XavierBreath** · February 10, 2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Any numbers on it anywhere?

Only on the left side, a small 30.

Will5A1 · February 11, 2007, 07:13 AM

Where in the world did you find that? At one or your pawnshops?

I want one.

**XavierBreath** · February 11, 2007, 09:48 AM

I found it at a gun show. Here's the start of the blog story. Here are a few more pics.

I have not yet slugged it to determine the caliber. The action is tight, but that might be from the goat dung used as lubricant.

I paid $125. I figure I'll get that much enjoyment from it.

Angus Lincoln · February 11, 2007, 05:46 PM

I'd be willing to bet that your wife will love it and be happy that she'll be the first kid on the block to have one!I hope you get to track down it's origins.

Jim Keenan · February 11, 2007, 06:47 PM

That is a so-called "Khyber Pass" or "Darra" gun, made in that area of Pakistan or Afghanistan. The tradition of gun making in that region goes back centuries, and men consider owning guns an absolute necessity. FWIW, I doubt the gun is made from a rifle; more than likely it was made as a pistol and (for any legal questions) no one could possibly prove otherwise. It is an interesting novelty.

I have a pistol that is almost identical, except that the markings are circles ("o") instead of "V"; apparently they used whatever stamp they could get hold of. Mine also has no other marks. The caliber is .303 British; FWIW, I have fired it with a light load. It works.

Jim

**XavierBreath** · February 11, 2007, 06:59 PM

Jim,
If you have the time and inclination, I would love to see a few photos of your's.
XB

Tamara · February 11, 2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

FWIW, I doubt the gun is made from a rifle; more than likely it was made as a pistol and (for any legal questions) no one could possibly prove otherwise.

Nor could they prove it was made after 1895, which I doubt anyway.

Odds are good that the federales don't even consider that to be a firearm.

**JShirley** · February 12, 2007, 05:12 AM

The Martini action is so simple and strong, you see a lot of Khyber Pass copies. Rifle KP Martini versions usually go for around $70 here, but that's the first Martini pistol I've seen.

John

**XavierBreath** · February 12, 2007, 07:00 AM

John,
Are you talking 70 bucks US in Afghanistan?

FWIW, after reading this page and boning up on Martini-Henrys, I am pretty dadgummed certain this one was forged at the Kyber Pass, not converted from a rifle. My primary cause for this conclusion is the lack of a sling swivel in the trigger guard, or a hole for it.

**JShirley** · February 12, 2007, 08:52 AM

Yup.

Even if "converted from rifle", this was a KP piece, which doesn't necessarily mean it would be set up identically to British Martinis.

John

armoredman · February 12, 2007, 10:58 AM

Still, fascinating!

Blackfork · February 12, 2007, 07:44 PM

I wonder what they would think about the name it they knew it came with an olive floating in it?

**XavierBreath** · February 12, 2007, 09:31 PM

I recieved this email from the owner/operator of the Martini-Henry Rifle website.

Quote:

Thanks for your message, and for the kind words about the website. It
makes me happy to hear that people find it useful.

With regards to your pistol, yes, it is either of Khyber manufacture,
or possibly even Indian manufacture. Such weapons were carried as a
"last resort" weapon in the event of a Tiger attack. Given the
prospect of firing a pistol in .303 British, or death by Tiger, I
personally would chose the latter. There's a bit of assumption
there...I'm assuming the pistol is in .303 caliber??? Most of the
ones I've seen have been in .303.

Beyond this, I don't have too much more info for you. I hope this
helps. Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

Best Regards,
Jason Atkin

Jim Keenan · February 12, 2007, 10:29 PM

While I have no doubt that a .303 would take care of a tiger, those M-H pistols were not made for that purpose. The "howdah" pistols, made specifically for protection against tigers were large caliber (usually .577), and had two or four barrels. They were English made, and of very high quality.

I have little doubt that the M-H pistols under discussion here were not intended for use on tigers. For one thing, they were made and used in the mountains, not in tiger country. They were probably made so the natives could carry a powerful pistol concealed when anyone carrying a rifle would have been arrested by the [British] authorities.

FWIW, a couple of pics of mine, below.

Jim

jrfoxx · February 13, 2007, 08:23 AM

Wow, that is VERY cool.So unique, strange and ugly that its back to being beautiful again...
I would LOVE to find one of those somewhere, especially at that price.

Bongo45 · February 13, 2007, 10:21 AM

It reminds me of something you'd see a prisoner cobble together in his spare time...

Trebor · February 13, 2007, 05:18 PM

You should post the pic on the Martini Henry forum over at www.gunboards.com They'll probably get a kick out of it and might be able to provide some info. There's a sticky on "Kyber Pass" rifles there.

Jim Keenan · February 13, 2007, 05:38 PM

I paid $7.50 for mine, and it came by mail, pre-1968. Navy Arms had bought a lot of junque from somewhere and were selling the stuff dirt cheap. FYI, I will show a couple of pics of a Webley Mk IV copy that came from the same place. I think it was $9.00.

The second picture shows the markings. The "PIKINGHAM & LOND" mark is actually pretty well done, but I guarantee neither it nor the Webley trademark is authentic.

Jim

ABTOMAT · February 23, 2007, 11:30 PM

So, when do we hear the range report?

martini-henry · February 24, 2007, 05:23 AM

I have pretty much an exact same handgun. There are some very small differences, but it's basically the same. Mine is stamped with 8's. Here's what I know about it: It was purchased in Vancouver, BC in 1970 from Lever Arms Service. Lever stated that it is a .303 calibre, one shot with a 140 mm barrel. I know this because it's typed out on an RCMP Restricted Weapon Registration Certificate. It is classified as a Martini-Enfield, but a few years ago I took it to the RCMP & they sent photos back to a firearm technician who works for the Canadian Firearm Registry. He stated: "The firearm subject is of the Martini-Henry family, the pronounced shoulder at the back of the receiver/frame denote a Martini-Henry IV model originally chambered for 577/450 Martini-Henry caliber. If your handgun is chambered for such caliber it qualifies under the Antique regulation therefore registration is not required in Canada."

Geno · February 24, 2007, 01:58 PM

I like that...very cool! If you ever need a "pistol-sitter" let me know.

Doc2005

February 10, 2007, 11:33 PM	#2
Blackfork Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,222	Holy Allah-blaster! That's a heck of a thing. Any numbers on it anywhere? Black powder cartridge I expect? Same as a Martini? One shot, one kill.

February 10, 2007, 11:38 PM	#3
SDC Member Join Date: January 8, 2003 Location: People's Republic of Canada Posts: 2,731	That's what I think of when I hear "Khyber Pass pistol"; the workshops in Pakistan and Afghanistan are STILL making copies of Martinis. __________________ Gun Control in Canada: Keeping the streets safe for muggers, rapists, and other violent criminals since 1934.

February 11, 2007, 05:46 PM	#7
Angus Lincoln Member Join Date: September 10, 2004 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 21	I'd be willing to bet that your wife will love it and be happy that she'll be the first kid on the block to have one!I hope you get to track down it's origins. __________________ what if the SHTF?

February 11, 2007, 06:59 PM	#9
XavierBreath Administrator Join Date: January 6, 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 5,082	Jim, If you have the time and inclination, I would love to see a few photos of your's. XB __________________ Xavier's Blog LouisianaCarry.org

February 12, 2007, 05:12 AM	#11
JShirley Administrator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: VA Posts: 10,607	The Martini action is so simple and strong, you see a lot of Khyber Pass copies. Rifle KP Martini versions usually go for around $70 here, but that's the first Martini pistol I've seen. John __________________ Wandering Thoughts Battle Blog The best gun is the gun you are best with..- Ed Ames

February 11, 2007, 07:13 AM	#5
Will5A1 Member Join Date: May 17, 2006 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 352	Where in the world did you find that? At one or your pawnshops? I want one.

February 11, 2007, 06:47 PM	#8
Jim Keenan Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 9,151	That is a so-called "Khyber Pass" or "Darra" gun, made in that area of Pakistan or Afghanistan. The tradition of gun making in that region goes back centuries, and men consider owning guns an absolute necessity. FWIW, I doubt the gun is made from a rifle; more than likely it was made as a pistol and (for any legal questions) no one could possibly prove otherwise. It is an interesting novelty. I have a pistol that is almost identical, except that the markings are circles ("o") instead of "V"; apparently they used whatever stamp they could get hold of. Mine also has no other marks. The caliber is .303 British; FWIW, I have fired it with a light load. It works. Jim

February 12, 2007, 07:00 AM	#12
XavierBreath Administrator Join Date: January 6, 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 5,082	John, Are you talking 70 bucks US in Afghanistan? FWIW, after reading this page and boning up on Martini-Henrys, I am pretty dadgummed certain this one was forged at the Kyber Pass, not converted from a rifle. My primary cause for this conclusion is the lack of a sling swivel in the trigger guard, or a hole for it. __________________ Xavier's Blog LouisianaCarry.org

February 12, 2007, 08:52 AM	#13
JShirley Administrator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: VA Posts: 10,607	Yup. Even if "converted from rifle", this was a KP piece, which doesn't necessarily mean it would be set up identically to British Martinis. John __________________ Wandering Thoughts Battle Blog The best gun is the gun you are best with..- Ed Ames

February 12, 2007, 10:58 AM	#14
armoredman Member Join Date: November 19, 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 10,778	Still, fascinating! __________________ If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous? I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of The United States of America, and to the Republic which it defines. http://www.correctionofficersmemorialwall.com/ http://czforum.com/

February 12, 2007, 07:44 PM	#15
Blackfork Member Join Date: August 26, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,222	Muslim Martini I wonder what they would think about the name it they knew it came with an olive floating in it?

February 13, 2007, 08:23 AM	#18
jrfoxx Member Join Date: September 23, 2004 Location: Evanston,WY Posts: 2,175	Wow, that is VERY cool.So unique, strange and ugly that its back to being beautiful again... I would LOVE to find one of those somewhere, especially at that price.

February 13, 2007, 10:21 AM	#19
Bongo45 Member Join Date: February 8, 2007 Posts: 50	It reminds me of something you'd see a prisoner cobble together in his spare time...

February 13, 2007, 05:18 PM	#20
Trebor Member Join Date: February 15, 2003 Posts: 4,111	You should post the pic on the Martini Henry forum over at www.gunboards.com They'll probably get a kick out of it and might be able to provide some info. There's a sticky on "Kyber Pass" rifles there. __________________ Rob Reed NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol, PPITH) SigArms Academy Certified Instructor (Pistol) Graduate, LFI-1 & LFI-2 CCW classes and private instruction in the Metro Detroit and Lansing areas

February 23, 2007, 11:30 PM	#22
ABTOMAT Member Join Date: February 23, 2006 Location: USA Posts: 582	So, when do we hear the range report?

February 24, 2007, 05:23 AM	#23
martini-henry Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Posts: 1	I have one too I have pretty much an exact same handgun. There are some very small differences, but it's basically the same. Mine is stamped with 8's. Here's what I know about it: It was purchased in Vancouver, BC in 1970 from Lever Arms Service. Lever stated that it is a .303 calibre, one shot with a 140 mm barrel. I know this because it's typed out on an RCMP Restricted Weapon Registration Certificate. It is classified as a Martini-Enfield, but a few years ago I took it to the RCMP & they sent photos back to a firearm technician who works for the Canadian Firearm Registry. He stated: "The firearm subject is of the Martini-Henry family, the pronounced shoulder at the back of the receiver/frame denote a Martini-Henry IV model originally chambered for 577/450 Martini-Henry caliber. If your handgun is chambered for such caliber it qualifies under the Antique regulation therefore registration is not required in Canada."

February 24, 2007, 01:58 PM	#24
Geno Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Posts: 8,815	:) I like that...very cool! If you ever need a "pistol-sitter" let me know. Doc2005 __________________ "A Shootist’s Prayer" Guns are good; Guns are great; Please Lord help those who us hate. Give us this day our daily lead, and hunting land we’ll call a spread. If I should die here on this day, I pray for guns in Heaven with which to play. Amen, Doc2005 02-Nov-2006

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode