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Old March 30, 2007, 01:02 PM   #251
Z_Infidel
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Nem,

First of all, try not to overcomplicate things with using the ghost ring sights. Stick with it and you will get the hang of it -- and it will be worth it.

Like Dave Markowitz said, focus on the front sight. Put the top of the front sight post just beneath where you want the bullet to hit. Allow the ring to be a blur and focus on the front, and boom!

If you are shooting high and the rear sight is bottomed out, contact XS and they will send you a different height sight. They will probably ask you to tell them how high it is shooting at a certain range to help determine which sight to send you.

Also, try to establish zero at 25 yards instead of 50. The elevation at 25 will be closer to the same elevation at 100, whereas if you zero at 50 yards your elevation might be off at 100. Once you have a good 25 yard zero, move out to 100 yards and zero there.

Changing to the smaller aperture is a good move IMO -- that's the one I always use.

Oh, and you left me off the list again. You're gonna give me a complex, man...
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Old March 30, 2007, 03:10 PM   #252
Nematocyst
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Hey, Ryo. Welcome.

Quote:
Oh, and you left me off the list again. You're gonna give me a complex, man...
I'm just checking to make sure everyone is paying attention. Good job.

Sorry, Z. You're back on. It's really not intentional. I think it has to do with you being "Z", the last letter down there, and for some reason when I copy and paste, I don't alway get the Z. I'll be more careful next time.

Now, on to this sight in/high hit issue. Dave & Z, thanks for tips. It's making sense.

Just for the record, yes, I definitely get the "forget rear sight, focus on front post" issue. That's not a problem. I understood that even before I got them. (I'd looked through GR's before, just never used them to shoot.) So don't worry about that part.

My issue is solely that when I use that technique, putting the top of the front post in the center of that fuzzed out ring, and put the 50 yd b'eye on top of that post, I'm hitting about 5-6" high.

I just checked the Remington ballistics page for .30-30. Here's the relevant data for 150 & 170 gr. (So far, I've used only 150's, just to get used to the rifle, sight in and such. I'll try 170's next.)



They claim I'm only supposed to be about 0.3" high at 50 yds if zeroed at 100 (and using Z's logic, also zeroed (or close to it) at 25 yds. I'm hitting about 5-6" high at 50, and that's with the rear ring bottomed out.

Actually, that's with the large ring. I just put on the smaller ring, and noticed that it sits lower, which could help.

Still, I think I'm going to need a taller front post. I'll call XS today and discuss this with them, have them ship out something taller.

I'll also discuss the issue with them that the front post ramp that they sent has two holes for attachment, but my barrel is only tapped for one. I guess that could be part of the problem; that is, maybe the proper front ramp/post IS a one-holer, and they packed in a two-holer ... {No, I don't think the number of holes makes a difference, just that the proper sight for this rifle may have only one hole for attachment ...} I dunno, just thinking out loud.)

By the way, just looking through this smaller ring makes acquisition of the sight picture MUCH quicker. I think it's definitely the one.

Thanks for the help, folks. I'll keep you posted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 30-30_traject.jpg (20.6 KB, 1056 views)
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Old March 30, 2007, 09:24 PM   #253
JustsayMo
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Nem,
If you Marlin is grouping the CoreLokts consider yourself lucky. Inexpensive ammo that performs well on game. My 336 would not shoot them at all unless you call 8" at 50 yards a group. The 170's really stunk.

Gave the ammo to my Bro-in-law and he gets sub 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards in his Winchester ...

FWIW; all of my Marlins seem to like Hornady Ammuntion and bullets.
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Old March 30, 2007, 11:43 PM   #254
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Add me in, please.

My NIB 336CS was a birthday present in 1985... today it is still almost NIB. At the time it was the first rifle over .22LR that I owned.

Thanks for the club.
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Old March 31, 2007, 01:01 AM   #255
Nematocyst
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Andy, welcome.
You'll find your name on the roster.
I'd enjoy hearing more about that 336CS.
What makes it different, say, from 336C?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J'mo
If your Marlin is grouping the CoreLokts consider yourself lucky.
J'Mo:

Group? What group? I've barely managed to hit paper so far.

(Maybe you're confusing my 39A with my 336 since you're in both threads.
At least I'm getting "groups" with my 39A, even with the FTF problems on the 39.)

At least five shots last Wednesday never even hit the paper at 50 yds. Once, at the 25 yd station, I aimed at the left target and hit the right one (A windage adjustment helped that one, but the elevation issue remains unsolved. By the time I got time to call XS today, they'd already gone for the weekend. (I'm two hours different than them.)

So, I'm still trying to learn how to drive this puppy. I'll be delighted with my first 8" groups at 50.
(At least I'll be on paper.) Yes, I aim (so to speak) for 3" groups at 100, but I've got to walk before I run.

Quote:
My 336 would not shoot them at all unless you call 8" at 50 yards a group. The 170's really stunk.
One of the most interesting things I've learned on THR (out of, say, 43 most interesting things) is how different ammo can perform so differently. Even in the same make and model of gun, different ammo can have a huge effect on accuracy.

That's just very interesting. It's one reason I decided to have only a few guns (for me, now, that's five; it will max out around 7 or so) and know them well rather than 27 and not know them so well. At least with 5 - 7, I have enough time and money to experiment, to know what type of ammo they like, how they behave in terms of trajectory, little quirks of the gun, etc. I want to be very knowledgeable and skilled with a few rather than somewhat so with many.

Quote:
FWIW
Name your price. I'm learning here, and opinions are good.
Quote:
... all of my Marlins seem to like Hornady Ammunition and bullets.
Are you shooting the LeverEvolution stuff, or do they make other rnds?
________

Hmmm. Maybe it's about time to do some polling amongst ourselves about ammo ... poll coming up soon ...

Last edited by Nematocyst; March 31, 2007 at 03:29 AM. Reason: corrected typos; improved readability
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Old March 31, 2007, 08:36 AM   #256
Z_Infidel
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Nem, I think I mentioned this before but it may have been lost in the myriad of posts. XS makes a front ramp base that uses just a single screw that actually gets threaded into the hole in the barrel, plus an additional screw that is to be tightened against the barrel. They call it the "universal" front sight base or something like that. I am using one on my 336XLR because the distance between the holes doesn't match that on the 336C. When I told them about the problem they shipped the universal version to me right away and I sent the original one back to them in an envelope they supplied. This might be the right option for you as well. If you decide to try this approach and also explain your elevation issue to them, they should be able to correct both problems with one new part.
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Old March 31, 2007, 06:46 PM   #257
Nematocyst
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Z, that's very useful info. Thanks. (I don't remember it from before in the thread, but it may be back there.)

I'll definitely raise this issue when I call XS on Monday.

There's one part I don't completely understand here ...

Quote:
plus an additional screw that is to be tightened against the barrel.
Hmmm. I wonder if this is what I have.

But what is the purpose of that second one?

(Warning: biologist trying to understand engineering principle! )

If you just tighten it against the barrel, wouldn't that tend to put a leverage stress on the other attachment?
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Old March 31, 2007, 08:28 PM   #258
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Quote:
If you just tighten it against the barrel, wouldn't that tend to put a leverage stress on the other attachment?
Talk to XS, they'll explain the whole thing. It works nicely on my XLR. The red locking compound they send with the sights is probably essential with this setup. I know for sure the sight is very secure on my barrel. In fact, if you were to see how the sight is designed you would probably think to yourself "hey, that looks like it ought to work!".

The bright side is you may very well be only a phone call and a few days wait from having your ghost ring sights totally squared away.
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Old March 31, 2007, 08:54 PM   #259
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Quote:
The bright side is you may very well be only a phone call and a few days wait from having your ghost ring sights totally squared away.
That's my sense.

I got prompt, courteous service from XS when
I called to inquire about an ordering detail. Delivery was fast.

I expect the same this time.

Thanks for the encouragement, Z.
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Old April 1, 2007, 07:14 AM   #260
THE OUTPATIENT
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Love my 336...

Bought it a month ago, off the bench at 100 yards puts Winchester 170 grains into the 10 ring all day long...

I bought it for deer season in brush, and put tru-glo sites on it and had to give up the hood over the front site, may have a gunsmith rig a much broader hood up front just to keep the new site protected (they are a bit delicate).

Neat idea for a thread.

OP
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Old April 1, 2007, 03:12 PM   #261
Sniper X
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bought it! I'm OFFICIAL now!

I went to look at the 336C I had posted again yesterday. I had called and asked them to put it up for me and they said they would, but when I got there to pick it up a guy was LOOKING AT IT! ARRRGGGH! I thought I had missed out on another lever gun as the last time I tried to buy a cherry NIB commemerative Winchester in 30-30 that was a great deal, I hemmed and hawed about it for a day went back to buy it and wehn I got there a LUCKY GUY WAS WALKING IT TO THE COUNTER The guy who was looking at this one luckly put this one down and was looking at a Winchester right next to it on the shelf and I picked it up....thougherly checked it out and took it to the counter and made an offoer.


I offered 250 out the door and they said yes!!!

It is a Marlin 336RC in as new condition. I thought it had some blueing blemishes but they were finger prints and wiped right off...blueing perfect, stock as new...got a deal I think. Whe did they start putting cross bolt safeties on, as this one does not have any safety at\all. Oh, and it DOES have a golde trigger like the one on my Marlin Golden 39A.


Ill post some pics on Monday as I am at home on dial up since I live in the boonies!
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Old April 1, 2007, 03:33 PM   #262
Sniper X
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Google is MY freind!

Found this.

Marlin year of manufacture maybe determined from the following list of letter/numeral prefixs to the serial number:

1946-C
1947-D
1948-E
1949-F
1950-G
1951-H
1952-J
1953-K
1954-L
1955-M
1956-N
1957-P
1958-R
1959-S
1960-T
1961-U
1962-V
1963-W
1964-Y,-Z
1965-AA
1966-AB
1967-AC
1968-AD, -68
1969-69
1970-70
1971-71
1972-72

Starting in 1973, the year of manufacture maybe determined by subtracting the first two digits of the serial number from 100:
Example: SN 2512345 would have been made in 1975 [100 - 25 = 75].




my serial is AD 81XXX means this rifle was made in early 1968. And it is in perfect condition. WOW I think I lucked out!
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Old April 1, 2007, 06:36 PM   #263
electrode1998
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Way to to SniperX!!!
It sounds like a beauty not to mention a hell of a deal!!
I am looking forward to your pics.
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Old April 1, 2007, 06:38 PM   #264
Nematocyst
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I agree with E'trode, Sniper: you scored. Nice job.

Looking forward to images ...
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Old April 1, 2007, 06:41 PM   #265
electrode1998
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Smile Skinner sights!!!

Hey Nem,
Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your xs sights. Hope you get them worked out soon. I have heard nothing but good stuff bout them.
I am not gloating but I finally got to the indoor short range yesterday and at 25 yards (the range limit) the Skinner sights were VERY nice. I have to tell you even at that short range it took a little practice not to look at the target and look at the front blade. But when I did the results were enjoyable!!! I did not measure the groupings but I will try to do that next time.
Talk to you later,
E'trode
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Old April 1, 2007, 07:05 PM   #266
Sniper X
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Thanks guys! I have to agree it was a score. It has nice wood, and the very attractive white inserts in between the butt plate and the cap on the bottom of the grip. Also has an insert in the bottom of the stock where you would think a sling pivot would be but there is a nice little bullseye looking insert there plugging the hole where the sling swivel would be in a carbine with a sling attached.

Illpost up a few pics tomorrow.
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Old April 1, 2007, 07:07 PM   #267
Nematocyst
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Quote:
I am not gloating but ...
Hey, partner, you callin' me out to a target shootout?!



Glad to hear the Skinners are working out so well for you so early, E'trode. That's encouraging news. Please keep us posted and yes, lots of data a pics are great. We want to collect that kind of information in here.

Quote:
...it took a little practice not to look at the target and look at the front blade
I think that's going to be my single biggest challenge with these kinds of sights (v. a scope): getting a reliable focus on the front sight.

I can look at it - but with 50+ yr eyes (the only part of me so far <knocks wood> that isn't working as well now) - it's not what I'd call a "sharp" image.

I do practice (with unloaded rifle, double checked) aiming at objects (stumps, and old sign about the size of a deer torso, etc) in the sand lot next door (no people behind it in that direction). Their distances range from 20 yds to 100.

I'm practicing focusing (or trying to) on that front sight, and let the object blur out, but still keep awareness on where that blurred object needs to have the top of the front post sitting. (Of course, all this knowing I probably need a taller post, but I'm not shooting, just practicing the aim/point technique.)

So, I'm still uncertain if I can be accurate (especially out to 100 yds) with the GRs given that my focus on that front post is not as sharp as I might wish.

Any thoughts?
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Old April 1, 2007, 07:11 PM   #268
Nematocyst
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Quote:
Also has an insert in the bottom of the stock where you would think a sling pivot would be but there is a nice little bullseye looking insert there plugging the hole where the sling swivel would be in a carbine with a sling attached.
Sniper, take my words here with a big grain of salt until someone more knowledgeable comes along, but if I understand correctly, those little "bullseye" thingees on the furniture are NOT for sling studs.

I used to think the same thing; it seems so logical. But I read somewhere (some long lost thread in my bookmarks) that it's only some kind of decoration, and that they won't even hold a sling stud securely.

Can anyone confirm or deny that? Sources cited would be good too ...

Anyway, don't go drilling holes in your beautiful rifle yet until we clarify that.

Nem
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Old April 1, 2007, 07:56 PM   #269
electrode1998
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Talking

Hey Nem.
If I was in your neck of the woods we could see how both of us could miss the target. My eyes at almost 40 years old already have bifocals on them. Maybe that is why I am working with my scout scope when I can get to a longer range. I'll try to take and post some pics this week.
It is a little wierd focusing on the front sight and keeping an eye on what is downfield.
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Old April 1, 2007, 08:20 PM   #270
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Regarding the BULLSEYE on the bottom of Marlin stocks, Nem is exactly right. The bullseye is just something Marlin likes to put on their rifle stocks and is NOT intended as a reference for attaching a sling swivel. Don't drill there!

Back to ghost ring sights, with practice you can focus on the front sight post without losing the target. Your brain will learn to put the top of the post at exactly the point on the target you want to hit, all in a split second. Don't worry too much about letting the target become a blur -- that is more of an issue with handgun shooting. It's more important to make sure you don't look at the rear sight aperture, just through it. Remember, high-power shooters hit targets several hundred yards out using aperture sights, and the ones on a typical AR-style rifle are similar in function to the XS sights.

Nem, once you get your elevation dialed in and get some practice it will all come together. Well, probably...
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Old April 1, 2007, 08:29 PM   #271
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Oh no! No driling on this baby! I was just refering to the fact it is in the place you would see a factory attached sling swivel. Plus, This carbine is so light a sling isn;t really needed on it in my opinion. I am definitely going to leave this little beauty alone. Even if I do carry it on a hunt which I probaly will for feral piggies, I may make a back scabbard, of course lined with something that won;t scratch the gun!
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Old April 1, 2007, 08:48 PM   #272
Nematocyst
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Did someone say "back scabbard"?

Quote:
Nem, once you get your elevation dialed in and get some practice it will all come together. Well, probably...
I think you're right, Z. It's gonna take some practice. I picked up two more boxes of Federals (the cheaps stuff until I get the kinks worked out) this week in anticipation of my next range trip after getting the new post.

E'trode, I hear you on the scout scope. I'm virtually certain that eventually, I'm going to at least try one of those. I know that it's heretical in the minds of some to scope this rifle, but a scout scope is such a different beast. Seems like it could be a happy marriage.
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Old April 1, 2007, 08:52 PM   #273
Nematocyst
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A temporary leave of absence

336 gang,

This is going to be an extremely busy week for me.
I'm in charge of a very large project that's going to be culminating next Saturday.

I'll be checking in some this week, but less so as Saturday approaches.

The week after that will be another busy one (but less so than this one).
After that, I should be back to "normal" for a while. (What ever "normal" is ... )

So, if you folks will look after the "club house" while I'm out, it'd be great.

As long as you knock most of the mud off your boots at the door, boots on the coffee table are fine.

Drinks are in the fridge. .30-30 rnds are in the large wooden cabinet behind the couch. Help yourself.

Nem
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Old April 1, 2007, 09:13 PM   #274
hqmhqm
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I have a 94 winchester in .44 magnum, and was wondering if anyone who has shot one of those can compare the recoil to the .30-30 round?

I've never fired a .30-30 lever rifle. I have a 1894C in .357 magnum, which I find to be comfortable to shoot, but the .44 magnum is kind of painful.
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Old April 1, 2007, 11:27 PM   #275
jimrichter
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Hi

I posted this photo over at the 39A thread and thought I might as well post it here.

I love Marlins and love my '57 336RC. I don't shoot it as much as either of my 39's (a 52 39A and a 73 Mountie). However, it is getting some competition from my recently purchased .357 1894C. But it's a great gun to shoot and prefer it over the Winchester 30/30 my dad has given me (though of course that was also an early 70's Winchester).

The 336 is obviously the middle gun in the photo.

Jim

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...4&d=1175479861
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