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Old May 3, 2007, 11:45 AM   #451
Brassman
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Mo

Thanks for the info. about the plinking loads. Can you compare the quietness of this load to a .22 using CB longs (in my 39A they sound just like a pellet rifle)? I really would like to try your method, but I have to be careful about the loudness in my backyard. I shoot CB longs in the 39A all the time and nobody knows it's a .22 not an air rifle.
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Old May 4, 2007, 07:26 PM   #452
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CrackerJim. The Marbles tang sight is an excellent sight. I have several mounted on Marlins, an 1897 Cowboy for my wife, an 1894 Cowboy 44mag of mine and they are handy and very accurate. I tried one on a 1895 Cowboy and the way I gripped the stock, It chewed on my hand, I even took the sight apart and reversed the windage knob to the left side but it did not help much. Like I said it is a good sight, but is so bulky because of windage adj., I find I do not like it for the harder recoiling calibers. For milder cartridges it's my favorite.
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Old May 5, 2007, 02:27 AM   #453
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Well, another work week done.

(Actually, since I have to work weekends right now - new business - the next one begins tomorrow. I'll be at work both Saturday and Sunday (for weeks to come...) But at least the client presence pressure is off for Saturday and Sunday since I'm "closed" those days doing catch up work ... I'd sure rather be at the range ... )

As a result, I haven't been around my favorite thread much this week. I miss it. I am reading, with interest on every break I can afford. It's nice to take a few minutes break and read up on my favorite rifle.

My business has shifted gears. I've got three major projects that started up unexpectedly. They're a good thing for the business , but they're going to reduce the time that I have to spend in the club here significantly for a while . I'd hoped to be writing essays about 336 by now - sights, stock options (get it? "stock options" ), repair issues, etc. But the business must take precedence for a while. It'll slack off some by summer.

I'll be here as often as I can, learning new stuff. I'm reading everyday. But it's so great to see this thread floating all on it's own with such great minds asking fine questions that are being answered by quality knowledge. Keep up the great work, folks. This thread has only just begun. There's so much yet to write about this beautiful rifle.

Appsy and ZeSpectre, welcome. (Now we've got two "Z's": Z and Ze.)

Scrat, cool that you've got 336 in addition to '94. You can be our liaison to the realm of Winchester. I hope you (and other Winchester owners who also own 336) will offer us 336 owners an opinion of how they compare.

B'man, congrats on "senior member" status. "100" is a milestone. Here's to 1000.

Nem, who has been so busy that I still haven't contacted XS about getting a replacement front post, but who regularly pulls out the 336A for some admiration time ...
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Old May 5, 2007, 03:56 PM   #454
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I just thought of something for all of you Marlin fans. How many of you have seen the little cardboard, slide rule device they put out back in the early '60s for the popular cartridges then. It was nothing fancy, just displayed a close range zero then gave rise and fall of bullet at various ranges. I still have one that Dad got, out in my safe.
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Old May 5, 2007, 04:46 PM   #455
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That slide rule sounds handy. Anyone know where to get one?
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Old May 7, 2007, 09:33 AM   #456
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I still haven't found time to shoot mine yet. It's going on 2 months old and all I've been able to do is get it out and admire it. And my range is out in my back yard. Just too many other projects going on. But soon, very soon.
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Old May 7, 2007, 01:20 PM   #457
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gettin' there....

finally came up with the screws I needed to mount my scope...

336CS
Redfield one piece base
Burris standard rings
Burris Full Field II 3-9x40 scope

bore sighted and got close at 50 yds....

set about zeroing at 100 yds...

hung up new paper and pulled a 5 shot group at ~1.5" (off sand bags on the bench).

shooting hand loads....150 gr. Winchester bulk 150 gr. JFN, over 33.6gr. of W748 and a WLR primer.

Next trip out I'll see how my batch of 34.1 gr. loads stack up.

Then it's over to the 200 yd range to see if the BDR increments are good for this rifle/load combo.

Only problem is that the Medium rings are to high. I knew low rings were recommended, but I picked these up off e-bay cheap and the scope is destined to go on my "hopefully" soon to be first bolt action rifle later this summer. Once I have my best "accuracy" load worked up, I'll put a FoolProof on the 336 and after some practice, we'll be all set for Fall.
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Old May 7, 2007, 01:53 PM   #458
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Man do I like Lever guns, I guess it just appeals to the Little kid I once was, pretending to "Cowboy Up". I am not that great a shot or an expert on the lore/History of them. But I do know they have an appeal for most that can only be described as visceral. Even the non gun owners I know Romantacize a little when they see on of my Lever guns.
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Last edited by MrDig; May 8, 2007 at 01:39 PM.
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Old May 7, 2007, 10:04 PM   #459
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I got it, I got it! I now have a pretty little 336 (wound up it's an A model not a C model but it's NICE). Now I have to get some...ammunition. Darn I knew I forgot something today.
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Old May 8, 2007, 04:03 AM   #460
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Coming up for a breath from another week at work with no weekend break,
I'm glad to find this thread still intact, still generating useful information.

SSN, good news on scope progress.
Sounds like you're getting there.
I'm envious.

Even more, delighted
to find the kind of excitement about 336
that MDig and Ze offer up.

Ze, get some ammo
and go out and shoot that rifle.

Ah, life is good,
especially with a 336 nearby.

OK, back to work ...

I'll be back ...

Nem
________

Views for this thread = 13,751
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Old May 8, 2007, 12:08 PM   #461
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Nem, (aka Sting, I have both, but the Winnie is in .357 mag. I "had" a 30-30 Winchester 1895, carbine, Teddy Roosevelt commemerative and it shot well but was very hard to load,, very stiff. And the action was not in any way comparable to my 336RC in 30-30. Accuracy was about the same, the tie/win going to the 336RC in a slight way. If I rested both, the 336 is about 1/4in better at 50M...not bad. I also like the action TONS better on the 336 over the winchester in 30-30. Now the action on the .357 1894 W is great as it is a pistol cartridge, and short and SWEET! But I feel if I had a 336 in .357 it would be better than the Winchester chambered in that same cartridge! Maybe I am biased because I truely love the 336 and really like the Winchester!
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Old May 9, 2007, 08:38 AM   #462
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Sniper X, you might want to check out a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum. I had one for several years and it is a very handy and fun little carbine. Plus, the Marlin 1894 action was designed around pistol-caliber cartridges whereas the 336 action was designed around full-length rifle cartridges. A good friend of mine now owns the gun I had and couldn't be happier with it.
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Old May 9, 2007, 03:50 PM   #463
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Sniper, I'll echo what Z wrote. I also have a friend with an 1894C and have shot it. Very sweet, and quite accurate at 100. Loaded with .38 spl, it's about like shooting a .22.

I'm going to try not to buy one ...
(at least it's third down from the top of my list) ...
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Old May 9, 2007, 06:02 PM   #464
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GOin lever shootin again Sunday, and I have a new card for the camera that holds 999 pics at high rez! Ill have some pics this time!


Shoot, I think Ill hafta do another SAA - lever day, that was way too fun!
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Old May 9, 2007, 06:13 PM   #465
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Talking

Sniper X,
I am envinous!!!! I NEED to get to the local long range so I can sight in my scout scope properly and get some practice in. Hunting season will be sooner that I know it.
Have fun at the range!!!!
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Old May 9, 2007, 06:25 PM   #466
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Quote:
I have a new card for the camera that holds 999 pics at high rez
So we expect no fewer than 998 images upon your return.

(We'll allow one mistake... )

And like E'trode, I'm envious, too.
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Old May 9, 2007, 10:38 PM   #467
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Speaking of pictures, you should go over the the 39A club and look at the picture MchgnMike just posted of himself and his two little girls learning to shoot his Dad's 39A. Norman Rockwell couldn't have painted a nicer picture. Lift your levers high boys! & Girls too!
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Old May 10, 2007, 04:42 AM   #468
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So, in a few moments of boredom
(can't seem to bring myself to work right now,
even though I'm at work ... just as well that
I'm self-employed on nights like this ),
I've been thinking about the concept of "optimal gun".

Now, I'll own this up front:
there's no such thing as "optimal gun".

Everyone has their own:
.45 ACP pistol owners, shotgunners,
AK/AR owners, precision bolt guns ...
all claim "optimal".

In reality, as we all know,
the optimal gun is ...
it just depends.

It depends on the person, the circumstances, the gun ...

If I walk into my tool room, and tried to pick an "optimal tool", it'd be impossible, because the "optimal tool" would depend upon (among other things) do I want to drive, drill, cut, screw, measure .... If I had to pick an optimal tool, useful in any circumstance, as in I can have only one, the choice would be ... extremely difficult.

Yet, having said all that, given my tool kit
- 39A, 336A, 642, 686, 870
(1895 is not in the kit yet, only a goal) -
if I had to pick one, and only one, right now,
I'd choose the 336.

Why?

* It will take medium-sized game (deer etc), small game (with proper loading)
and even larger quadrupeds with proper shot placement and some luck.

* It will defend against invading bipeds.
(What burglar would want to face a 170 gr .30-30?)

* It's lighter than my 870P, as is the ammo needed to feed it for a year,
and has much more manageable recoil which promotes increased training.

* It's got far more umph than my 686 (let alone the 642).

* The 39A excels for squirrels, rabbits and plinking,
but won't fill the freezer as quickly with meat.

* My 870P's "shuck shuck" will make an average BG climb back out the window,
and increase the probability that the one that intends to do me harm won't.
(And I sleep better at night with it only a few feet away...)

But, having said all that, if someone told me tomorrow,
"You must choose one, and only one, gun from your collection
to carry from now to the end of your life ...
{and we all know that ain't gonna happen},
it'd be the 336.

Hands down.

Even though mine's not even fully broken in yet.

I'm glad I get to have the 870P nearby for bumps in the night.
I'm glad I've got the 642 for CC, and a 686 for wilderness handgun.
I'm honored to own a 39A.
I look forward to an 1895
(especially when I get to Alaska).

But if I could have only one where I live now,
I'd take the 336.

(I'll probably have to change that to the `895 once I get to AK...)

Just somethin' about the 336 ...

_________________________________

And then, in the next instant,
I reconsider and think ... 870P.

They look so good
standing side by side.

So, what to do?

I know: carry both,
and don't let anyone say that
I can have only one.


Molon labe


Last edited by Nematocyst; January 12, 2008 at 03:28 AM.
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Old May 10, 2007, 05:33 PM   #469
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Poetic explorations & more musings on optimal gun kits

PS: added by edit: This is long and wanders off into philosophy, even if 336 lays at the core. I'm a writer in part professionally, and I like to write essays. But I won't take offense if members skip it for now or even forever. If you're just here looking for 336 ammo advice, feel free to just skip this one. )
________

I'm laughing at myself a bit after reading my post above from last night.

Clearly, I was in poetry mode: late night near the end of a long day. Read one too many posts in L&P ( I really just need to stay out of L&P; just gets me agitated around issues of RKBA/2A ...).

Add to that I've been thinking a LOT about my tool kit lately, pleased with the way that it's shaped up, happy with 4 of 5 (I want my 4" 686 to magically turn into a 3" 686; other than that, no changes except modifications).

The evolution of my "optimal toolkit" is something that I can talk write about for hours. Don't get me started ... (Well, that'll be a fun post to write in the future; I'd love to bounce my reasoning for the development of this particular kit off of you folks...)

Where as I don't think there's any such thing as the optimal gun (e.g., one gun for every need), I do think that optimal gun kits are possible (i.e., a minimal set of guns meeting all the needs of an individual/group, especially those that need to be semi-nomadic, defined uniquely for each individual/group and capable of evolving over time).

In putting together this "kit" over the last two years, I've done a TON of reading on THR, including strategies and tactics and L&P, and have learned 10X more in those two years about guns, gun safety, legal issues, ethical issues ... than I learned in the last 48 years (since purchase of my first BB gun at age 8).

I've also reflected a LOT on issues of responsibility, safety, security, social context, the times we live in, my motivations for owning weapons (equal split between hunting & SD) ...

Sometimes, I find, it helps me to wax "poetic" (free verse) on such matters, to explore those uncomfortable waters on the edge between hunting (which I've done since I was kid, and enjoy ... no, revere the privilege) and using a gun in self-defense (which I truly hope I never have to do).

I've never served in the military, and am not LEO or anything. (Biologist with an artist's inclination and - sometimes - an indie rock musician's attitude.)

So, the sobering reality that I may someday need to use a weapon to take another person's life is ... well, grounding. I wrestle with the mind set necessary for such an unpleasant task.

Being a biologist with a strong appreciation for life, I find it challenging enough sometimes to pull the trigger on a squirrel (as delicious as they are, I confess I do find them "cute"). I've never killed a deer ... yet. (Motivation for reacquainting with a 336 ... I hope to change that this year...)

But the thought of taking a human life, whether with a .30-30, .357M or 12 ga ... well, that's just beyond my experience. I reflect on it often; not obsessively by any stretch, but I think in a healthy way.

Writing helps that.

And writing in a thread like this where we're mostly discussing a "deer rifle" as opposed to writing about it in some thread about AKs for HD, or over in shotguns in a ninja-pg-shotgun-for-zombies thread ... well, it's just a different experience for me. It allows me to reveal more of my mental meanderings to 336 club mates, and invite feedback about those issues from their perspective.

So what am I trying to say here? What's my point? Hmm, good question.

Sum it up: it's interesting that we've got 469 posts in 19 pages in one of the most viewed threads in rifle country currently, and we haven't discussed the issue of 336 used as SD. (Unless I missed a post somewhere.)

It seems to me that there's an underlying assumption that a thread about 336 is going to be about a hunting rifle. And indeed, it mostly should be. What's the statistic: more deer taken with .30-30 than any other (???) or all others combined or something. Yeah, the 336 has hunting deer written all over it.

But I rarely see discussions of its use for HD/SD. I don't think I've ever read a story about a human being shot (other than hunting accident) with one.

And I've even wondered recently: how many soldiers from any country in some war some where have carried a 336 or related rifle in battle?

So, such questions and musings are behind long, reflection essays like last night's, and even longer rambling musings about them on the following day.

I'd enjoy reading some thoughts on these issues by others.
_________

Thanks for hanging out here. Already feels like a bunch of friends, even if we've never met. (Maybe that'll change someday at some club shoot ... )

I'm betting we're all over the map in terms of politics, lifestyle, philosophy, spiritual perspectives, professional lives, etc. But I think it's totally cool how a great rifle - and assorted other guns - can bring such a diverse group of people that might argue like cats and dogs about other issues together as friends.

OK, now I really gotta go to work.

Nem
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Old May 10, 2007, 07:57 PM   #470
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At one time the Turks used one of the Winchester lever actions as a military rifle.I'm not sure of model or caliber, but I understand they enjoyed some success against the Russians with them. I saw one of them back in the early 70's in the Topki museum in Istanbul while stationed there in the AF.
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Old May 10, 2007, 11:06 PM   #471
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I gotta admit I keep my 870 (18" barrel/HD) by the bed with 5 rounds of 00 buck shot in the butt cuff. These are on the dresser and loaded 10 ft from the bed: a P3AT, a P11, and my sacred 642. My 336 is in the dining room by the china cabinet unloaded. I could see me loading the .30-30 and replacing the 870, but it's been there so long, I would hate to move it somewhere else. I am sure a bad guy would think twice before he made a move on someone in the dark who is audibly shucking a round into the chamber with the lever. I could envision me doing that....if I keep talking, that 870 may be replaced. If I didn't have the 870, I would feel perfectly safe with the 336.
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Old May 11, 2007, 10:30 PM   #472
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Finally a trip to the range

Okay I finally got some ammo and made a trip to the range. Sure enough the rifle had been roughly boresighted but I had to zero it in quite a bit.

This is the end result at 50 yards (the limit of the NRA indoor range). I have to say that for me this represents one of the best nights I've ever had at a range, especially the two double taps!


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Old May 11, 2007, 10:34 PM   #473
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A 336 would make a deadly self defense carbine, no doubt about it. Its repeating action can be worked quickly, good sights (I again recommend ghost ring type) make for fast target acquisition, and the .30-30 round would be simply devastating. My customized 336C would make an ideal defensive carbine, and that thought didn't escape me when I was defining the characteristics it would come to have at the hands of Mr. McPherson.

That said, I think there are better weapons for military use. This may be obvious, considering that no modern military deploys with lever action rifles. There are cases from documented history where lever guns were used in battle with good effect -- and I'm not surprised.

All said and done, I consider the 336 a very good all-purpose rifle/carbine. Excellent for hunting the game and fields it is most popular in, handy to carry and shoot, powerful cartridges, etc... The lever gun may not be the "best" at anything, but it is very good at lots of things.

And Ze: well done.
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Old May 12, 2007, 01:01 AM   #474
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Ze, great results. Congrats. Nice to hear you got 'er in so close on the first trip. I'm envious. Were you using all the same rnds for that? If so, what?

JKing, interesting historical point. B'man and Z, good points re defensive stuff and utility.
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Old May 12, 2007, 09:20 AM   #475
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Marlin 336 for defense

IMO, the Marlin 336 meets or exceeds the criteria for a defense arm:

1. It must be reliable. If a gun doesn't go BANG when you pull the trigger, it's useless. Yup, a 336 is reliable.

2. It must be sufficiently accurate to enable you to place your bullets. No problem here.

3. It must chamber a round with terminal ballistics that will probably stop the threat. .30-30 or .35 Remington will do this with few exceptions, assuming a good hit. Since they are loaded with JSPs or JHPs, either packs more of a wallop than 5.56 in any load, or FMJ loads for 7.62x39 or 7.62 NATO. (Obviously, expanding bullets in the 7.62x39 or 7.62 NATO change this equation.)

4. It must be affordable and available. Yup.

5. While a single shot weapon is better than a sharp stick, in 2007 there's no reason to settle for anything other than a repeater. You may have multiple assailants. Yup.

As for it being a manually-operated arm with a relatively low magazine capacity, it should not be an issue for the vast majority of civilian defensive gun usage. If you as a homeowner get into a running gun fight with a horde of zombies, you are probably going to buy it even if you have an AR15 or AK47. The Marlin holds as many rounds as many defense shotguns and can be topped off while keeping it ready to fire.

The Marlin 336 has excellent ergonomics for both southpaws and you weird right handers.

My main concern with a 336 is that .30-30 or .35 Remington will really over penetrate in an urban/suburban environment, even if you hit a perp a pass through is not unlikely. Since I live in the 'burbs, were I setting up mine I'd get a hold of some Remington or Federal 125 grain JHP .30-30s, to minimize this. Better yet, if I was buying a levergun specifically for HD, I'd get a Marlin or Rossi in .357 Magnum. If I was out in the country this wouldn't be so much of a concern.

Let me pre-emptively address the "PC" factor, since someone is likely to bring it up and claim that using a levergun instead of an evil AK47 will make you look better in court. There is NO SUCH THING as a PC firearm. The gun banners want ALL of them. Any competent prosecuting attorney can use ANY choice of firearm to make you look bad. So make sure it's a good shoot.
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