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Old July 29, 2007, 04:26 AM   #776
Nematocyst
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TehK1w1,

Welcome in.

I'll let other members answer your questions.
My guess is either B or D.

Right now, I'd rather face a wounded pig than what I got going on.
(See my next post.)
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Old July 29, 2007, 04:55 AM   #777
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Disassembly of a 336

OK, I'll admit I'm in over my head.

Not sure what I was thinking, but decided to try the Marlin Lever Action Tune up described on this page.

So far, I've made it through the third section, after "tools and equipment" and "inspection".
I'm now finished with "Dissassembly" [sic: disassembly].

I got it apart, but it took twice as long as it should have because in several places,
I had to guess at how to accomplish a particular step because the directions were ... not quite adequate in spots.

So, I feel compelled offer this critique. The article is a service to lever action owners, and I appreciate the efforts and contributions of the author and his staff. I found it to be accurate even if a bit short on description at crux spots in the procedure. An extra hint or two in the right places would speed things up and leave less to guess work. (That's what I've tried to add below, based on my own experience and notes that I wrote as I performed the procedure.)

IMO, like anyone attempting to describe technical procedures, the author - already an effective writer - could benefit from a class in technical writing (I've had several in my days), and/or at least a good editor to push the idea of additional clarifications. Nuff said. I'm glad he wrote it.

{Added by edit two days later: I've changed my mind. After working all the way through this set of instructions, I think that overall, it's nicely done. It was unfortunate that the paragraph on disassembly had a few rough spots, because that was the first one I dove into on day one of this project. But all the other sections went quite smoothly, with clear directions and good tips. I'll still leave my suggested edits for that first paragraph below. Hopefully they'll be useful to others, and perhaps even the author if he chooses to incorporate them. }

However, since no editing has been forthcoming on the original page since 3/4/03, I will suggest some editorial updates for his original directions based on my experience. (See below; please feel free to make corrections and suggestions for improved clarity.) I hope that if the author finds this, he will accept it as a positive contribution to his helpful original.

OK, first, here's what my 336 looks like after that section on disassembly.



OK, now to a suggested edit of the disassembly instructions, before I forget. In the original draft of this post, I reposted the entire first paragraph of the original document. I've now revised this to ONLY include the statements that I've added a clarification for.

Remove the rear tang screw and slide the stock of the rear off the action. [The stock may need to be pried off with a screw driver since it may not "slide" off. (Mine was stuck.) Care should be taken to not damage the stock while prying.]

<snip>

Remove the hammer spring by sliding the hammer spring plate to the left side and then remove the hammer spring. Push the hammer spring plate, #39, from the right side near the top of the plate until it slides out, releasing the spring.]

Remove the hammer pivot screw and remove the hammer through the clearance slot by rotating it upward. [The trick is that the trigger must be pulled back to release the hammer.]

Turn the rifle over and remove the trigger guard plate support screw [73] from the left side of the action.

Then remove the trigger guard plate screw [72] from the bottom. This is the screw just in front of the carrier leg slot. Note that this screw is longer than the previous screw.[In my 336, 72 is shorter than 73. I wonder if the relative lengths are different in the 1894.]

Lift up on the lower tang and remove the trigger guard plate. [After lifting up on the lower tang, the trigger guard plate assembly may have to be hammered from the rear point of the lower tang with a rubber hammer for removal. It seems to pivot on pin 71, which prevents easy removal.]

<snip>

Remove the carrier screw from the right side of the action. [Note: this is the screw immediately in front of the cross bolt safety.] The carrier will now fall out of the bottom of the action.

There is no need to remove the loading gate screw. [That screw is 1" in front of the carrier screw, and smaller than the latter.] <snip>
____________

OK, boys and girls, tomorrow, I'll try to follow the directions for the tune up itself.

I may need some help getting this back together again.

I'll keep you posted.

Nem, who just earned his novice gunsmith-in-training certificate
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Last edited by Nematocyst; July 31, 2007 at 05:18 PM. Reason: progressively shedding some frustration experienced before writing draft 1 & practicing what I suggest: editing
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Old July 29, 2007, 10:18 PM   #778
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Here's the Sunday afternoon layout on the work bench.

To this image, I added the locking bolt (47), which in last night's photo was up in the receiver (I was trying to understand where it fit and what it does), some 400 and 600 grit sandpaper, a magnifying glass (helps when examining surfaces for burrs and such), and a little screw driver (since the one that size in my brand new set of smith drivers broke a tip last night).

{Added by edit: Oops. Left out the carrier. I had put it, too, up in the receiver trying to understand relationships between these parts. I may have to put it back together again to lever it again now that I know what the parts are, to try to understand how they articulate. I'm having a little trouble seeing which surfaces to buff, which surfaces actually articulate with other surfaces. I know I've cycled it dry a few hundred times, but the "burnish marks" still aren't very apparent to me; perhaps to a more trained eye ...}

I also added one @ of three kinds of rnds, just to make it look like a real gun picture ... and to hopefully help me understand why new rnds jam up when moving from the carrier into the chamber, effectively stopping the action cycle: a failure to feed.

We discussed that much earlier in this thread; IIRC, it may be a function of the sharp edge on the breach end of the chamber that's catching a crimp edge of the cartridge below the bullet, which seems to start in fine, but then hangs.

OK, I just had dinner, and I'm ready to take the next step.

<swallows pensively ... >

Wish me luck.

PS: there was an editor involved in the writing of the original set of directions that I'm using.
I just found (again) an "editor's note" in the "lever" section. I'm hoping it's going to read very clearly ...

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Last edited by Nematocyst; July 29, 2007 at 10:47 PM. Reason: left out a part
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Old July 29, 2007, 11:43 PM   #779
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Nem,
Just remember that the locking bolt (47) sets your headspace. DO NOT MESS WITH IT!

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Old July 30, 2007, 01:01 AM   #780
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Ze, thanks for those suggestions.

Unfortunately, I did polish the locking bolt (before I read your caveat not to), but did so only very, very gently with 600 grit paper as per the author's directive, so hopefully it's OK. (At least anyone after me reading this will know not to.)

I'll pick up some lithium grease tomorrow for the lever end and locking bolt (any particular part of the latter or all of it?).

The lever end is already a lot smoother from polishing. Again, didn't remove any metal there, but did polish, first with 400, then with 600.

Thanks also for the help with where to polish the hammer and hammer strut. Wasn't completely clear on that part.

Also, what do you think of the author's directive to remove 3/4 of a coil from each end of the hammer spring? OK? I'm going to wait until I get some feedback on that part since it's a pretty substantial move. I can get to a grinder tomorrow, anyway, which he recommends.

Finally, I'm happy to report that I'm now through the second page, through the bolt polishing, and the directions became notably more clear, and included several really nice little tips to make things more clear. Even working with the finger lever plunger - which started out sort of dicey - turned out to be really easy. I thought its re-installation would be a dog, but it was very easy.

Thanks for the tips. Keep 'em coming. I'm reading and going slow.

Nem
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Old July 30, 2007, 01:18 AM   #781
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Lithium grease

I just checked the grease I use to lube and protect my fifth wheel hitch.

Will this work ... er, no wait: is it the best for my baby or do you recommend something else?

Mystik Disc Brake Wheel Bearing Grease, described on the container as "a superior Lithium Complex multi-purpose grease with outstanding performance over a wide range of operating temperatures ... suitable for use in a wide variety of conditions found in industry, farming or automotive applications. Contains Petroleum Hydrocarbon lubricant and organometallic zinc."

PS: after reading this, I'm guessing what I've got is not "white" lithium grease. Will seek tomorrow.
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Old July 30, 2007, 06:13 AM   #782
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Nem,
If all you did to the locking lug was a very light touch of smoothing it's probably fine. As noted it sets the headspace for the gun so I try very hard to steer people away from messing with it.

I'm not personally a fan of removing coils from springs. They make the factory spring far heavier than necessary to ensure that each trigger pull gets a BANG and if you lighten it too much you may get misfires. Rather than lightening the factory spring I would recommend that you buy an aftermarket from Brownells (mfd by Wolff, costs about $9.00). It'll save you the hassle of grinding down the stock spring and you still HAVE the stock spring if you ever get tough primers that don't want to go off.

That was a good article on using white lithium grease on automobiles, I've bookmarked it for future reference.
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Old July 30, 2007, 06:49 AM   #783
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anyone ever try monarch soft point ammo? they sell them here at academy for $9/20rnds.
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Old July 30, 2007, 10:09 AM   #784
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New 336 owner here. Great thread.

In one of the websites noted in Nem's post above it talks about the "Marlin Jam" and the fix (which involves welding and such).

Any reason I should be concerned by this? Or is this just for the model 1894. Gun cycles fine right now.

Thanks.
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Old July 30, 2007, 11:44 AM   #785
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The "Marlin Jam" tends to show up in model 1894 guns used for Cowboy Action Shooting but that's because CAS shooters tend to tune and run the equipment right up to (and sometimes over) the ragged edge of the performance envelope.

In addition to the extra stress caused by the "fast as you can go" shooting, it's not at all unusual for CAS shooters to put 1,000-3,000 rounds through their rifles every year.

That's a lot of shootin' for a rifle and tends to cause wear that a "normal" shooter would never even begin to see over the "normal" lifespan of a rifle so for the 336 you'll probably never see it come up as an issue.
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Old July 30, 2007, 04:17 PM   #786
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YX, on the Monarch ammo, here's a thread about it from a year or so ago. It doesn't look like any concensus was reached, but we could probably bump it.

WiscTJK (Wisc or TJK?), welcome in. Glad you asked that question; it's one that I was going to post today.

Ze, nice explanation of that, relevant for me since my 1894C is on the way. (Have I mentioned how excited I am?)

Thanks also for your opinion on cutting, or as it turns out, not cutting the mainspring. I think I'm going to go with my intuition and your opinion and leave it alone.

I understand now what the potential disadvantage to cutting it is - potential light strikes - but I'm actually not sure what the purported advantage is. What would buying that Wolff replacement gain (or for those bolder than me, cutting the original)? Easier hammer pull? I actually like the feel of this one in that regard.

I do have a question about "jam", or really, failure to feed in my 336. I searched back through this thread last night thinking that we covered it once, but haven't found it so far, so I'll probably ask it again now where it'll be concurrent with this set of posts on the tune up.

I'll compose a separate post for it shortly ... just got to work on a Monday, putting out brushfires at the moment.

Nem
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Old July 30, 2007, 04:50 PM   #787
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I don't have a 336, yet, but I'm gonna be trying to get one very soon though. However I have some questions.

What's a decent price for a somewhat used 336A with scope? One I'm looking at has a bid of $250, plus $25 shipping?
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Old July 30, 2007, 06:15 PM   #788
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Reddbecca:

1) do you have a sense of the overall condition of the gun?

2) do you know what scope it has on it?

In any case, in my limited experience, if the rifle is in good shape, that's not bad for a used 336A.

However, there are others in the club that are FAR better qualified than me to offer you advice on this.
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Old July 30, 2007, 06:34 PM   #789
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Quote:
1) do you have a sense of the overall condition of the gun?

2) do you know what scope it has on it?
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8105489
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Old July 30, 2007, 07:07 PM   #790
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Well, I don't know, Redd, but from where I'm sittin',
that looks like a fine deal. Cosmetically, it looks great.
It'd be nice to be able to work the action.

Have you asked the seller about it?
If it were me, I'd ask:

* how old is it?
* about how many rnds has it had through it?
* how's the action?
* ever been repaired or modified?
* are there any problems with it that s/he knows of?
* why is s/he selling it?

If I felt satisfied with all the answers, I'd probably bid on it (if I was in the market for another one, which I'm not).

But again, take my advice with a dab of lithium grease since I'm still a sub-novice, especially when it comes to buying used guns.
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Old July 30, 2007, 11:05 PM   #791
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So, I got the white lithium grease. A small tube (1.5 fl. oz) of Permatex White Lithium Grease at Autozone for $2.

Now, since I'm leaving that mainspring alone - at least for now - I've got one more task before re-assembly: to deal with my failure to feed issue.

Quote:
I do have a question about "jam", or really, failure to feed in my 336. I searched back through this thread last night thinking that we covered it once, but haven't found it so far, so I'll probably ask it again now where it'll be concurrent with this set of posts on the tune up.
Here's the deal.

During three trips to the range, at least two or three times on each trip, when levering a new round into the chamber, the round hung up just as it was being pushed into the chamber from the carrier.

Ostensibly, no problem with the carrier; it seems to lift fine.

The problem comes when the crimp (of the brass around the bullet) of the new rnd
hangs up on the sharp edge of the chamber.

Doesn't seem to be rnd dependent. Happens just as much with Remington, Federal and Hornady.
When it hits that crimp lip (for lack of a better term), it just stops.

It does happen more if the rifle is tilted up slightly (which I do sometimes when levering slowly).

If I rock the lever a bit, maybe change the angle of the tilt, the rnd slides on in.

But this is not something I want to live with, so I'm looking for the fix.

My guess (or is it a logical analysis?) is, if I wrap a small square of that 400 grit paper around some rounded object (not sure what yet) that's slightly larger than the chamber opening, and rotate that around in the chamber aperture a bit, I could take the edge off just enough - bevel it a bit - to let that crimp edge slide on it without catching.

Just a smidgen, a hair, a few thousandths or so.

So, I'm gonna head down to the work room and look for something with a rounded end that's the right size.

If anybody has a different solution in mind, I'd appreciate hearing it.

Nem
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Old July 30, 2007, 11:43 PM   #792
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Quote:
My guess (or is it a logical analysis?) is, if I wrap a small square of that 400 grit paper around some rounded object (not sure what yet) that's slightly larger than the chamber opening, and rotate that around in the chamber aperture a bit, I could take the edge off just enough - bevel it a bit - to let that crimp edge slide on it without catching.
Hmmm. Easier said than done.

I found several object the right size, but they all just spin inside (on the smooth edge of) the paper.

Obviously, some ideas are better than others;
that one may be heading for the trash bin.

Hmmm.
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Old July 31, 2007, 05:34 PM   #793
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Hmmm.

"Hello? Anyone in the clubhouse?"

Seems pretty empty in here. It ain't hunting season yet, so everybody must be out at the range.

Still trying to decide what to do that might smooth up the entry of new cartridges into the chamber. No new ideas have occurred to me. I'm thinking I may just put it back together and see if the general polishing helped that issue at all. I don't think there's anyway I'm going to be able to slightly bevel that chamber edge with the tools and skills I've got. I'm just too limited. That may be a gunsmith job. Since I'm going to take it next to my smith to have a recoil pad on it, if it's still sticking when I get it back together, I'll just ask him to address that as well.

Oh, speaking of the "tuning lever action" directions: after working through all of it, I like it. It was that first paragraph with a few rough spots that threw me at first. The rest of it was pretty nicely done.

(Of course, I haven't put it back together again yet.
Trying to get heat control window film up on my studio's south windows this week;
August is here and it's

Anyway, I added this paragraph to my post 777.

Quote:
{Added by edit two days later: I've changed my mind. After working all the way through this set of instructions, I think that overall, it's nicely done. It was unfortunate that the paragraph on disassembly had a few rough spots, because that was the first one I dove into on day one of this project. But all the other sections went quite smoothly, with clear directions and good tips. I'll still leave my suggested edits for that first paragraph below. Hopefully they'll be useful to others, and perhaps even the author if he chooses to incorporate them. }
BTW, my XS scout scope mount arrived.

OK, window film calls ...

Nem
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Old July 31, 2007, 07:49 PM   #794
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It has been suggested to me that the FTF may be caused by a sharp edge on the extractor that is grabbing the case head instead of sliding over it.

The suggested solution is to "use a small points file to file the back side of the extractor and slightly round the edges of the bottom of the extractor."

I'm trying to make sure which edge of the extractor may be problematic.

Sorry for the poor image quality; my digcam doesn't do close ups.

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Old July 31, 2007, 09:31 PM   #795
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Nem,
I've been down sick with a DOUBLE ear infection <super BLECH!>.
Your FTF issue is really weird for a bottlenecked cartridge. I would suggest you do NOT try to file or smooth the inside or edges of the chamber, too much potential for mistakes there. If it really is the chamber (reamed out incorrectly or such) then that is an issue for the famous Marlin Warranty to take care of!

As for your extractor hanging up, never seen such a thing but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Sorry I'm not much more help with this one, I'd have to see the rifle in person I think.
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Old August 1, 2007, 01:39 AM   #796
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Ze,

Sorry to hear you're under the weather. Take good care with those infected ears. There's a lot of sensitive anatomy in there (says the biologist and former human anatomy and physiology instructor), so treat it well.

Here's a thread I started over on Marlin Owners Forum about this issue. There's been a couple of suggestions so far. I did radius the bottom inside edge of the extractor just a tiny bit. Not sure where else to go from here.

I'm going to put it back together when I get a bit more time and see if it still hangs up after the tune up.

If it still hangs, I'll probably either call Marlin or take it over to my gunsmith.

Thanks for your on-going help.

Get well soon.

Nem
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Old August 1, 2007, 05:31 PM   #797
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Nem, what kind of glass do you have for your 336?
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Old August 1, 2007, 05:51 PM   #798
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Hey Matt,

Even though I've already got a scope mount - that XS scout scope mount I mentioned above - I have no glass yet.

My goal is to try a Leupold FX-II 2.5X28 Scout Scope.

I'm hoping to put one on it soon if my finances hold up. (Summer is a very slow business time for me, hence I'm working on the 336 tune up, etc, now.)

I've never used a scout scope before. I'm taking a chance here because it seems to be a reasonable option, given my needs/goals for this gun. I want something faster than a traditional scope, and mounted forward to allow carry by the receiver, but with more magnification than GR's or peep sights since my eyes aren't getting any better with age. I don't have confidence in GR's past about 100 yds, but want to use the Hornady LE stuff to reach out further.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems that people either love or hate the scout scope.

If that doesn't work out, I'm not sure what I'll do.

You got something in mind for a 336, or do you already have a scope mounted on one?

Nem
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Old August 1, 2007, 07:30 PM   #799
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Nem,

It is TJK in Wisc....onsin.

Pretty original I know. Love the thread.

TJK
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Old August 2, 2007, 04:24 AM   #800
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TJK,

Easy keystrokes there.

Glad you're finding value here.
Great bunch of folks in this club house.

Nem, whose 336 is still in pieces on the workbench;
been spending all my time this week making modifications
to the studio to try to cool it down now that summer has hit OR.
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