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Old August 2, 2007, 04:36 PM   #801
Matt King
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Nem,

I have heard good things about the Leupold 2.5x Scout scope. I know that Preacherman has had good luck with his. MidwayUSA has them for about $260.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=411427

Hope that helps.
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Old August 2, 2007, 04:46 PM   #802
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Matt, thanks for that Midway link.

I'm also finding them at Optics Planet for about the same price.

And I'll have to search for Preacherman's comments about his. I respect his experiences and opinions,
and would love to read more about his views on this scope.
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Old August 2, 2007, 04:53 PM   #803
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Nem,

Here is the Preacherman quote:
Quote:
I've set up a Marlin 336 with the Express Sights forward scope mount (see here) and a Leupold 2.5x Scout scope. Very fast target acquisition, and within the effective range of the cartridge, it's all you need.
From this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ight=336+scope

Hope that helps.
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Old August 2, 2007, 04:55 PM   #804
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Here is another Preacherman thread with good info:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ight=336+scope

"In praise of the good old .30-30"
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Old August 2, 2007, 07:01 PM   #805
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Matt, those two threads are worth reading.

First one is short, but has this additional quote from P'man:

Quote:
By the way, don't believe those folks who tell you that with the low power and long eye relief of a Scout scope, you can't hit anything at any reasonable distance... I've made shots at well over 200 yards with this type of scope, on a .308, and found it no trouble at all.
Nice.

I also just read that other thread - In praise of the good ol' .30-30 - from start to fin. Definitely worth a read for anybody in the club house. I've bookmarked it.

Here's my favorite line in it by our friend Iggy:

Quote:
The trick with all the old timers is to learn the rifle, not to keep adding gimmicks and trying to make it something it isn't..
That part about "learn the rifle" is sooo important in my book. It's one reason I've decide to focus on just a few guns - four of them Marlin levers - so I can learn them inside and out.
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Old August 2, 2007, 07:20 PM   #806
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I've got a 336CS in 35 Rem.
It was abused and ugly when I bought it around twenty years ago, and it still puts a deer in the freezer whenever it's called on.
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Old August 3, 2007, 09:42 PM   #807
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whats the difference between the 30aw and the 336 a or w
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Old August 3, 2007, 11:53 PM   #808
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Reassembly of a 336: Houston, I have a problem

So, I finished with the polishing routine, and am trying to reassemble my 336.

As directed, I followed the disassembly directions in reverse. (I even wrote them out in reverse, with notes to myself about this and that that may have to be done in order to reassemble. E.g., trigger must be pulled back at one stage, etc.)

Everything went in seemingly smoothly. No left over parts. Slide stock back on, put in ejector, slide the bolt in and ... hit a wall.

I can't get the lever installed. I've worked on it for the better part of an hour now, but it won't fit properly.

If I insert the bolt to within 1" of closure, I can slide the lever up past the carrier, with its end fitting into the appropriate vertical slot on the bolt - such that when I work the lever a bit, it's clearly engaging with and moving the bolt.

But, the lever will not reinstall in a way that I can get the lever screw inserted.

I can almost get it to close without the screw inserted, but not quite. The holes for the screw in the lever and the receiver just won't line up.

Furthermore, as the lever is trying to close (again, without the screw inserted), the L-shaped piece on the lever that sits right in front of the trigger hits the locking bolt.

Ack. I don't want to take it back apart again, but I may have to. Something's not right here.

OK, I'm going to take a break and eat dinner. If any of you get this SOS, and have a suggestion, please sling it this way.

Nem
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Old August 4, 2007, 03:06 AM   #809
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Quote:
Ack. I don't want to take it back apart again, but I may have to.
Ok, too late. I already disassembled it again. (Took me five minutes the second time. I'm getting faster.)

I still see no problem. But ...

Quote:
Furthermore, as the lever is trying to close (again, without the screw inserted), the L-shaped piece on the lever that sits right in front of the trigger hits the locking bolt.
In experimenting a bit, I realize that's what it's supposed to do. I understand now that when the closing lever hits the locking bolt, it - the locking bolt - slides up into the appropriate rear slot in the bolt to lock it in place.

Here's the latest report:

I've taken it apart again - all the way down to the point that the carrier is the only thing left in the receiver. I then put back in the locking bolt, add the ejector and bolt, then lay the trigger guard plate in place, and try to put the lever in. It exhibits the same behavior: lever goes in and engages with the bolt, but will not close, and the holes for the lever screw will not line up.

Yet, I still can see nothing preventing the lever from fitting.

I'm spent with this for the day. I'll try again tomorrow after some rest.

Nem
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Old August 4, 2007, 07:33 AM   #810
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How far forward is the bolt? Sounds like you have it too far forward.

If the bolt is far enough forward where the locking lug is "locked" then you are too far forward and the lever won't fit all the way in.

When you go to put the lever into it's slot in the bolt the lever should be at about a 45 degree angle to the gun. Then you put the lever screw in and THEN you close the bolt (with the lever). It's something you get a feel for after you've done it a few times. Don't try to force anything, it either goes in easy or not at all.
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Old August 4, 2007, 08:08 AM   #811
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I am glad I found this thread, I have a marlin 30-30,when I got all my grandfather guns when he passed. He is the one that taought me about firearms, and this marlin was his favorite go to gun. Mine was always my rem 7400 30-06 Semi auto. But now slowly the marlin has moved to the top of my list, something about throwing that lever to chamber the round. I get all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it, I think I'll go pop some caps today
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Old August 4, 2007, 05:05 PM   #812
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Ze, thanks for your suggestion ... again.
(You've been super-helpful in this process. I need to send you a box of .30-30's for your help.)

I've solved it now.

And in the process, I've learned that I made a mistake in my post #777 on page 32.

Specifically, this:
Quote:
Then remove the trigger guard plate screw [72] from the bottom. This is the screw just in front of the carrier leg slot. Note that this screw is longer than the previous screw.[In my 336, 72 is shorter than 73. I wonder if the relative lengths are different in the 1894.]
I was wrong about those screws. The original directions were correct: 72 IS longer than 73.

(I've asked a moderator to add an editorial comment for me after that statement in post 777 - because the edit window has closed on that post - to hopefully prevent someone else from making the same mistake that I did.)

I could have sworn that when I took those screws out during disassembly the first time, the trigger plate guard screw (72; on the under side of the trigger guard plate) was shorter. But the trigger plate guard support screw (73; on the left side) is the shorter.

Thus, when I put 72 in the hole (on the left side) for 73, it was sticking through into the side of the action, blocking the lever from a proper fit.

This morning, when examining more closely, I saw that screw sticking through in the path of the lever and it clicked.

I switched them, and everything is fine.

I guess I learned a hard lesson there. But the good news is, in the process of trouble shooting it, I learned a TON about what's really going on inside the action. I took a close look at all the parts, their relationships, how they were articulating, etc.

So, aside from the trouble I caused you asking for help - sorry about that - it was worth it for me.

I also learned that these things are better dealt with AFTER sleep - with a refreshed mind offering clear thinking - rather than before (as in after work).

I'm still evaluating the effect of the tuning procedure. The action is definitely smoother, but I'm going to need to work it a bit more before I decide if I'm happy with it entirely.

The FTF issue is better, but not entirely solved. I cycled it about 10 times with rnds (cross bolt safety on), and one hung up. While I had the trigger guard plate dropped, I used a bit of emery cloth taped to a Bic pen and smoothed the bottom of the chamber lip a bit.

It clearly helped, because before, probably 5 of 10 would have hung up. Now, only 1 of 10 did. I noticed that problem IS being caused by the front lip of the brass (at the bullet crimp) catching on that chamber edge. So, I may have to take it down again and do a bit more smoothing on that chamber edge.

At least now, I can take the gun all the way down to removing the carrier (last step) in less than 10 minutes, and can probably reassemble it in about the same time.

I'll update again on the FTF problem as I continue to make progress with it.

Again, thanks for your help on this. Hope the story is useful to others who attempt the tuning procedure.

Nem

PS: I took notes during the reassembly process, including a few tips that were not in the original directions that were useful during reassembly. I'll write them up and post here in a few days.
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Last edited by Nematocyst; August 4, 2007 at 05:50 PM.
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Old August 4, 2007, 05:18 PM   #813
Houston Tom
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that is good information
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Old August 4, 2007, 05:55 PM   #814
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Havanatrader and Houston Tom, welcome in.

Sorry for the slow welcome. I've been somewhat preoccupied.

We hope to see pics of your guns. (Not required, but strongly hoped for.)

And yeah, Tom, I know what you mean about the lever action. In the last few decades, and increasingly in the last couple of years, I've researched and tried out semi-autos, bolts, pumps and levers.

But now, I've moved exclusively to levers - at least for rifles.

Just something about them ...

P'balldude, I'm not sure about that 30AW v 336 A and W, but someone in here will know.
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Old August 4, 2007, 10:07 PM   #815
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Please add me to the Club!

Nematocyst,

Thanks for such an excellent thread. Please add me to the 336 club. Also, I sent you a PM of some interest.

Swamper
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Old August 5, 2007, 12:55 AM   #816
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Swamper, welcome in.

Great to hear from you again, my friend. Glad you're here. I've responded to your PM.

OK, we're going to need to see pics of that shortened 336 that you mentioned in your PM,
just for quality control purposes, you understand.

I want one of those eventually, though I suspect my current one is going to stay full length.

As for the "excellent thread", glad you're finding something of value here.
But I only started it. All these folks on the roster that post here make it excellent.
Now, you can add to that!

Nem
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Old August 5, 2007, 09:40 AM   #817
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30 AW vs.336 A or W

Hey Paintball,
I did a little looking for you about the differences between the models and from what I can find out on a limited basis the 30 AW is a "big-box" store version of the 336. I am no expert by any means but it looks to be similar to the current 336 W.

The main visual difference is the front bead sight without the hood. Other than that it has a reputation like many 336's of being a solid, dependable, deer rifle.

I don't know how to access the archives of THR while on THR but there is a posting dated 2/18/2003 by DJJ that gets some answers from member GooseGestapo about the differences.

Hope this helps you out and maybe someone knows how to acces the archive. I found it in a google search.

e'trode.
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Old August 5, 2007, 11:03 AM   #818
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Nematocyst,

I will see if I can get a photo downloand and figure out how to post it. I am torn on my next hunting rifle (not that I will get a chance to use it for awhile, but Initally I was leaning toward a left handed bolt in a 300 but more and more I am leaning toward a lever in 45-70
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Old August 5, 2007, 02:22 PM   #819
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Add me to the 336 Club. I just picked up a 336 CS in 30-30 yesterday. it is like new, Owner had it for 9 years and only shot it once.

Got it for $200 bux. I'm very pleaded with that.. once in a while I get a good deal...
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Old August 5, 2007, 02:36 PM   #820
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Nem: glad you solved the issue with your reassembly.

Swamper: shortened 336, eh? I've got one of those...

Anyway, so I took the XLR to the range on Saturday and to my surprise ended up taking the scope off in favor of the irons. The scope is a nice one, a Leupold VXII 1-4X20, but at 100 yards I was getting about the same groups with the irons as with the scope and I like the handling qualities of a lever gun without the scope -- so off it came.

Now I have the factory irons set up to shoot a couple of inches high at 100 yards with LeverEvolution ammo, and the rifle is a joy to shoot. With my 336C set up with XS Ghost Ring sights to cover sub-100yd ranges, the XLR for anything out to about 150-175 yards with the irons and my scoped .30-06 bolt gun I still have everything pretty well covered (except a big-bore which will have to wait).

So after all it was a fun day at the range, the XLR performed well and I learned once again why I prefer lever guns with iron sights. If anyone is interested in the Leupold scope, it will probably be for sale in the Classified section soon.
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Old August 5, 2007, 03:42 PM   #821
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CDignition, welcome in. Wow, you scored on that CS big time! $200! Good grief!

Z and E'trode, welcome back guys. Thought you'd gone on vacation.

Z, very interesting story about the scope v irons. Dang, dude, you're gonna make me reconsider a scope.

Actually, not really. I've got my mind set on trying a scout set up. If I don't like it after some time, I'll sell it. But I just gotta try. I know I don't want a traditional scope on mine, but am willing to try a scout.

By the way, speaking of scout scopes, our new member Swamper has a Burris Scout up for sale in the trading post here. Looks like a great deal. If I was ready to buy now, I might well jump on that one (even though I'll confess I've got my mouth set for a Leupold).

But I can say from personal experience that Swamper is a first-class person of integrity that will treat you right in a sale.

Nem
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Old August 5, 2007, 03:48 PM   #822
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Thanks,,

Is there a reference as to what the Letters mean?? CS, SS, A, etc??..

Also, I'm considering a tang sight, anyone got pics of them??.. What do you like?
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Old August 6, 2007, 03:06 AM   #823
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Initial impressions of the tune up

Well, my tune up experience was a learning experience.

For a guy (lowly biologist) who's never taken a gun apart beyond field stripping to clean it,
it was a challenging ( ) experience to be sure.

Most of it went smoothly, even with a few sketchy spots.

(I'll try to post some notes about the re-assembly soon ... busy week ahead, though ...)

But just for now, my initial impressions about the results based on about 100 cycles with an empty rifle.

First, the tune up did improve the smoothness. No doubt about that.

I still don't call it "silky", but it's a full two notches more smooth than before.

Also, based on the experience of taking the action fully apart, when I cycle the action,
I can visualize what's going on inside, and intuit where the rough spots are.

I'm not sure I have the ability to smooth them out any more - that's probably a job for a gun smith -
but at least I know where the bumps are.

Right now, I'd say there are still four spots that I'd like to see made more smooth. In a rapid cycle, they aren't noticeable. But when one cycles the action very slowly and deliberately, there's a noticeable increase in energy required to get past these points that makes it less "smooth". It may not be possible to smooth it more, but I'm betting there are ways that competent smith could make it feel like it's been cycled over 10K times.

1) The first movement of the lever away from the stock as cycle begins. Still takes more effort than I want it to.
I want it to be as smooth as a trigger pull in a SW 686 in SA mode: move my hand a smidgen, and the lock releases.

2) The point in the cycle where the lever is about an inch off the stock and the bolt engages the hammer.
There's a momentary disruption in the cycle there that requires more energy than it should for smoothness.

3) Immediately after the lever reaches full forward (open) position, and on the way back toward the stock, the bolt hits the ejector. At that precise point, the bolt still meets significant resistance against the ejector in its forward travel. Once past that point, the bolt moves very smoothly until ...

4) The final action in the cycle, which is to me the most annoying resistance because it disrupts the fluidity of the cycle: that click to seat the lever back against the stock, at the end of pushing the locking bolt up into the slot in the bottom of the bolt and locking the lever into place against the stock. In a slow stroke (oh, baby), that extra little "push" requires that one squeeze the lever with the fingers. If it was just a little smoother, it would click in naturally without effort.

OK, that may require some editing tomorrow,
but I think that captures the essence of it.

Oh, was the tune up worth the time, effort, confusion, frustrations and headaches?

Yes. Unequivocally, yes. For the learning experience alone, if nothing else.

Nem
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Old August 6, 2007, 08:38 AM   #824
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Nem,
If I understand your desires, #1 and #4 above both have to do with part #17 (Finger Lever Plunger) and it's related spring. Fine tuning that part so you get good lockup but so it also allows the lever to open and close smoothly is, to put it finely, a royal pain in the backside!

That and the resistance from the hammer might both be addressed with the spring set from Brownells that I mentioned earlier.

White lithium grease in the channel that the ejector slides in will help that some. How much it helps really depends on your gun.

Marlins work best when levered with "authority" anyway. You'll never get a 336 "silky smooth", or at least not in comparison to some of the cowboy action shooting guns I've used.
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Old August 8, 2007, 05:02 AM   #825
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just got the rifle, this thing is hard to load. any tips on how to make loading the rounds into the tube?
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