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Old December 16, 2007, 10:21 AM   #1276
JustsayMo
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Will the 30-30 work for Black Bear? Short answer, Yes.

Long answer: I've seen Bears hit with arrows, 45-70, 30-06 and 7.62x39. All did the job when the shot was in the right spot. Bears are tough critters and I always expect some trailing to be required. The second fastest bear kill I've ever witnessed was with an arrow. The dude didn't go 10 yards before expiring. Good hits with moderate (under 1500fps) velocity 45-70 loads are nothing short of devastating. The bear I saw hit with 7.62x39 took off like it wasn't hit but piled up after sprinting a few hundred yards. The hit was a little high and the angle wasn't ideal. It did the job and that is what the shooter intended to prove. I believe the 30-30 would have performed better because most ammunition is better designed for hunting.

I've also witnessed some bad hits taken by guys that don't practice enough to be proficient or were impatient. I try to avoid hunting with these types but my screening process isn't perfect. I had the misfortune of hunting with one of these types earlier this fall. The shot itself was not that difficult but the recovery part was questionable at best. I was NOT a happy camper looking for a bear in thick cover with night approaching. He had enough gun, he didn't execute the shot.

My point is that caliber matters less than shot placement.

We owe it to our quarry to be proficient with our weapons and to take ethical shots that maximize the probability of a quick kill and recovery.

rant over.

Last edited by JustsayMo; December 16, 2007 at 04:31 PM. Reason: clarification.
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Old December 16, 2007, 01:56 PM   #1277
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I appreicate your response Mo. I'd love to have a .45-70 and I'm sure a good hit with one would put a black bear down real quick. Personally, I never pull the trigger unless I'm sure of a good humane hit on anything. Also personally, I wouldn't pull the trigger on a bear of any kind unless he was being aggressive toward me or someone else. I know several would disagree, but I would feel more confident with a .44mag or .357mag revolver if I had to dispatch one. I just have more experience with revolvers when I have to make a shot, especially at close range. This is my rule: If I ain't gonna eat it, I ain't gonna kill it, unless someone requests that I kill a varmint for them.
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Old December 16, 2007, 05:00 PM   #1278
Fast Frank
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This conversation about pigs and bears and the .30-30 is interesting.

I was discussing the shooting of said pigs with one of my customers just the other day.

After listening to some stories about the recent pig hunts, I commented that I might pull out my .30-30 and see about turning one into bacon.

The response was not expected.

I got to listen to about ten minutes on how the .30-30 is a joke, and just doesn't have the power for a 100 pound pig.

Then, I had the honor of listening to ANOTHER ten minutes on how the 7mm mag was an instant death ray that flattens the largest of pigs from amazing distances regardless of where the bullet strikes the pork.

Right.

So what I got from that discussion was that I need to find SOMEBODY ELSE to discuss hunting with!
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Old December 16, 2007, 05:37 PM   #1279
velojym
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Hey, there's not much in the lower 48 I wouldn't feel comfortable taking with my old 336 in .30-30.
Of course, I'd avoid any real long shots, and wouldn't be super keen on taking anything bigger than deer anyway, but I'd be fine with hogs.
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Old December 16, 2007, 05:46 PM   #1280
tinygnat219
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.30-30 Will do just fine against a Black Bear. They aren't very thick-skinned.
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Old December 16, 2007, 05:55 PM   #1281
Nematocyst
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Very interesting reading here, folks.
Nice to revisit this issue about hogs and bears.

Speaking of 336 and relatives, here's a "it's-Sunday-afternoon-and-I'm-putting-off-going-to-work-as-long-as-possible" photo.

Below is my entire current gun tool kit, sans my 39A
which is still in the shop but due home any day now.
Of course, I'll have to retake the family photo when it gets home.
Hoping to have it home by Christmas.

Someday, before I head over to ID or north to AK,
I'll add a large bore lever gun, mostly likely an 1895 in .45-70,
and likely a 20 ga. SxS shotgun (got my eye on Stoegers).

I added my main camp knife group
and some rnds for size comparison.
  • 336A (.30-30)
  • 642 (.38 spl +p)
  • 1894C (.357 mag/.38 spl +p)
  • 65 (.357 mag/.38 spl +p)
  • Benchmade osborne (edc)
  • SOG seal pup elite
  • Kabar

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Old December 17, 2007, 01:46 AM   #1282
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Well, about six weeks ago I picked up a new Marlin 336. I haven't been able to take it out until today. Heading out to the desert, I was whistling and smiling like a little kid.

I ended up putting two boxes of ammo through her. The first box was some 110 grain plinker reloads. The second box was 150 commercial rounds. The plinkers hit about six inches low at 100 yards. The 150 grain ammo hit on level with the rear sight set on the third click.

The Marlin handled great. She felt very comfortable to carry and load. The action was smooth and the ejection was positive. I had no hang ups. This is a wonderful little brush gun.

Once I figured out how to set the rear sight for the 150 grain ammo I felt very good with the sight picture. The only problem was that she was hitting about five inches to the right at 100 yards.

The trigger was pretty heavy, but I think that it may have slicked up after my first box of ammo. Also, I noticed that the point of impact was shifting back toward the point of aim. I think that my windage adjustment problem may have been related to the heavy trigger pull. I may have been pulling the gun off target. I'll have to watch that on the next coulple of outings.

Anyway, it was a great day out in the California desert. I have attached a couple of pictures below.
Mauserguy



Last edited by Mauserguy; December 17, 2007 at 01:55 AM. Reason: Immage
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Old December 17, 2007, 02:21 AM   #1283
Fast Frank
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Mauserguy, you BLM land guys make me sick with jealousy!

Here in Houston, there's no place at all where we can just drive out in the middle of nowhere and shoot.

Do you need 4WD to get out there?

Those targets look pretty promising, too. I'm betting that when you figure out what bullets that rifle likes you're going to have a shooter on your hands.

Thanks for the pics!

Nemo, that's a nice collection you have going there. When you add your 39 and that .45-70 you've pretty much got a rifle for any conceivable purpose that might arise.

From mice to moose, from bad guys to zombies, from rabbits to buffalo... You've got it covered.

Now if you add a .22 and a .44mag to those revolvers you will have a "Full House" for sure.

Very nice indeed.
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Old December 17, 2007, 02:28 AM   #1284
Mauserguy
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No, you don't necessarily need four wheel drive out in the desert. You will be surprised how well a light weight two wheel truck can perform. I've gotten stuck a couple of times, but by letting air out of my tires, and shovelling a bit of sand, I have been able to glide out.

Low spots and ravines can be pretty scary though. At this particular spot, near Edwards Air Force Base, there are lots of dirt roads. They degrade away from the highways, but if you have some clearance, you will be surprised how far out into nowhere you can go.

I may go out again next weekend. I think I'm going to love this gun.
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Old December 17, 2007, 02:51 AM   #1285
Fast Frank
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Quote:
You will be surprised how well a light weight two wheel truck can perform.
Nope, no surprises here. I'm a Toyota owner.

Here's mine.(I cheat. it's 4WD)



Shooting a .22 where this pic was taken would most likely get some attention by the local police, and a .30-30 is absolutely out of the question.
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Old December 17, 2007, 03:07 AM   #1286
Nematocyst
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Mauser, glad the 336 worked out so well. Interesting report re those 110's and 150's.
Nice to hear of a success story of hitting at that range with open sights.

If it turns out that the heavy trigger isn't causing you to pull to the side,
you can adjust windage by tapping the dovetail slightly towards the side that
you're pulling towards just a tiny, tiny (did I mention: tiny) amount until it straightens up.

Quote:
No, you don't necessarily need four wheel drive out in the desert.
<Puts on bona fide desert rat hat>

Well, friends, I'll partially agree. You don't necessarily need 4x in the desert
IF you know what you're doing, know how to route find (using topos), and know when to turn back.

Otherwise, yup, you'd better have 4x.

And, for those cases where even the 4x doesn't get you out,
you'd darn well better have a few days extra water, some food,
and other gear (including a pack and some good hiking boots),
cause it could either be a long wait or a long walk.

I speak from experience.

Of course, I'm one of those that likes to drive way away from the pavement into some really big, difficult areas.

This canyon - a tributary of the Colorado just upstream from Grand Canyon -
was a third of a day's drive from pavement, then another three hours walk to the rim.

Getting into the canyon took another three hours.

We were down there for four days.
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Old December 17, 2007, 03:11 AM   #1287
Fast Frank
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Damn, Nemo...

That's awesome!

As far as being stranded goes, see the sticker on my window? I'm in the club.

We make it a policy to never go out where it could be dangerous unless there are several trucks and recovery gear. We all have radios, too. (I'm KC5WDP)

So far I haven't been as far out in the boonies as you have but I have connections if I decide to go.

One more time... I'm jealous!
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Old December 17, 2007, 03:24 AM   #1288
Nematocyst
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Dude, trust me on this one:
you owe it to yourself to visit big desert.

Just PM me when you get ready to go;
I'll send you directions to some amazing spaces
in several states.

Your choice of desert:
Chihuahuan, Sonoran, Mojave or Great Basin.

All starkly beautiful (magic happens at dusk and dawn)
and deliciously dangerous (says the desert biologist).
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Old December 21, 2007, 11:54 PM   #1289
Fast Frank
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Wow, four days without a post.

We're buried on page five.

bump!
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Old December 22, 2007, 02:52 AM   #1290
Nematocyst
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Hmm. Must be close to the holidays or something.

In the minds of some, Santa Claus
(or at least the mall for last minute "shopping")
temporarily trumps lever gun.
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Last edited by Nematocyst; December 22, 2007 at 06:10 PM. Reason: grinchlessness
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Old December 23, 2007, 12:15 AM   #1291
E121FX
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Family Convergence

That and the Mall craze has stifled all communique with the outside world...
So from our house to yours,
Merry Christmas Y'all!!!
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Old December 26, 2007, 05:03 PM   #1292
Dave Markowitz
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Quote:
In the minds of some, Santa Claus
(or at least the mall for last minute "shopping")
temporarily trumps lever gun.
But not for long!

I went out today with my Mini-14GB and my Marlin 336, which is pictured earlier in this thread. The GB gave me no end of trouble but the Marlin of course ran like a top. This was my first chance to get it out since putting a Williams Firesight and FP-336 receiver sight combo on it.

The Firesight works really well. It was overcast this afternoon but the red fiber optic front sight showed up very well.

I ran two kinds of ammo through the gun. First, a couple boxes of Wolf Gold (Prvi Partizan) 150 grain JSP to zero it. Then some Remington 170 grain JSP to verify the zero, because it's my go-to load. I think the Remingtons feed a little more smoothly. Anyway, when I did my part, the rifle will put them all in the 10 ring of an SR-1 target at 100 yards.

One change I made was to remove the Eagle Shooter's Stock Pack. It includes a cheek pad which made getting a proper cheek weld. (I may put it on my FAL if I scope that rifle.)

What a darn fine rifle this Marlin is.
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Old December 27, 2007, 04:05 AM   #1293
Nematocyst
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Nice to see that everyone was responsible during the holidays,
and no one burned down the club house.

Dave, nice report. I'm envious of your range time.

Quote:
I went out today with my Mini-14GB and my Marlin 336, which is pictured earlier in this thread.
The GB gave me no end of trouble but the Marlin of course ran like a top.

<snip>

What a darn fine rifle this Marlin is.
You're not the only one who thinks that.
Check out this post from the thread
"The Tactical 30-30 Lever Action Rifle":

Quote:
My youngest girl grew up shooting and hunting with the family. After she got out the Marines after 4 years (shooting expert rifle each year ) I give her the pick of my gun safe. She needed a HD long gun. She looked over an AR15 2 pump shotguns, 2 bolt guns and Mini-14 , she pick a Marlin 336 30/30. Her reasons made a lot of sense gun is short, quick, simple and she had confidence in it. She had taken 2 deer with it when she was young teen.

She a very smart, capable woman. (I am just a bit proud of her) She lives alone in a large city and is not fearful.
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Old December 27, 2007, 09:17 AM   #1294
Dave Markowitz
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Heh. Smart girl.
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Old December 27, 2007, 03:12 PM   #1295
Dave Markowitz
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Armorer's Kit for a Marlin 336

I know a bunch of us have 336s as go-to rifles for SHTF (see this thread and the one on "Tactical Lever Actions). IMHO, if you're going to count on a gun for SHTF, having some spare parts makes a lot of sense. With that in mind, here's my take on what to include in an armorer's kit for a Marlin 336:

1. Spare lever screw. You need to remove it to field strip the rifle, which means it could get lost. No lever screw and the rifle is inoperable.

2. Ejector.

3. Extractor

4. Firing pin.

5. Spare sights. Yeah, iron sights are rugged, but they do get banged up sometimes. Finn Aagard remarked that in his days guiding in Africa, he saw more busted iron sights than scopes. If nothing else, keep the factory sights if you upgrade to something better.

6. Spare mag spring and tube (optional).

Other suggestions?
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Old December 27, 2007, 04:37 PM   #1296
ZeSpectre
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White lithium grease (put it on the nose of the lever, makes things run surprisingly smoothly.
Good screwdriver FOR FIREARMS (you know, square tipped bits and all)
Blue locktite <grin>.
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Old December 27, 2007, 04:45 PM   #1297
Nematocyst
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Armorer's Kit for a Marlin 336

This is a great addition, Dave.
Thanks for starting it.

I think I'll do this for each gun in my toolkit.
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Old December 27, 2007, 05:02 PM   #1298
velojym
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I've fallen behind in my to-do list.
I have to find and install an acceptable aperture sight for the 336,
" a front sight for my Savage 93, and get it drilled and tapped for a scope,
clean up and inspect a CVA "Hawken" which was used in stage productions, with black powder blank loads,
find and install a suitable composite stock (and maybe even a barrel) for my 10/22... and some other stuff.

*whew* ... and I need to move some airplane parts, and cut up some shelving in the garage so I'll have room for a big workbench.
Yee-haw. At least I'll have plenty to do on these long winter nights.
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Old December 27, 2007, 05:49 PM   #1299
paintballdude902
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the marlin landed its second doe of the season on christmas eve
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The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.-Eleanor Roosevelt
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Old December 28, 2007, 06:23 AM   #1300
Nematocyst
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The times they are a changin'

Heads up, boys and girls.

Change is in the wind.

Remington buys Marlin
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