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Old January 19, 2015, 06:59 AM   #1
B!ngoFuelUSN
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Converting a Sig556 pistol to a Sig556 carbine

So, I recently bought the Sig 556 in pistol form to have a short barrel, high quality gun that can be used both as a pistol and as an SBR (by occasionally shouldering the stock). If I could have filed for an SBR I would have but the state of CA prevents such models for civilians.
It's a beautiful gun that has gotten great reviews no matter how it is held.
Now with all of the churning by BAtF/E regarding the Sig grip I'm considering avoiding the problem altogether by swapping out the stock to a conventional rifle butt stock, but I would also have to purchase a full length barrel (again, I cannot legally license an SBR here in CA), so I would need s Sig compatible 16" barrel with muzzle device as well.
DO you have an opinion as to whether this is the right way t go? I'd like to start using the gun right now at the range and am concerned that it and it will be looked at because the gun is suddenly under such scrutiny. I don't appreciate that level of visibility.
Second, it doesn't seem easy to get new and longer barrels for this gun, although it must be done. How and were would you find them? What would they cost and what machines are needed? I assume this is a job for a big press!
Any other perspective on the matter and my thinking would be welcomed as well. I'm just not sure I want to tie up time and money with a gun that has limited and poorly divided use cases at the moment, even though they are likely to become clear and much less interesting when the smoke clears!
Thanks,
B
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Old January 19, 2015, 07:41 AM   #2
Johnny_B_Goode
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Unless you are sentimentally attached to the gun I would sell it. Then just buy the rifle you want to own. By the time you buy a barrel and a stock you will never be able to get your money out of that gun.

Most people just buy the sig brace so they can shoot their gun until they get a tax stamp to convert the gun into a SBR.
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Old January 19, 2015, 10:39 AM   #3
Willie Sutton
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^^ since you're in California the advice to sell and buy a rifle is good advice.

I happen to be looking for a pistol and am now in SoCal if that's an option.

Willie



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Old January 19, 2015, 10:46 AM   #4
Ryanxia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_B_Goode View Post
Most people just buy the sig brace so they can shoot their gun until they get a tax stamp to convert the gun into a SBR.
Actually most people who buy the Sig brace just stick with the Sig brace.
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Old January 19, 2015, 03:17 PM   #5
B!ngoFuelUSN
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I'll likely sell it then. I am somewhat attached as the newer version of the rifle/pistol just doesn't thrill me like the original. But all of this ((**^%^&%& with the brace has me dismayed.
B
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Old January 19, 2015, 03:26 PM   #6
RCArms.com
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You can always ditch the brace altogether and run a single point sling and put forward tension into your shooting position.

Personally, Id sell it take run with a rifle. The Tavor offers a lot if your looking for short overall length.
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Old January 19, 2015, 07:59 PM   #7
B!ngoFuelUSN
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Originally Posted by RCArms.com View Post
You can always ditch the brace altogether and run a single point sling and put forward tension into your shooting position.

Personally, Id sell it take run with a rifle. The Tavor offers a lot if your looking for short overall length.
I have it configured that way (w/o the brace) for now and could keep it, shoot it that way, and see what happens with the brace controversy. The Tavor is appealing but here in CA you have to add a long muzzle device to bring it up to a minimum of 30" (I guess you can keep a 26" rifle in your pocket).
B
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Old January 19, 2015, 08:31 PM   #8
FrankCastleThePunisher
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Is it illegal to shoot the pistol with the buffer tube against the shoulder?
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Old January 20, 2015, 04:10 AM   #9
B!ngoFuelUSN
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Well, unlike an AR pistol, there really is not buffer 'tube' in this model as there is no AR-style buffer. To install the brace, they create and attach a fake solid plastic cylinder that looks a bit like a buffer tube but is shorter and more 'delicate'. Not sure if it would be legal to tuck that one against you like people do with an AR pistol.
B
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Old January 20, 2015, 04:13 AM   #10
B!ngoFuelUSN
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Just would like to search a little deeper before I head off and sell the thing - which would be disappointing as fundamentally, the 556 is a keeper. So, could someone estimate what the barrel replacement cost would be? I.E. to go from a pistol length (I don't recall if it's a 10.5" barrel) to a 16" 1:7-9 twist .223/5.56 barrel? Are they sold? How are they removed and installed? Separately I'd have to work on installing a real stock but I assume that adapters are available to handle a variety of them. Especially if I didn't want them to fold.
Any numbers, estimates or references to people who have done this would be appreciated.
Thx,
B
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Old January 20, 2015, 10:15 AM   #11
Tirod
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Keep it, it's tough enough to get a pistol in CA as it is. As for the Brace, that issue is far from over and there are legal recourses by the vendors to seek declaratory relief. Just because the ATF pulled a stunt just before SHOT 2015 to spike sales of brace equipped guns doesn't mean the reversal was legal. "Arbitrary and capricious" isn't a defense in support of their position.

As said, the modification to change it aren't worth the money. As a pistol itself it's no problem, just sell it whole if the situation spooks you. Plenty of others will line up to buy it from you - which should be a tell that things are NOT perceived as negatively as some fearmongers are making out.

And since it is CA, making it a rifle isn't all that, what would the list of acceptable features help improve on it?
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Old January 20, 2015, 12:52 PM   #12
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Keep the pistol, keep the arm brace. Get a 16 inch upper. When you want to shoot it like a rifle, just add the 16 inch upper and shoulder it.

As hard as it is to legally acquire firearms in the PRK, I wouldn't advise selling anything
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Old January 20, 2015, 08:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by FrankCastleThePunisher View Post
Is it illegal to shoot the pistol with the buffer tube against the shoulder?
No. As I understand it, there is no illegal way to fire a gun, only parts that are illegal to bolt on to your gun without "big brothers" permission.
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Old January 21, 2015, 02:57 AM   #14
B!ngoFuelUSN
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You know, you are completely correct.
I keep forgetting that I bought it (and it's little goofy friend an 'Extar') because here in CA it was the last chance to get one pretty much forever since the single shot exemption ended on 1/1/14.
It's just that this Sig brace controversy has me paranoid about being seen with it. I had removed the brace and put an end cap on it long before this recapitulation by the BATF/E because I wanted to focus on shooting it as a pistol. But I want the option of using the brace with it and another with the Extar in the future if I so choose.
I guess my consideration of selling the Sig is an example of how this kind of government FUD works. It's not clear what the decision and outcome is, but it's sufficiently worrisome that some people (like myself) just want to walk away from it all.
You've convinced me though. Thanks for helping me come to my senses.
B

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirod View Post
Keep it, it's tough enough to get a pistol in CA as it is. As for the Brace, that issue is far from over and there are legal recourses by the vendors to seek declaratory relief. Just because the ATF pulled a stunt just before SHOT 2015 to spike sales of brace equipped guns doesn't mean the reversal was legal. "Arbitrary and capricious" isn't a defense in support of their position.

As said, the modification to change it aren't worth the money. As a pistol itself it's no problem, just sell it whole if the situation spooks you. Plenty of others will line up to buy it from you - which should be a tell that things are NOT perceived as negatively as some fearmongers are making out.

And since it is CA, making it a rifle isn't all that, what would the list of acceptable features help improve on it?
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Old January 21, 2015, 02:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
Keep the pistol, keep the arm brace. Get a 16 inch upper. When you want to shoot it like a rifle, just add the 16 inch upper and shoulder it.

As hard as it is to legally acquire firearms in the PRK, I wouldn't advise selling anything
Can you buy just a Sig 556 upper? I've never checked. This is the AK-style design, not their AR-style design (which is a 516 I believe). That is, no buffer tube, right side cocking handle. Uses conventional AR magazines. It's a clone of the Swiss firearm. Or so I've read. I'm assuming (and I'm not terribly interested) that you can't run the 556 lower with an AR-style upper. They really don't seem to have a whole lot in common (the 516 and 556 uppers that is).
B

Last edited by B!ngoFuelUSN; January 21, 2015 at 03:04 AM.
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Old January 21, 2015, 08:32 AM   #16
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I'm no kind of expert on the 556, but it looks like the rifle breaks down into two halves. Only way to find out if you can get an upper is to check. However, a quick check on gunbroker showed no upper alone for sale. It appear that, unlike the AR, the upper is the firearm
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Last edited by MistWolf; January 21, 2015 at 08:40 AM.
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Old January 21, 2015, 10:12 AM   #17
Tirod
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I understand the recent reversal on braces has some worried. It's not worth the lost sleep tho. Your pistol is legal regardless until CA makes some other intrusion into your rights.

The brace issue didn't exist before you saw it, right? Or, did you have the intent to use the brace as a shoulder stock all along?

Rifles use shoulder stocks, pistols don't.

What a stock or brace does is limit your use - and prevent you from being as inaccurate as your skill level would likely be without. In the face of other shooters being able to hit steel with 9mm handguns 400m out, it's really a matter of shooter skill. A stock is just an aid, same as a red dot, it gets better results sooner without all the practice. Great for military units getting in inexperienced young men with no skills at all.

If you were to participate in a paint ball showdown, who would you prefer to go up against, a complete newb with a shoulder stocked gun, or Todd Jarrett or Chris Costa with a paint ball version of the AR pistol?

Shot placement is key, and discipline and experience get that, not a stock. Since the advent of the brace it's forced a lot of thought about it and why we use them - and caused me to reconsider a lot of notions that I took for granted up front.

And to parody that thought, we don't need no stinkin' stocks. What we need is skill, experience, and discipline, not the dependence on an accessory to make up for our lack of them. All a stock does is keep the weapon from moving around as much on one end. We still have to hold it up to the sightline and keep the other end from moving much. It only makes it half as difficult.

Practice more and it won't be. Those that shoot handguns seem to do quite well, I wouldn't want to go up against them with their favorite even if I had the one shoulder stock to rule them all. I still have to be good enough.

We make more of it than we should. Food for thought.
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