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Old March 29, 2007, 11:30 AM   #101
JustsayMo
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Nem,
Disassemble your 39. Remove the bolt. Look at the rear chamber near the top. Use something like a dental probe to feel for a burr.

Then look at the firing pin. It should be profiled where the farthest point forward is on the bottom edge (when oriented right side up). Look for a shiny spot or burr there.

It should not be so profiled it comes to a point. Just enough to clear the rear most chamber edge. Cases will reveal if the firing pin is not striking close enough to the edge.

Now look at the bolt.

Push the firing pin fully forward. The retention pin (looks like a golf ball marker) should allow the firing pin movement with minimal friction. The older models don't have this pin. It might (unlikely) that the rention pin is too loose and it allows the firing pin's forward edge to become misaligned as it travels forward.

The firing pin should also project far enough forward of the bolt face to make a good dent. I had a 39 with the rebounding hammer that required some filing on the underside firing pin projections that limit forward travel. I think I took about .030" off and it never had a problem again.

Your problem is not uncommon with the rebounding hammer 39's. I like the safety but the rebounding hammer seems to increase the likelyhood of FTF. I've never had a FTF with my pre-safety 39's.
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Old March 29, 2007, 01:38 PM   #102
Nematocyst
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J'mo, thanks much for your suggestions. They are encouraging.

I'm just getting to work, and have a few brush fires to put out here first.

Later, I'll take a closer look at your directions. I may have a question or two ... writing and reading technical directions about parts with complicated shapes without diagrams can be challenging sometimes .

Again, thanks for taking the time to offer them.

More later ...

Nem
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Old March 29, 2007, 04:20 PM   #103
Brassman
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Justsaymo

Your groups with your 39A and 452 look great to me. I've never shot targets at 50 yds, but my 25 yd groups with a rest look kinda like your 50 yd. shots with a few flyers common to most rimfire ammo. I love my 39A, especially with my new Skinner aperture sights. Maybe with some more practice I can get my groups to look as good as yours.

Nem,
Sorry to hear you are having some trouble with your 39A. I have not had any FTF's, but 2 FTE's in about 1000 rnds.

Last edited by Brassman; March 29, 2007 at 04:20 PM. Reason: typo
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Old March 29, 2007, 05:00 PM   #104
tubeshooter
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Nem, I hope you get everything worked out soon. I had issues from the factory, so don't feel bad. Once you get straightened out, everything will be fine.


I'm strongly considering those Skinner sights. I like the overall profile much better.
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Old March 29, 2007, 10:04 PM   #105
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Dry firing a Marlin 39

Quote:
I wish it were possible to dry fire rimfires
They don't get any easier or safer than the 39. Remove the takedown screw, take out the bolt, drop out the firing pin, reassemble without the firing pin, and you can dry fire to your hearts content. Just remember to put the firing pin back in before you go to the range, or you'll have egg on your face!
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Old March 29, 2007, 10:38 PM   #106
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Quote:
...drop out the firing pin, reassemble without the firing pin...
Skeet, unfortunately, I don't think I can do that.

My firing pin seems to be "pinned in" by some sort of metal dowel (or plug) that's flush with the top of the bolt. The pin moves freely back and forth in it's little grove in the bolt under the dowel, but it doesn't seem to come out. (I've even wondered if this configuration is related to light strikes somehow ... purely speculation. I have no idea or evidence ...)

When he was helping me with this problem before, Salty also recommended removing the pin, but I can't find a way to do it.

Maybe they've changed it, making it not removable in the newer ones ... ?

Anybody know?
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Old March 30, 2007, 01:14 AM   #107
JustsayMo
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The firing pin is pretty easy to remove.
1-remove bolt.
2-locate firing pin retaining stud on top of bolt.
3-on the opposite (lower/trigger) side there is a hole. Place bolt upside down on a piece of wood with a hole slightly larger than the retaining stud head.
4-Take a flat punch and drive it through.
5-The firing pin will fall out.
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Old March 30, 2007, 01:53 AM   #108
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Excellent! Thanks, 'Mo.

This thread is a gold mine.
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Old March 30, 2007, 09:49 PM   #109
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Quote:
Skeet, unfortunately, I don't think I can do that.

My firing pin seems to be "pinned in" by some sort of metal dowel (or plug) that's flush with the top of the bolt.
That could well be. Mine dates to 1971, and has nothing to support the firing pin. I just turn over the bolt and it falls out. Why it would need to be pinned into place is beyond me.

Then again, I've got a crossbolt safety on the 1894 (hasn't been a problem for me yet, but I don't like it.
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Old March 31, 2007, 09:50 PM   #110
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Using J'mo's directions, I got the bolt out and firing pin (FP) removed.

Since this may be a common problem,
I'm posting an image to guide our understanding of what's up.
(Pardon the fuzzy image)



Interestingly, the side of the FP was "sticky". When dragging a cloth over it, it felt as if someone has spilled a soft drink on it and allowed it to dry. It was tacky. I guess that could have impeded it's movement. I'm cleaning it with solvent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J'mo
Disassemble your 39. Remove the bolt. Look at the rear chamber near the top. Use something like a dental probe to feel for a burr.
J'mo, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "rear chamber". I've indicated what I think you mean. You can guide me from there.

Quote:
Then look at the firing pin. It should be profiled where the farthest point forward is on the bottom edge (when oriented right side up). Look for a shiny spot or burr there.
Sorry, I'm not following that one.

Quote:
It should not be so profiled it comes to a point. Just enough to clear the rear most chamber edge. Cases will reveal if the firing pin is not striking close enough to the edge.
I'm not sure how close to the edge the FP should be striking. Examining about spent 12 cases, it's clear that there is some variation in how close to the edge it's hitting. Some hits actually cause a tiny burr on the outside of the case rim, where as others leave a tiny un-imprinted space (guessing 0.1 mm) between the outer end of the FP imprint and the rim of the case. Not sure if that is normal variation or not. (That is, I don't know how close to the rim the FP has to hit to get firing.)
Quote:
Now look at the bolt. Push the firing pin fully forward. The retention pin (looks like a golf ball marker) should allow the firing pin movement with minimal friction. The older models don't have this pin. It might (unlikely) that the retention pin is too loose and it allows the firing pin's forward edge to become misaligned as it travels forward.
See above for stickiness of the FP and variation in it's imprint on the case. However, the retention pin seemed well seated; its top was flush with the bolt surface.
Quote:
The firing pin should also project far enough forward of the bolt face to make a good dent. I had a 39 with the rebounding hammer that required some filing on the underside firing pin projections that limit forward travel. I think I took about .030" off and it never had a problem again.
OK, this is getting down to brass tacks, er, firing pins.

Which of those "projections" that limit forward travel of the FP should be filed? #1, #2, or both?

Thanks.

Nem
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Last edited by Nematocyst; April 1, 2007 at 02:27 AM. Reason: infernal typos
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Old March 31, 2007, 10:51 PM   #111
bluedsteel
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Count me in as a 39 fan as well. I bought my 39AS about 10 years ago. I wanted one since childhood...loved the solid steel and walnut. Mine is scoped with a Leupold 2-7X33 Rifleman...great rig.

My only complaint is the trigger pull. Mine is around 5-6 pounds...this wears on me during extended sessions shooting at small targets.

Has anyone had any luck with getting the trigger pull lightened on their 39? Did a gunsmith do the work?

Thanks.

bluedsteel
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Old March 31, 2007, 11:27 PM   #112
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BluedSteel, welcome to 39A-ville AND THR.

For short, would you prefer "blued" or "steel"?
The other option is "BS", but I don't think you'd want that moniker.

I'll add you to the roster at next listing. (My edit window has closed.)

Quote:
Has anyone had any luck with getting the trigger pull lightened on their 39?
Did a gunsmith do the work?
That's a good question. I feel the same about my trigger: it's heavy.

Opinions?
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Old March 31, 2007, 11:55 PM   #113
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Once again, you guys got my curiosity up:

Quote:
My only complaint is the trigger pull. Mine is around 5-6 pounds...this wears on me during extended sessions shooting at small targets.
So, I pulled out the gauge and checked. The trigger went off at exactly 4lbs, nice and crisp. Maybe the older ones were made with a lighter trigger, or maybe shooting however-many-thousand rounds through it in the past 36 years has lightened it up. The trigger on my 39 is a lot better than my 1894C.
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Old April 1, 2007, 01:04 AM   #114
dfariswheel
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A good gunsmith can lighten the Marlin trigger nicely, BUT, I'd caution that as simple as the Marlin 39 trigger looks, trigger work is no place to be learning.

The older Marlin's actually had an adjustable hammer spring assembly that allowed lightening both the hammer strike, and through it, the trigger pull.
On my 1950 model, the hammer's coil mainspring seats in a flat plate which can be moved forward or rearward to adjust tension.

Simple use will lighten the Marlin's trigger over time, and you can help it along by applying a good grease to the hammer/trigger interface.
A friend of mine bought his 39-A in the 1960's and always applied Gunslick Graphite Gun Grease to his action and trigger.
Over the years, the graphite has smoothed the parts until he has about a 3 pound trigger, and the action is so smooth it seems to operate itself.

Since most people don't want to wait 40 years or more, I suggest seeing a good gunsmith for a trigger job.

I just got my 1950 restoration job back from being re-blued, and as soon as it stops raining I'll take some pictures and post them here.
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Old April 1, 2007, 10:07 AM   #115
Rollis R. Karvellis
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Well last Sunday I, went shooting with the 39A and once again had several f.t.e. at first I,
Thought it was the mart-mart Federals with there small rims but then the Remington’s were also doing it, so I, had my gun mechanic order a new extractor. Hopefully this will cure the problem.
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Old April 1, 2007, 11:38 AM   #116
bluedsteel
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Thanks for the trigger info. My local gunsmith says he can improve my 39's trigger...I was just curious if anyone had this type of work done, and how it turned out. I see that Midway offers a Wild West Guns trigger for the Marlin 336, 444, 1894 and 1895 models, but I didn't see anything offered for the 39. It requires a gunsmith installation anyway.

My 39 seems to be quite accurate, but the trigger makes using that accuracy a bit difficult. Lately, because of the trigger, I have been favoring my Anschutz Sporter...


bluedsteel
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Old April 1, 2007, 11:48 AM   #117
JustsayMo
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Nem, I'll give it another try. My appologies for my clumsy discriptions.

Nem wrote:
"J'mo, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "rear chamber". I've indicated what I think you mean. You can guide me from there."

The rear chamber is on the barrel half of the rifle. With the rifle halved look down barrel from the reciever end. The very rear end of the bore might have a burr or be dented if the FP is not profiled correctly.

Quote:
Then look at the firing pin. It should be profiled where the farthest point forward is on the bottom edge (when oriented right side up). Look for a shiny spot or burr there.
Sorry, I'm not following that one.

With the firing pin removed examine the forward most point. It will look like a little knub forward of the main shaft. That knub should be beveled down from the top so that the longest dimention of the FP is taken on its lower edge. I can't quite tell from your picture.

A burr on the rear chamber top is evidence that the FP needs more profiling. Take care not to file too much though. Fine line.

If there is NO burr/dent/shiney flat spot on the chamber and the bevel on the FP seems to be uniform with no burrs, dents or localized shiney spots... then I would look for another cause.


Quote:
It should not be so profiled it comes to a point. Just enough to clear the rear most chamber edge. Cases will reveal if the firing pin is not striking close enough to the edge.
I'm not sure how close to the edge the FP should be striking. Examining about spent 12 cases, it's clear that there is some variation in how close to the edge it's hitting. Some hits actually cause a tiny burr on the outside of the case rim, where as others leave a tiny un-imprinted space (guessing 0.1 mm) between the outer end of the FP imprint and the rim of the case. Not sure if that is normal variation or not. (That is, I don't know how close to the rim the FP has to hit to get firing.)
Quote:
Now look at the bolt. Push the firing pin fully forward. The retention pin (looks like a golf ball marker) should allow the firing pin movement with minimal friction. The older models don't have this pin. It might (unlikely) that the retention pin is too loose and it allows the firing pin's forward edge to become misaligned as it travels forward.
See above for stickiness of the FP and variation in it's imprint on the case. However, the retention pin seemed well seated; its top was flush with the bolt surface.
Quote:
The firing pin should also project far enough forward of the bolt face to make a good dent. I had a 39 with the rebounding hammer that required some filing on the underside firing pin projections that limit forward travel. I think I took about .030" off and it never had a problem again.
OK, this is getting down to brass tacks, er, firing pins.

Which of those "projections" that limit forward travel of the FP should be filed? #1, #2, or both?


If you are getting shallow FP dents in your cases, and the sticky FP and the FP knub check out then I would carefully file tab #1 on the forward most edge. (DO NOT FILE #2. When the lever is opperated tab#2 is engaged and pushed back to the cocked position). About .010-.020" should be plenty. More than that and the cause is likely elsewhere.

Nem, I have some pictures but my (lack of) computer skills don't include posting here at THR. I can email them to you if you PM me your email address
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Old April 1, 2007, 11:53 AM   #118
Bentonville
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When using Remington Golden Bullet, which seems to have a gummy lubricant on it, my rifle had FTE after about 50 rounds. In fact, I had to use a cleaning rod to push down the barrel to get the shell out. I used Federal after a thorough cleaning and my son and I shot about 300 rounds without one problem. I still need a rear sight elevator for my C5000 manufactured in 1946. Anyone install a scope or another type of sight and want to sell your sight? Just asking.
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Old April 1, 2007, 04:07 PM   #119
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Good info coming in on triggers, fte's, ftf's, and "gummy lubricant" (which could be related to my "sticky" FP). Thanks.

Dfaris, good advice about the trigger issues.

Rollis, please keep us posted re the repair issue.

J'mo, thanks for the clarification. Much better. I'm starting to get it. I'll send a PM in a little while ... after coffee ... (I had it all written, complete with email addy, a question about the FP, and instructions on how to post images into a thread, then hit the wrong button and it vaporized ... )

OK, coffee ... I need coffee ...
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Old April 1, 2007, 10:11 PM   #120
jimrichter
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I'm glad I came upon this thread. I love Marlins (truly the "workingman's" rifle--solidly built and affordable) and especially the 39s. I've got a few Marlins--including a new .357 1894 and a '57 336 30/30. But my favorite two rifles are my '52 39a (pre-microgroove) and my '73 Mountie. And actually, of those two, I probably prefer the Mountie more, due to the carbine length barrel.

I don't have any photos immediately available of the mountie, but I do have some of the '52.

Jim
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Old April 1, 2007, 10:23 PM   #121
Nematocyst
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A temporary leave of absence

Jim, welcome to 39A-ville and THR.

That's a fine looking rifle with beautiful furniture. Amazingly rich color.
________

39A gang,

As I wrote earlier in the 336 club, this is going to be an extremely busy week for me. I'm in charge of a very large project that's going to be culminating next Saturday.

I'll be checking in some this week, but less so as Saturday approaches.

The week after that will be another busy one (but less so than this one).
After that, I should be back to "normal" for a while. (What ever "normal" is ... )

So, if you folks will look after the "club house" while I'm out, it'd be great.

As long as you knock most of the mud off your boots at the door, boots on the coffee table are fine.

Drinks are in the fridge. .22 rnds are in the large wooden cabinet behind the couch. Help yourself.

Nem
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Old April 2, 2007, 11:12 AM   #122
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I have 39m
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Old April 2, 2007, 12:08 PM   #123
Sniper X
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I see you don't have to own a 39A to be in the club!!?? Cool! Count me in, it was my first gun I purchased with my very own money in 1968 when I was ten....I loved it shot the heck out of it and only sold it to get my first handgun, a Colt Dimondback, so you can;t fault me "that" much!

I WILL have another as soon as I find one!
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Old April 2, 2007, 04:17 PM   #124
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Absolutely can't fault you on that deal, Sniper X! However, I've got to admit that my very stupidest deals happen when I'm trying to rustle up some cash to get the latest gleam in my eye. I've come to understand that a little patience will save me a lot of heartache! Anyhow, welcome to the club and don't waste too much time in replacing your 39...
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Old April 2, 2007, 04:29 PM   #125
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Thanks Swamp, I did just Saturday replace my 336RC vintage 1968 so I am on my way to finding a 39a! Heres the 336RC I picked up Saturday for 250 out the door...deal and a half!
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