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Old April 18, 2009, 12:32 AM   #2151
Mal H
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tig56 - a little image posting tip for future reference:

You can't attach images twice as you've found out, but you can add them as images anywhere you would like to. Simply get the URL of the attachment and put it in an of IMG tag set.

For example, the following image tag and URL:

[img]http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=96311[/img]

will give you this in your post:

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Old April 18, 2009, 09:58 AM   #2152
atwoodt
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Found this pretty good info

Marlin Lever Action Rimfire
Rifles History
The Marlin lever action 22 rifles were invented by L.L. Hepburn & first introduced as the model 1891, (which had 2 series). These were hammer type firearms typical of the period when they were introduced. The 1891 did not have any model numbers stamped on the upper tang like the following models did. It seems that many of the early firearms companies, when they first came up with a new model, that they never envisioned improving it & then changing the model number for the newer model. The model 1892 & 1897 continued simultaneously until 1915 when the factory tooled up for military contracts for WW I. The model designation for 1892 & 1897 was changed to just model 92 & 97 in 1905. After the war, the company reformed in 1922 & the model 39 emerged. Then in 1936 the model 39A appeared as a further improved version yet. Some parts do interchange from the older guns, BUT? No guns were made from 1942 to 1944 during WW II. There were lots of changes & different variations between 1939 & 1988.
Ordering replacement parts can get confusing, since many of the parts are shared with different models as the transgression progressed & improvements were introduced. Then there is the fact that the factory probably utilized as many parts as possible on the later guns until the old parts were exhausted. So there could be an overlap. Or the gun could have been returned to the factory at some later date & would then have been fitted with the newer parts if they were interchangeable or could be made to fit.
Or scavenged parts off any close model (some will interchange but not be the correct vintage) could have been acquired by previous owners.
The serial numbers did not start with 0 even for the original model, as the factory mixed serial numbers with ALL other models being made at that time.
In ordering parts, the part number on the older catalogs had a number & a letter. The numbers usually did not change from catalog to catalog of different years, however the letter would. So you could see a 57G in one catalog & the next years catalog COULD be 57F for the same part. Many catalogs simply requested the user to supply model, caliber & serial number of the firearm in question. A later intermediate catalog, then utilized a model number prefix added to the part number, as 39-57. However some lists have a number different. This part number following the prefix COULD have been taken from the previous non-prefixed catalog, but not always.
Firing pins were totally different for the 1891 & 1892, (except for possibly a overlap during the 1st year of the 1892) & as compared to the 1897 & 39 series. The firing pins have a notch with extensions both front & rear of this notch. The notch is where the upper end of the finger lever rides to move the bolt forward & back. This part of the lever rides in this notch & also retracts the firing pin. If the wrong firing pin is placed in a bolt, the lever may well bind.
As time moves on & you get into the model 39 series, the factory used letters in addition to numbers added to the part numbers. These letters were usually "A" either as a prefix or suffix to the model followed by the part number. However they did not see in the future that the next model would become the 39A. Since there was already an "A" behind the model number, they then placed it as a prefix in addition to the already used suffix. Therefore you can see a A39A-32 part number.
Notice on the LH picture below, the bolt has no slot on the RH side, as compared to the other bolts in the other pictures. The early 1891 firearms did not have this feature. This slot on the later guns also has a matching protrusion in the frame at the rear. This was designed so that if you take the sideplate off, or take down the gun, that the breechbolt will not just fall out. It has to be positioned to the proper location before it will come out of the receiver.
To help identify the 2nd from the left illustration below, the center breech bolt, as compared to the RH one. Viewing from the bottom, the round hole shown is where the 1/2 round retainer portion of the extractor fits. This hole being a retainer for the extractor as well as a means of removing a broken one, goes all the way thru the breech bolt. The extractors for the 1891, 1892, & early 1897 were #25G. On the LH picture, the RH bolt uses the later #39A-26/27 extractor that has a separate spring. There appears to be some slop over as to which extractor fitted which gun in the transition of the 97 / 39, whether this happened in a transition period or possibly the breech bolts could have been changed somewhere in the firearm's life.
The 3rd from the left picture shows the same bolts as in the LH picture. The 1891 firing pins have a narrower tip than the later models. Note the face of the bolt where the firing pin protrudes is a different width on all 3 bolts. Also note that the firing pin slot hole that goes thru the bolt about midway has a shorter slot for the model 91. Here you can see the differences of the slots for the extractors, with the 91 bolt having the extractor still in it. The RH 97 bolt has been broken & brazed back together. Later bolts were machined differently to eliminate this weakness.
Breech bolt from a 1891 Sideloader Here are the 1891, 1892/1897 & late 1897 breech bolts shown from the bottoms The same bolts as pictured on left, but shown from the top, note FP tip width differences 22 RF model 1892 & 32 RF model 1891
   

The firing pins for the late 92, 97 & 39 should all be interchangeable, however there were 4 different versions of the tip section. The last version will function with all the previous ones. The extractors of course have to match the corresponding vintage breech bolt.
On the RH picture, it shows the differences between the 1892 22RF, showing the longer slot for the firing pin as shown in the other pictures, as compared to the wider front for the 32 caliber & the shorter firing pin slot of the model 1891. The extractors are the same for both calibers as evidenced by the distance between the extractor slot & the firing pin slots.
Model 1891 Sideplate Version:
The first this series of rifles was introduced as the model 1891 in 22RF only. The 24" barrel could have been had in either round or octagon. It was a side eject 22 Long Rifle, that utilized a side loading gate thru the RH sideplate. This sideplate was removable to access the internal parts after unscrewing the thumbscrew. The magazine tube was under the barrel that was shorter than the later versions. The trigger & sear were 2 separate parts with a lever disconnector much like the Winchester model 94. This trigger disconnector was what Marlin the used as "Marlin Safety", which was engraved on top of the receiver. It could have been had in either a straight or semi-pistol grip style. The extractor was made so that a 1/2 of a circle protrusion was on the side of the shaft, holding it into the breech bolt. The ejector was a spring with a rounded ball on the rear, which had a hole in this ball end that a screw went thru & was screwed into a slot on the LH side of the receiver.
The side loader 1891 was replaced with the tube loader 1891 after about 5,000 guns. All of the model 1891's used as a cartridge stop, a flat twisted spring that was screwed into the upper part of the sideplate. They did not utilize a cartridge cut-off so only 22 Long Rifle ammo could be used.
Model 1891 Sideloader


Model 1891, Standard Version: This model used a 2 piece trigger very similar to what we see on the Winchester 1894. This was where the word "Marlin Safety" came into being as without the trigger/sear lever tripped when the lever was closed, the gun would not fire. This was eliminated on the 1892 by changing the firing pin being blocked by the top end of the lever until closed.
The regular tube loader is different than we are used to today, in that the outside tube pulls out to allow you to load ammo into the inner tube. It was a machining nightmare in that there are lengthwise slots about the full length of both the inner & outer tubes. The magazine latch was a knurled lever on one side of the magazine plug. The knurling on both the lever & plug matched. When the tube loader 1891 was brought out, they also added a 32 caliber version. This 32 caliber was made so that either a 32 RF or a 32 Colt center fire, could be fired in the gun by simply exchanging the firing pin.
This version of the magazine tubes are very prone to malfunctioning. There is a small tab on the rear inner end that in conjunction with a tab on the follower allow the follower to be retracted forward by means of the lengthwise inner slot, when the outer tube is pulled forward revealing the loading slot in the inner tube. Things can easily get bent or broken between this tab & the follower's corresponding tab. Then when it is disassembled for repair, things DO NOT go back in exactly reverse order, & again bending or breakage can occur. Many times this old tube can be repaired by a COMPETENT gunsmith.
Standard magazine tubes, inside & outside for 1891 standard version thru model the 97


The screwed in ejector gave way to a "double spring" type in 1897. This double spring version utilized a separate flat spring that was staked into the back side of the new ejector, quite similar to the Winchester model 12 shotgun ejector. The 22 ejector was longer than the 32 ejector to accommodate the shorter case.
The extractor was the same part, (different part numbers on some) for the 22 & 32 calibers. The breech bolt for the 32 had the extractor slot milled outward the distance to accommodate the 22 extractor & the slot was lower allowing the 22 extractor to ride nearer the center of the 32 rim.
A cartridge guide was utilized in the upper LH side of the receiver. It was a flat twisted spring, that laid in a recess in the receiver, & was held in by a screw but used only on the 22 caliber firearm.
To accommodate the 32 caliber in a 22 frame, they machined a recess out on part of the inside of the LH receiver & about the same on the inside of the sideplate to accommodate the larger case rim. The case then being longer, they had to lengthen the lever throw. This was accomplished by milling out a slight amount of the receiver immediately in front of the lever. This allowed the lever to have more forward movement after they made a relief cut on the rear of the lever to give clearance for the takedown screw in this longer throw.
The 32 caliber guns used a “double spring” ejector, which was very similar to the model 1893 centerfire rifles, only that it was slightly narrower.
Receivers had a rounded top with the word “Marlin Safety” prior to 1903 when the Hepburn Rocky Mountain combo Peep/Vee rear sight was introduced. Then it had a flat top to accommodate this peep sight.
This model did not have a cartridge stop, so could only function with 22 Long Rifle cartridges.
As said before, the model 1891 serial numbers did not start with 0. It however appears s/n's are as low as 47,889 have been observed to as high as 77,943 with a total of 18,643 made.
The model 1891 was made in both the straight or 1/2 pistol grip style stocks. Mainsprings & tang screws will be different for these 2 different versions, also the buttstock of course.
Model 1892:
In 1895 a newer version called the 1892 was introduced & ran until 1915. These guns were stamped model 1892 on the upper tang. The main differences were the 2 piece trigger/sear was replaced with a 1 piece trigger/sear & the lever disconnect was abandoned. Marlin however still continued to call it the "Marlin Safety". It appears that they also at this time changed the firing pin so as to not allow a falling hammer to drive the firing pin forward until the lever had totally closed the breech bolt. There were no caliber markings on either the 22 or 32 caliber firearms.
The model 1892 used the same removable sideplate as the 1891, but the gun was still full length.
The first year production 22 caliber still used the screw mounted ejector of the 1891. After that the spring type ejector was utilized, which also could be interchanged & substituted into the older screw type mounting slot. Then in 1907 the newer ejector system now used on the model 39 was introduced. This type is totally different, being inset into a milled slot on the LH side of the receiver & held in place by 2 small screws from the outside.
The model designation was changed in 1905 from model 1892 & or 1897 to just the model 92 or 97.
The cartridge stop of the 1891 was carried over & a cartridge cut-off was added to this model. Approximately the first two years of production saw the screw type ejector used. Then the "double spring" ejector appeared only to be replaced in 1907, by the newer "2 screw ejector" that is still used in the current model 39A's.
The 1892 also came in either the 22 or 32 calibers.
The early models were prone to loosing the complete breech bolt unit & firing pin if the sideplate was removed or the takedown screw came loose. So the later versions had a lip machined on the back side of the breech bolt that engaged into a recess in the lower receiver/TG unit. This allowed the breech bolt to remain in the disassembled firearm, but could be removed if the lever screw was removed allowing the bolt to be removed from the rear.
The magazine assembly of the later 1891 was carrier over & used on the 1892 & 1897.
A cartridge stop was added, so the gun could function with 22 Short. Long or Long Rifle ammo.
Model 1892 32 caliber, non-takedown, note recess in back of receiver to accommodate wider bolt protrusion Model 1897 shown taken down, with patent date visible
 

Model 1897
When the 1897 came along in that year, it was what we know as the true “Take Down”, as loosening the sideplate screw allows the firearm to be disassembled into 2 halves with the barrel & front receiver unit in one unit & the buttstock & trigger housing unit to be in the other unit.
The 1897 was made only in 22 caliber.
The magazine tube assembly was the same as with the 91 & 92’s, except for the last 2 years of production, which utilized the same basic magazine except it had a button at the front for the release.
Shown here is our magazine conversion assembly #39-49/50, replacing the original 91, 92, 97, & 39 22 RF magazine units with the new style tube unit, as used on the 39As. We also supply a new replacement ring



Model 39:
The model 39 was born in 1922. It was identical to the pistol grip, octagon barrel model 97 version. The 24” octagon barrel was all that was available. The rear of the pistol grip lever had the slight S curve to it where it met the lower tang as did the model 97. Top of the tangs were all marked Marlin/MOD 39. Some of the top tangs were also marked with a * which indicated that the gun was a near perfect as it could be.
Breech blocks were still made in the configuration as previously & were weak enough that breakage could occur if using Hi Speed ammo. These were identified by either no prefix to the serial number or a prefix of “S”. In 1932 the machining was changed & it was then acceptable for & recommended to be used with Hi Speed ammo, the serial number prefix of HS was then added.
Magazine tubes were a carry over from the late 97 model.
Magazine tube locking system for late model 97 & 39


Model 39A:
In 1939 the 39A was introduced & it has went thru many variations up to 1988. For the first year of production the mainspring was the same flat type as used on the predecessors. After that, in 1940, a coil type mainspring was utilized. This gun was an Improved version of the 39. In reality it was probably designed as a more manufacturing friendly firearm than the previous models.
The magazine unit on the 39A was changed to the removable bayonet type retainer shown above, that we normally see now on most all the 22 rifles.
No guns were made from 1942 to 1944 during WW II. In 1945 the receiver was changed from a case hardened color to simply a black oxide type finish.
It boasted a round barrel, beavertail forearm & a classic pistol grip. In 1961 a deluxe PG version was introduced. There was a “Mountie” version with a straight grip also in the mix.
In 1983 the 2,000,000th model 39 was made.
Model 39AS:
In 1988 the “S” version was introduced. This was the addition of a hammer block safety & a rebounding hammer.
The later 39A (2nd variation) had the lever support lug integral with the LH side of the receiver.
The cartridge stop, which is located in the upper top section of the LH receiver consisted of initially as with the earlier versions, a twisted flat piece of spring that was screwed into the receiver at the rear. Then a machined square bar that had a coil spring behind it to apply tension. Then finally it was eliminated all together.
Copyright © 2004-2006 Wisner's Inc. All Rights Reserved
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Last modified 12-25-2006
LeeRoy Wisner
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Old April 20, 2009, 03:46 PM   #2153
tig56
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Need some contact points, please!!

The Marlin Model 39 I've been discussing and have thankfully received such good information on, is available for sale. I would love to help my friend find an interested party. Outside of the obvious Google searches and forums, I want to ask the members here if they have any additional areas that I can make the information available. Atwoodt has given me some good ideas, that I'm very thankful for! His one most valuable suggestion is to get the word out and network with as many groups as possible. I would greatly appreciate any ideas and suggestions!

Besides the THR, please feel free to send ideas to my email address:
tigwelder56@gmail.com

Thank you for all the help!

Tig
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Old April 20, 2009, 05:21 PM   #2154
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Tig, you know that there's a trading post here where you can post guns for sale, right? Here's the one for rifles.

Just follow the directions carefully: the state from which gun will be sold must be included in subject line, etc.

Once you (or your friend, who can register) post the ad, link it here so people in the club can find it.
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Old April 20, 2009, 06:09 PM   #2155
tig56
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Thanks!

No, I wasn't aware of that yet. I'm still a relative newbie on this forum! I'll check into that and see what I can get set up! You folks are great!! Thanks so much for all your help. You've made all the difference in the world!

Tig

PS: Are you free living or parasitic? LOL!
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Old April 20, 2009, 06:21 PM   #2156
Nematocyst
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Tig, I'm a free-living parasite, but explanation would require a seriously OT, lengthy essay.

PS: I just realized that you're asking about my user name.

You may be - like others - confusing "nematocyst" (part of a stinging cell in jellyfish and their relatives)
with "nematode", which can be either free-living or parasitic.
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:13 PM   #2157
Mal H
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His user name used to be Nematocyst-870 (or something like that). I would call him the "Shotgun Stinger"!
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:20 PM   #2158
tig56
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LOL!

I guess we can safely say, whatever description we may decide to use, you're a "Pain" in something regardless of where you land!! Yah or Nah? You guys are a hoot!!
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Old April 20, 2009, 11:48 PM   #2159
Nematocyst
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Quote:
... you're a "Pain" in something regardless of where you land!!
There are those here who will definitely agree.

Mal is right. I started out here as Nem-870, referring to my favorite long gun of that time, a Remington 870.

Some time after, I came to my senses, realized I am a rifle guy at heart, sold the shotgun, bought lever guns, and never looked back.

Life is good.
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Old April 21, 2009, 06:39 PM   #2160
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Just made a deal on this 1953 39A.....It's had the wood slimmed down a bit and the barrel shortened to 18".....

Should be real handy!

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Old April 21, 2009, 07:33 PM   #2161
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That's a beautiful rifle! Whomever did the modifications obviously knew what they were doing, looks great.
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Old April 21, 2009, 08:01 PM   #2162
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Quote:
That's a beautiful rifle! Whomever did the modifications obviously knew what they were doing, looks great.
I agree
Looking forward to it's arrival....
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Old April 21, 2009, 08:20 PM   #2163
Lee51
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Searching for a 39 Mountie

I am a new THR guy and am the proud owner of a fine 39 A as well as a 39 M. I gave the 39 M to my favorite (only) son and he loves it...I miss it ! I am looking for a great condition late 60's -early 70's Golden Mountie..with good/interesting wood.
Thx for your help fellow 39-ers !
Lee
Raleigh,NC
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Old April 21, 2009, 08:39 PM   #2164
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39A/39M...I have another question: did Marlin make fancy grade stocks and forearms? If so, does anyone know where I can purchase them?
thx
Lee
Raleigh, NC
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Old April 22, 2009, 03:53 AM   #2165
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Quote:
and the barrel shortened to 18".....
Yeah, now that's what I'm talkin' about.
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Old April 22, 2009, 08:40 PM   #2166
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Questions about my Marlin Mod 39 - star

Howdy. My ex's grand-daddy gave me this very nice rifle before he died. I'm pretty sure it's all original. Its been well cared for and has no rust anywhere. Rifling is crisp. Bluing is all good but I don't know how it could be rated by percentage as I've seen in other posts. I'm interested in how you'd determine that. This is a star-tanged Mod 39 with a target inlaid into the bottom of the stock (a circle of white ash with an ebony center?) I don't know what kind of woods they are, but I'd like to. The carburizing color on this central mechanism (waddaya call this part--the chamber) looks beautiful. Ok, duh, I found the serial number: S5940. What year was this made? The lever action is smooth and flawless. It has never been dry fired. The only discernible problem with the rifle is that the butt plate is missing the part below the lower screw. Should I replace this broken butt plate? If I don't find a job soon, I may be forced to auction this off. I'd hate to lose this firearm! I can't imagine a better 22 to have. If I have to sell it, where could I put this up for auction? Thanks for your help.
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Old April 23, 2009, 11:10 AM   #2167
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Hi Desert Plinker
Looks like your's was make in '59 - do whatever you can to keep it!
Here's a link to a chart shows the year of mfg.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=126777

Post a picture if you can!

Last edited by T750; April 23, 2009 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Add a line...
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Old April 23, 2009, 04:45 PM   #2168
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I think his is older than that. The S prefix for 1959 was the second time the S was used. Originally it was used to designate one of the "Superior" grade 39's made from 1922 to 1938. The star on the tang indicates that his is one of those earlier models. My best guess would be somewhere around 1924 or 1925.

Desert Plinker - I assume your rifle has an octagonal barrel, right?
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Old April 23, 2009, 04:58 PM   #2169
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Wow. Another antique in da' club house. Very cool.

Desert Plinker, any pics?

How does it shoot?

Quote:
If I don't find a job soon, I may be forced to auction this off.
Oh, no ... don't do it.

Sell your car first, or your soul.

But don't let go of that rifle.
You'd so regret it later.

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Old April 23, 2009, 10:27 PM   #2170
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I've got one of those old 39's. Perfect condittion. Made about 1926 as far as I can figure. Beautiful gun. If you decide you have to sell I'm at jwmtx@localnet.com. James
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Old April 24, 2009, 01:36 AM   #2171
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Has octagonal barrel. Drives nails from bench.

Yes, its got an octagonal barrel. I'd be really surprised if it was made in the 50's. Dude, weren't we building rockets by then? Opening the action, each piece of this Model 39 looks to be hand-filed. I imagine the gunsmith disassembling, refiling, reassembling, working the action with a trained ear, disassembling, refiling, reassembling... This firearm has the feel of something from a more distant era. I'd bet on the 1925-1926 range. Is it possible to confirm this? Did they keep any records in New Haven that survive to this day? Please tell me whether I should replace that butt plate or leave it as is. Nemo, I hear ya...selling an old rifle must be like the 11th or 12th Commandment, but selling your soul messes you up with the First one. Let's keep it all in perspective, eh?
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Old April 24, 2009, 03:01 AM   #2172
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DP, if you must sell it, contact jwmtx.

At least we'll know it has a good home.

Quote:
I imagine the gunsmith disassembling, refiling, reassembling,
working the action with a trained ear, disassembling, refiling, reassembling...
Makes me want to take mine apart with some
fine grit emery cloth for a bit of adjustment.
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Old April 24, 2009, 12:31 PM   #2173
Mal H
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I'm sure someone somewhere has compiled a list of manufacturing dates for the old model 39's. All the lists I've run across seem to start well after the actual beginning of the line (usually 1946).

You might try writing Marlin first. Or ask the question in the more specialized forums such as The Marlin Owners Forum, or Rimfire Central.
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Old April 25, 2009, 08:46 PM   #2174
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Tracy's 39 thread

Yes, Tracy; that is a very informative thread. It answered several questions I had. I'm still not clear on what year they started to produce, and what year they stopped with the "S" designation. I can not understand why they started making the different bolt since the change was really insugnificant. Your write up was very good. Where did you get all the information? James
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Old April 25, 2009, 11:09 PM   #2175
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Tracy's thread? Who is Tracy, and which thread is it? Sounds informative.
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