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Old July 30, 2015, 07:40 PM   #1
judgedelta
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Smith 625 question

I have bought, but not received yet, a 625 from one of the guys on the forum. I read on Wikipedia that .45 ACP will headspace on the chambers, but not eject. Is this the case? Thanks.
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Old July 30, 2015, 07:41 PM   #2
243winxb
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Yes, you need moon clips.
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Old July 30, 2015, 08:49 PM   #3
rcmodel
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Yes.
.45 ACP has no rim, so the ejector can't eject them without a half or full-moon clip.

However, you can easily flick the empties out with a fingernail.
And some of them may even fall out when you tip the muzzle up.

On the other hand, many for the recent 625's have excess headspace, and/ or too short frame mounted firing pins, and may not be reliable without clips to properly headspace the cartridges.

rc
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Old July 30, 2015, 09:10 PM   #4
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And if you reload, trimming or not trimming cases will affect how things work without a moon clip.
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Old July 30, 2015, 09:16 PM   #5
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You would have too find some .45 ACP cases that are too long first.

I've never seen one in 55 years of reloading them.

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Old July 30, 2015, 09:27 PM   #6
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Recommended Moons

Ranch makes good moons that work with just about any 45 ACP case.

RIMZ is a flexible synthetic moon that is easy to load and unload without tools.

There nice for shooting off a bench.

The metal moons are best for other times.
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Old July 30, 2015, 09:39 PM   #7
Jim Watson
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rc, I had a few range pickup Hornady head stamp .45s that were over length and would not gauge or breech up. Rare but not completely unknown.
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Old July 30, 2015, 10:07 PM   #8
judgedelta
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Thanks all. I've got moon clips coming with the revolver and have 45 AR cases from Starline, but I was just wondering. My father had a Colt .45 from WW2 that would shoot ACP sometime, but not reliably, so I was just wondering if in an emergency they would go off. This is a pre-lock model.

Last edited by judgedelta; July 30, 2015 at 10:08 PM. Reason: addendum
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Old July 30, 2015, 10:14 PM   #9
rcmodel
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Only way to know for sure is get it, and try it.

Some of them do, and some of them don't!

All the old ones did.
I'm really surprised your fathers WWII Colt didn't.

That is VERY unusual for either a 1917 Colt or S&W from WWI.
Except for the earliest Colt 1917's they were headspaced correctly, and expected to work reliably without clips.

Early Colt chambers were bored straight through, and cartridges would fall right through without clips.
But they soon corrected that after S&W showed them the way to do it.

They also re-called all of them they could find and replaced the cylinders with properly chambered ones.

Rc
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Last edited by rcmodel; July 30, 2015 at 10:24 PM.
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Old July 30, 2015, 11:53 PM   #10
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I recently picked up a 625 JM and haven't had the chance to make a dent in my ammo can full of 45acp SWC's!

In my defense, it was out getting a smooth faced trigger and some action work.

Monday, come hell or high water!
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Old July 31, 2015, 12:48 AM   #11
rcmodel
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Just another thought.
My 625-6 Mountain Gun is unreliable without clips.

My buddy's 625JM is only semi-reliable.

My 1917 S&W was 110% reliable without clips.

And several old Model 25's were too.

I think it has more to do with the frame mounted firing pins in the new ones then anything.

rc
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Old July 31, 2015, 01:20 AM   #12
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Is there any 45 Auto Rim ammunition available that does not cost like a moon shot? I have an S&W 22-4 with a nice SA trigger, but I'm sick of half-moon and full moon clips. I only like Ranch Products 2-rounders.
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Old July 31, 2015, 01:39 AM   #13
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No.

It is what it is.

.45 AR ammo is a chump change market for the manufactures.

You are lucky anyone still makes it.

Regardless what it costs.

What you need to do is get yourself a good mooner & de-mooner tool set.

They make loading and unloading clips painless, almost fun!

rc
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Old July 31, 2015, 06:13 AM   #14
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In my opinion, anyone buying a revolver chambered for a rimless cartridge would be crazy not to make full use of moon clips. They simply make reloading the gun much easier.

I have a 610 - the smaller brother to the 625 - and I think it's much faster to reload than some of my other revolvers which use speedloaders (if anything).
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Old July 31, 2015, 07:59 AM   #15
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For reason known only to S&W the chambers on the 625 are all over the place when it comes to depth of the chamber. Some will headspace on the cartridge mouth, other will not. The firing pin may or may not be too short and that is an easy fix but the chamber depth is cured only with moon clips.

I have S&W 45 ACP revolves spanning nearly a century, and the all headspace properly BUT, they are all blued revolvers. Not sure how or why S&W messed with the stainless ones.

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Old July 31, 2015, 08:05 AM   #16
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+1 Some will fire without clips and some won't. I have an early production Model of 1988 625-2 that will fire rounds without clips about 30% of the time. With clips it is absolutely 100% reliable. It also came with chambers that were so tight that after firing 4 or 5 clips you could not insert another loaded clip unless you punched out the chambers with a brush - which required me to carry a brush whenever I shot a USPSA match withbit and clean the chambers on every other stage. I fixed that with a finishing reamer. Specs on the 625s are all over the map. With the introduction of frame mounted firing pins the situation got even more annoying.
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Old July 31, 2015, 08:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monac View Post
Is there any 45 Auto Rim ammunition available that does not cost like a moon shot? I have an S&W 22-4 with a nice SA trigger, but I'm sick of half-moon and full moon clips. I only like Ranch Products 2-rounders.
If you decide to get rid of the 22-4, I know several folks who would help you.

Kevin
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Old August 1, 2015, 09:46 AM   #18
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The 625 is a great gun, but you do need moon clips. I mean, really!

Mine is a JM model that I did (if I do say so myself) a super smooth and light action job on, using Jerry's springs. The gun will set off Federal primers seated all the way 100% of the time, but it's erratic with Remington, Winchester or CCI.
That's not a problem, since any defensive shooting I do will be with my carry gun or something reliable that I pull out of the safe.

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Old August 1, 2015, 10:14 AM   #19
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Contact these guys for moon clips. Last time I ordered from them 100 moon clips cost $20.

http://www.ranchproducts.com

I built a mooner to load them until 45 GAP came out, I now use GAP cases because I can moon/demoon by hand.

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Old August 1, 2015, 11:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monac
Is there any 45 Auto Rim ammunition available that does not cost like a moon shot?
If you handload, you can get 45 Auto Rim cases from Starline.

Current listed cost is $179.50/1000, just a little more than regular .45 ACP.

Revolvers are generally easier on brass than autos, so at normal .45 ACP pressures and using a taper crimp, each case should last for many, MANY reloadings.
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Old August 1, 2015, 12:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmodel View Post

What you need to do is get yourself a good mooner & de-mooner tool set.

rc
For sure.

I keep a bunch of ammunition pre loaded in clips at all times for my 625. I figure if I am out of pre loaded clips, I am out of ammunition for the gun regardless how much loose 45 ACP I have on hand.

Just as if I did not have any 357 Magnum for my 686.
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Old August 1, 2015, 12:18 PM   #22
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Black Hills used to make 45 AR as did Fiocchi but the only ones loading now is CorBon. I've 2 625 and use both 45 acp and 45 AR in them. The Rimz moon clip are good for range use but if you go to the metal clips the tool from mooncliptool.com works quite well.
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Old August 1, 2015, 12:30 PM   #23
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FWIW, the older style half moons are much easier to load and unload. If you buy any, be sure to get quality ones. There used to be some unblued aftermarket ones that werent heat treated correctly and would not stay tensioned properly and would bend easily. The factory Smith & Wesson or surplus military ones worked very well. The half moons are a little less bulky to carry.

I'd be temped to get some of the Auto Rim cases also. They require a different shell holder but otherwise use the same dies and components.
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