M&p 340

[mecenas]

Please look at page 19, post by jfh in his photo#3 he shows the wear points, and among them if you look at two gold dots above the trigger on the left side of the frame you will notice just behind the second dot an arched white line below the recoil plate. That is what we refer to as the contact point of the cylinder with that exact area of the frame when the cylinder is opened.
Any amount of cylinder end shake will move it a bit to the rear causing the rear surface of the cylinder to touch that very area of the frame.
As you can see from this post and others - quite normal.
If you do not have that it only means that you have a lot less cylinder end shake and when the cylinder is opened and pushed to the rear, it does not at all touch the frame.
I hope that explains the problem. Unfortunately I am not quite versed with a photoshop to use a moving arrow. Sorry.

[bigsid]

Hope this pic helps see it a little better, thanks for the responses, shame a new gun has a mark on it but as long as it functions properly. This is my ccw and I expected it to get a little banged up. I own a couple other revolvers but they are stainless and I guess you cant see it as easily on them.

[DAdams]

For the clarification. That is not where I was looking, that looked like glare to me. Now I see and understand. The end shake makes sense. Anyone try a black Sharpie yet.

That is gnarly looking, I don't like it. I would think that the DLC would be a bit more robust.

[Marvin KNox]

I have the same finish scratch on my 340. I open the cylinder every time I pick up the gun for any reason just to make sure that there are snap caps in the cylinder and not carry rounds. I have no idea how many times I've opened it - but it's a lot of times.

Rotating the cylinder while it is open is the cause. It seems perfectly normal to me now that I've looked at it more closely - following these posts. On mine, it's a perfect cresent and you wouldn't know that it didn't come from the factory that way.

It seems that it can't be helped - especially if you practice your reloads a lot.

MARV

[mecenas]

..and now change of the subject. I recently replaced the standard dot size X/S front sight with a Big Dot. What a difference. The overall dimensions are either the same ot very, very close but the sight picture is a lot better.
This revolver now shoots exctly at the POA. CT grips are a big help in sighting.
Just cover the center of the target with the big dot and gently squeeze the trigger - that is it. I think that an accuracy problem with J frame revolvers has finally been solved.
The replacement is not difficult - the only part requiring some skill and attention is drilling of the new Big Dot sight tennon. They come without a hole because there are variances in the hole location among various revolvers.

[XDShooter07]

Mecenas: Does the big dot overfill the gutter of the rear sight? Maybe you could get some pictures of the sights lined up; I've been interested in this for a while. Is POA on top of the front sight or are you hitting what you're covering? And what grain and load are you using that's shooting to POA for you; I know you haven't had it long but have you noticed any difference between different bullet grains if your shooting them or between .38+P and .357; standard .38 for that matter? Thanks.

[mecenas]

The big dot fills the rear channel just like it was made to be and, per instructions I cover the target with the dot with horizontal shoulders of the rear sight channel at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock positions respectively. I can hit the 10/9 circles all day long. So far I tried up to 15 yards.

The best all around cartridge for me is good old Eldorado PMC Starfire 125 grain 38 Spl. +P with very mild recoil. I also fired about 100 rounds of American Eagle 38 Spl. 130 grain with truncated cone bullets - just as accurate.
I can use the Big Dot now without the laser quite well and quite accurately so the little 340 MP substituted my 32 Seecamp for most of the concealed duty.

[Marvin KNox]

I’ve had my 340 to the range quite a few times now and have it sighted in with the laser. I have no trouble getting 4” or so groups out to around 10 yards. I consider that good enough accuracy for a center of chest hit on a bad guy if it ever comes to that.

The trouble is – that’s with fairly slow fire and usually a “staged” trigger pull. That wont gets it in a real life situation.

Are the great groups that you guys mention with a fairly fast and continuous trigger pull or a “staged pull?

When I shoot with a faster and continuous trigger pull, I invariably pull off target due to the very heavy trigger. If I raise the gun from my waist and fire quickly as in a real life situation, it’s even worse. I’d like to get to the “quad-five” groups that have been talked about - out to the ten yards or so. But I can see that it’s going to be a slow process.

I try to train with the laser at home but I can see that the dot moves on the wall when I try things at a faster rate- even with a gorilla grip (and I have a fairly strong grip).

I’ve tried a few different grips. But I’m limited because the laser button must be pushed properly with however I grip the gun.

I know this has to do with basic pistol shooting and no so much the 340. But the hundred pound trigger on this light gun is a whole lot different than other guns. I sure never had troubles like this with my 1911’s or even other double actions.

I hope I don’t have to go the lighter springs route. I understand that that can lead to dependability problems.

Any suggestions on taming this little gun with the big trigger would help. Any good websites or books also.

I may need some lessons from a pro if I can’t learn to fire this thing quickly and accurately soon.
I don’t want to build any more “bad” muscle memory or shooting habits.

Thanks!

MARV

[jfh]

Marvin Knox:

Depending on how many rounds you've fired, and how much your hand is conditioned, needing to stage the trigger to achieve your group sounds pretty typical to me.

Although my 340 now has about 1200 rounds through it, it still is "notchy" and my "quad five" groups are not as tight as with my 640 (with about 14,000 rounds through it). For example, I may well have one 'flyer' in those five shots that makes the group larger. That's the level of proficiency I choose to shoot at, for now. IOW, developing the training routine for this kind of proficiency is a matter of continuous adjustment. The main thing is to make those changes in the mental framework of (the training theory of) "successive approximations" so you are always rewarding yourself. Depending on how many rounds you've shot through your 340 and how many dry-fires you've done, the internals are probably still fairly unpolished. I would consider getting an action job done--but one without new springs. Find a reliable S&W 'smith near you, and work with him.

Here's some more free advice--take it for what it is worth:

A. Continue to work on hand conditioning--

1. Get a "squeezer grip", like this one.

Exercise with it whenever you are 'sitting around, doing nothing'--i.e., watching TV, etc., etc.

2. Shoot as much as you can afford--right now, if you are NOT reloading, I would shoot the softball loads--e.g., the 148-gr. DEWC bullseye cartridge--and use any grip or technique until your hand is well-conditioned.

B. Since A-2. is expensive, consider getting going with reloading.

1. You can get minimally outfitted for under $200.00, I suspect--Get a minimal Lee Turret kit (but the 4-die version), a set of 38-357 dies, some new Starline brass, WSPs, and a 4-lb. jug of AA#5.

2. There's numerous discussions on replica reload recipes in the reloading forum, but here is a link to a discussion of the "standard" recipe to replicate the GDSB 38+P 135-gr. PD round. You could back this load up a full grain or more to get a softer-recoil round with the 140LTC bullet.

3. This round can be readily built for about 12 cents a round--which is a better price than any "retail" ammo and provides an excellent 'replica reload' round at about 6.7 to 7.0 gr.

Needless to say, this will allow one to shoot a lot more--and that "quantity" approach, when combined with the training agenda, will help you grow your proficiency.

Good luck!

Jim H.

[Gary C]

Jim (jfh),
If a 38+P recipe is loaded into a 357 casing, what effect will it have
on the overall performance of the "new" cartridge?

I have been following your threads on reloading. GOOD stuff. I have been shooting the 642
for about 6 months. My wife will now get the 642 and I have a new 340 coming next week.
I also reload so I can shoot cheaper and more frequently. I'm looking forward to your next
reload installment.

Gary C

[jfh]

Gary C: About shooting 38 Special recipes in 357 cases:

The short answer to your question is that the pressure goes down because the volume of the 357 case is bigger--so, more powder is needed to bring the performance back up. There are other (internal) 'combustion' changes of course, because of the higher-pressure design parameters of the 357 Magnum, and these have an impact on perceived performance.

A longer answer is that, if replicating the (external) ballistics of a given round with the new recipe is your goal, then the only way to sort that out is test recipe variants by using a chrono.

I began doing this by first discussing this topic--the 38-Special-Loads-In-A-357-Case topic--in a post as a newbie over at handloads.com. (That forum has some of the most rational and advanced reloaders around, and publishes all information.) After receiving reassurances that it can be done safely (the notion of low-charge pressure spikes blowing guns up appears to be an urban myth, at least for handgun straightwall cartridges), I then selected a powder on the Speer 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum GDSB 357 charts--and set about filling in the middle.

That powder was Power Pistol. Another reloader had also worked with it, and he found it was the only powder Speer listed that make factory velocities. The trouble is, PP feels nothing like the factory 38+P round. It's recoil impulse is quick and sharp, even in 38 Special +P pressures--and that characteristic is magnified in the 357 cases. The related problem, of course, is that 357 Magnum loads are typically firewall loads, and using slower powders in longer barrels.

I was obtaining good subjective recoil results with AA#5 in the 38 Special Case, so I moved that over to 357 cases and worked up a load that felt identical to the factory round. Then I started chrono-'g it, and finally I tested it with different 140-gr. Lead bullets.

AA#5 was NOT listed by Speer as a 357 powder in its GDSB pdf, and other than the AA manuals listings, it was not used much for 357 Magnum. The AA listings were the typical firewall loads--e.g., in 3.2, up to about 43,000 CUP, so again, it was "filling in the middle."


A 357 Magnum "replica reload" for the GDSB 38+P case does feel a bit "fuller" typically, but that characteristic is minimal.

By this time, my hand was reasonably conditioned--e.g., about 3000 rounds had been loaded and shot.

Since I now had two practice rounds replicating the 38+P practice round, I could practice to my heart's content with my 340 and not have to put up with the crud ring that comes with shooting 38 Special cases in a 357 cylinder.

FWIW, right now there's a THR reloading post floating along about WSF; that presents a significantly different approach to practice rounds, and that powder is largely ignored in revolver cartridges so far.

Glad to see you getting the 340, Gary--I remain totally satisfied with mine--it now has about 1300 rounds fired through it, and it remains tight, etc., etc.

This "replica recoil" training regimen works: I shot about 350 rounds through 3 j-frames yesterday, with no soreness--and that included about 100 rounds of "FBI loads" running at both 800 fps (the standard 38+P) load and 900 fps (an enhanced 357-case load) that were fired in the 340. No soreness, and no undue discomfort in the range session.

Jim H.

[FranklyTodd]

I shot about 350 rounds through 3 j-frames yesterday, with no soreness--and that included about 100 rounds of "FBI loads" running at both 800 fps (the standard 38+P) load and 900 fps (an enhanced 357-case load) that were fired in the 340. No soreness, and no undue discomfort in the range session.

No offense, Jim, but have you considered that you might have nerve damage? Can you feel your hands at all?

[jfh]

Well, actually I can still feel my hands, as the dry skin from frequent gun-cleaning chemicals still can crack the callouses.

However, two new callouses are showing up this year. so all is well....at least in those appendages, if not in others.

Jim

[Marvin KNox]

Jim,

I’ve probably done a few thousand trigger cycles and the trigger seems pretty smooth. I’m sure it could use a good cleaning about now and a good lube. Any ideas along those lines? I’ve never had it apart at all and I’m not looking forward to it. Will I find metal shavings after three of four thousand cycles like it has? What to use to clean? What to use to lube? Don’t know much about the innards of revolvers – but it seems that a very easy moving cylinder would be almost as important to make for a light trigger pull as springs. Right???? Any ideas would be appreciated.

The trouble with these triggers is that it takes so much pressure to start the cycle – then they drop to almost nothing just before the shot. There’s so much finger grip pressure being exerted that it throws things off when it breaks down to little or nothing. At least that seems to be the problem to me.

I’m taking your advice on “working out”. I don’t have a gripper exactly like that that you show. But the one I have can be squeezed with the palm/thumb area opposed opposite to the trigger finger. (If that makes sense.) It can also be generally used to build a strong grip.

I have a strong grip already – but perhaps not as strong as could be if I exercised the “trigger finger” properly. It does seem to me that that would do some good as far as the muscle exertion before and after the break. I’m no physics major, but it seems to me that if one had a strong enough “finger grip” less exertion would be being used before the letting off to the light pressure stage of the trigger.

Staging the trigger makes it more like a single action. But that can’t always be done. If one really “jerks” the trigger as in fast shooting – that is where the problem lies.

I’m now on a steady exercise program along with practice with the laser on “real” quick moving targets like I spend the evening with when watching T.V.

I’ll keep at it.

MARV

[jfh]

I had a minor action job done on my M&P 340, and then I dry-fired it perhaps 300-500 times; just enough to try to imprint the trigger cycle.

Then I started shooting it. If you look at my pics here, you will see it is amazingly clean after 1000 rounds. The gunsmith made no comment, BTW, about finding the action messy when he did the polishing.

So, while I see no reason not to pull the sideplate if you have the proper screwdriver bit, I wouldn't necessarily expect to have to do a full-bore cleanup. I had expected to have to do that because I am one of those "if-some-is-good-more-is-better" people when it comes to cleaners and lubricants--but they sure drained right on through, I think.

I still have trouble with "muscle differentiation"--e.g., keeping the laser dot from bobbling when I stroke it while keeping the grip firm. But, it does keep getting better.

Jim H.

[Luke_Y]

Anyone know an online distributer who has the 357 GDHP SB IN STOCK?

I can find the 38 several places but no 357 local or on line.

Thanks...

[Willy G.]

Hi all, I'm soon to get a 340. Had a sp101 and it was nice but I need something a little lighter. The sp was quite a hand full with 357. Is the 340 as bad as everybody says or is this just hype. I like the option of being able to have 2 types of ammo in 1 gun and the ability to have a 357 anywhere in the line up I wish. I also think if you gonna get a 357 you'd better practice with 357. Thanks for the great site. Willy G

[Schofield3]

Thought I’d share my 340pd pic’s, I love this snubbie.

[SQ Stalker]

Trigger
I used Wolff springs to lighten the trigger on my 340. It went from over 13lbs. to 10lbs. Its a noticable help but still could be lower. I have fired 500 rds on the new trigger and haven't had one hiccup. As well as many dry fire sessions.

The recoil is not that punishing. I just started easy and worked up to Buffalo Bore HVY .357.

Enjoy.

[Schofield3]

[Schofield3]

Alright looks like I got the hang of posting photos, hope you all like the 357

[FranklyTodd]

The sp was quite a hand full with 357. Is the 340 as bad as everybody says or is this just hype.

It's bad - much worse than steel frame. Yet, as you can see, many of us find it worth it.

I also think if you gonna get a 357 you'd better practice with 357.

If you mean practice exclusively with .357, or even a LOT with .357, I couldn't disagree more. What is this based on? I fire 5-10 of my "carry" load each session, the rest is plain old .38 WWB or reloads.

[magic]

Forgive me for posting these questions if it's already been covered. I have been reviewing this site for days whenever I have a few minutes, but haven't had enough time to read it all yet. This is my first post here too. Thank you to everyone for participating in this thread, it's been a big help so far!

I have a few questions.....

I am about ready to buy a M&P 340, but can't decide if I want the CT grips or not. For one thing, my pants don't usually have that big of pockets, and want to mostly pocket carry. I am worried that the grip being a little bit bigger (and rubber) might make it difficult to draw. I have had a M&P 340 with standard grips in my pocket and it fit okay. It was pushing it because of the pocket mouth size, but it didn't look bad. I was in the local gun store, so I didn't have much time to really play with it. They didn't have one with the CT grips in stock to try, I wish they did. So, is the extra thickness going to be a problem?

Also, does the switch get bumped on when in a holster? It seems like certain holsters could activate the laser while carrying. Is that a non issue?

Finally, I am thinking about having this laser on all the time. I could imagine there might be situations where you need to draw and aim, but you don't want to give your position away with the laser. If that's the case, is it easy to turn on or off in a situation like that? I haven't actually seen the on/off switch, so I'm curious about how easily accessible it is.

Thanks for th help everyone, I'm really looking forward to getting my new baby!

Magic

[hornblower]

magic

I have the factory installed CT laser grips.

I carry everyday in a Mikka square cut pocket holster.

The grips add practically nothing to the width of the grip.

They seem to be made of hard plastic, not rubber, but I can't be sure.

I have no problem getting the 340 in and out of my pocket, quickly.

The "switch" is a button on the front side of the grip and when you grip the revolver the button is depressed and the laser comes on.

I love the gun and I believe that you will as well.

[magic]

Thanks hornblower,

I am glad to hear that the grip size probably won't be an issue.

As for the switch, I am aware of the grip switch. I thought there is also a master on/off switch that would override the grip switch, so you could handle the grip without the laser going on. Is that not accurate information? I swear I saw something like this in a Crimson Trace user manual. I though it was on the bottom of the grip, or something like that.

magic