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Old January 18, 2010, 08:13 PM   #1276
LoneStarWings
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Quote:
Hello everyone...hope you can give me some feedback. I'm 12 hours away from picking up a S&W 360 M&P. I typically CCW a Taurus 605 (24 oz.) and am comfortable with shooting 38 +P and 357 110 gr. from it. I am hoping to have the 360 M&P as an extra backup gun for warmer CA weather and so my wife (who's a novice) can utilize a weapon when we travel together.

My question concerns recoil comparison between the two. If I were to only use standard 38 Spls in the 360 M&P, what would the recoil resemble most in the Taurus 605--would it be the same as shooting 38 +Ps or closer to the 357 110 gr.?

Time is of the essence and I would really appreciate guidance because I wouldn't want to hand a canon to my inexperienced wife.
I have never shot a 24 oz gun with .38/.357, but I have with .40 S&W in a semi auto. I would say that a standard .38 in the 340/360 is about the same as .40 in a 24oz semi-auto. I can shoot a hundred rounds of either over 30-45 minutes without sweating.
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Old January 18, 2010, 09:19 PM   #1277
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Time is of the essence and I would really appreciate guidance because I wouldn't want to hand a canon to my inexperienced wife.
It's an excellent revolver but I wouldn't count on it becoming her favorite unless she is pragmatic about personal protection and is prepared for a physics lesson.

I would recommend a 642 or even heavier with standard .38s. 2.5 to five ounces makes quite a difference.

Why don't you put the brakes on and spend some time at the range with some rental snubs with various ammunition ratings, until you have a clear avenue to travel?

I'm also not certain why you would select a snub with a hammer? Centennial versions (or bodyguards which are SA capable) which are DAO make better purse and or pocket guns since the hammer won't snag or get caught on something. You can also discharge one while in the pocket if needed. The chances of using the gun in single action mode for PD is slim to none. The trigger is extremely light in that mode and the chances of an accidental discharge are highly increased.

Unless you are getting one heck of a deal I would reconsider your options and try out a few revolvers that would appeal to your wife and SHE is comfortable with. These are not necessarily the type of revolver you would start a novice with. With standard boot grips even in standard .38 spl rounds they are impressive and the felt recoil could be a big turnoff.

That said you could keep it for yourself and then get her something that works and appeals to her sensibilities.
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Last edited by DAdams; January 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM.
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Old January 18, 2010, 10:43 PM   #1278
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Thanks DAdams & LoneStarWings...I think I will take it slower and halt the purchase until I can gather more information. At first, I was thinking more of me handling the m&p 360 but on further thought, if my wife ever needed to use it, it may not be very pleasant to possibly injuring herself.

As for the trigger versus the m&p 340, I just wanted the option of firing SA if necessary.
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Old January 23, 2010, 11:58 PM   #1279
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As for the trigger versus the m&p 340, I just wanted the option of firing SA if necessary.
That's what we all think at first...then we think it through and realize if you have time (and fine motor control) available to cock a hammer for a single action shot, you should probably just be bugging the heck out of there.

Big fan of the 340mp here and also feel the recoil on much of the interwebs is overstated.

That said, you will not be firing 100 357 mag rounds in a session. I nearly guarantee it.

You definitely need to get your hands on one and set your wife's expectations appropriately - tell her it's a fire breathing dragon and to hold on tight - only load one round initially, and do yourself a favor and work your way up from standard pressure 38. You're better off overstating the recoil to her than letting her think it's going to be as mild as a heavier gun.

ETA: Also, I recommend not loading up on a huge stockpile of Magtech 158gr 357 magnum SJSP ammo - I'm not convinced they are crimped tightly enough, as I had one bullet jump case on me by about 2mm turning the fabled 'always go bang' revolver into a locked up wheelgun. YMMV
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Old January 24, 2010, 01:16 PM   #1280
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Good advice Four Knives! Thanks for you input and stopping by.
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis
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Old January 24, 2010, 04:16 PM   #1281
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Big fan of the 340mp here and also feel the recoil on much of the interwebs is overstated.
I agree. I shot mine for the first time yesterday and It was pretty harsh, but nothing anything like what I read it was gonna be.

With that said, I'm have 38+p loaded in it right now. I believe that my shot placement and the little quicker follow up shots are going to benefit me more than carrying 357 loads that I have.

On a side note, WOW, what a great little gun and I can't wait for my RKBA pocket holster to get here. The nemesis is a little big for my tastes.
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Old January 24, 2010, 07:06 PM   #1282
Headless
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Throw some doubletap .357 125gr in there. It gets pretty beastly. Not unmanageable, but if you're not prepared physically for the recoil, it can really hurt. That said, the first time I took out my little 642 and put 100rnd of +P .38 through it, my hand hurt for a week. Nowadays i'm used to the little bugger; 100rnd of +P is a normal range session and .357 from a snub doesn't seem as bad as it once did IMO, everyone who buys a super light .357 snub should buy just 1 box of 125gr .357 doubletap just so they know what real .357 is like. The federal .357 defense rounds i've fired are more comparable to doubletap's .38SPL +P. The doubletap .357 is in a totally different league.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...products_id=48

Yeah, 1425fps - from a snub. LOL. Federal shows 1250fps on their rounds, and that's from a 4 inch barrel. Doubletap from a 4 inch is 1600fps. It's seriously impressive from a snub.

I always chuckle at jim march's review:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...reviews_id=224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn
Now that most of the firearms I carry are Glocks and I am retired...All the weapons are full mag and empty chamber. I sometimes carry mexican style, I also carry in a holster...The trigger is always to the rear...I know that by touching the trigger or looking at it, the pistol is not at the ready...

Last edited by Headless; January 24, 2010 at 07:11 PM.
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Old January 24, 2010, 08:53 PM   #1283
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On a side note, WOW, what a great little gun and I can't wait for my RKBA pocket holster to get here.
After 2.5 years I still concur.

Welcome to the pack.
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis
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Old January 24, 2010, 09:31 PM   #1284
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Welcome to the pack.
DAdams,

Thank you and glad to be here.
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Old January 25, 2010, 04:22 AM   #1285
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Picked up a slightly used 340 CT this weekend and ran 100 .38's and 10 .357 thru it yesterday. Really handy to carry and I really like that big front sight. I was able to keep all 5 in the head of a standard IPSC metric target at 7 yards fairly easily.
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Old January 26, 2010, 08:21 PM   #1286
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Welcome:

Quote:
Picked up a slightly used 340 CT
Now that's a find!!
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis
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Old January 31, 2010, 05:53 PM   #1287
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"12 ounces of pure Titanium & Scandium Hellfire"

Well I've gone and done it. My check is in the mail for a 340PD Hiviz. I flirted around with others for awhile. Got a P11 which I like, but too blocky to pocket carry. Thought about settling for 38 spl. in a 442 or even a bodyguard. Thought the M&P 340 would be a nice compromise at 13.3 with the tritium site. I was kidding myself. I knew what I really wanted. Sure I've read the stories about new PD owners trading them in after one cylinder of 357s. Sure it's expensive. Sure there are issues with crimp jump. All I can say in response is 12 OUNCES!!! Not 15, not 13.3, but 12 OUNCES. After handling one at my local gun shop I was sold in two minutes. There was no stopping me. 12 OUNCES! A 12 ounce 357 magnum!!!

So the check is in the mail for "12 ounces of pure Titanium & Scandium Hellfire". Am I a little concerned with the prospect of shooting 357s from a 12oz. revolver? You betcha, but I intend to do everything I can to work my way up to doing just that.

So chuckle if you like, but wish me well. It may be a fiery relationship, but I'm hoping it's a long one.
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Old January 31, 2010, 11:25 PM   #1288
Headless
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My friend has that 340PD It's an awesome revolver. You owe it to yourself to shoot at least a few 125gr Doubletap +P .357's from that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn
Now that most of the firearms I carry are Glocks and I am retired...All the weapons are full mag and empty chamber. I sometimes carry mexican style, I also carry in a holster...The trigger is always to the rear...I know that by touching the trigger or looking at it, the pistol is not at the ready...
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Old February 1, 2010, 02:00 PM   #1289
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That would work for me IF it were available with the XS Sight set-up, but I just couldn't do the light pipe or blade after the XS
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis
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Old February 1, 2010, 02:19 PM   #1290
Four Knives
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Completely agree with DAdams.

For me the MP was the best option, but then again I never buy 'top of the line' anything...always last year's new model car or the B+ computer processor. Admittedly I'm just plain weird.

Welcome to the scandium club Schmoe and congratulations on your decision - you spent your hard earned cash on a really nice unit.

Set your expectations for heavier recoil than you expect, and when that dragon belches fire, but still less than what you steeled yourself for, you'll avoid cognitive dissonance.

Also, make sure you get some puffball .38s - you'll wanna shoot that new thing, and if you force yourself to go much more than 20 rounds of 357 it may be a bit overwhelming.

Shoot straight, stay safe!
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Old February 1, 2010, 03:43 PM   #1291
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Yes indeed Mr. JoeShmoe, welcome to the world of lightweight revolvers. You have many bretheren amongst us.

I hear those things "kick like a Vegas Showgirl".

Indeed I was on the same path as you when the M&P 340 came out. I really wasn't thrilled about the extra weight of the 340 because that was the main criteria that drove me from being satisfied with my 642. That said the difference in the target acquisition at night (no light/very low light) just doesn't exist period with a blade for sure or fiber in no light.

I also had concerns with the issues of the Titanium cylinder (versus stainless) and the grain restriction.
Quote:
CAUTION:
Do not use Magnum loadings with bullet weights of less than 120
grains - This will reduce the possibility of premature erosion in
titanium alloy cylinders
.

Don't forget to read your manual and follow the directions to test your ammo for "crimp jump".
Shoot four and check the 5th. Use a sharpie pen to mark and look for seperation. If you see it, try another brand or round or both.

That Atomic Energy Commission logo also was a style point reducer.

Four Knives that is classic and I shall add it to my repertoire.

Quote:
you'll avoid cognitive dissonance
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis

Last edited by DAdams; February 1, 2010 at 07:25 PM.
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Old February 3, 2010, 11:23 PM   #1292
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Old February 3, 2010, 11:30 PM   #1293
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Since Smith and Wesson's acquisition by Saf-T-Hammer, the company owners are voluntarily following the Clinton Agreement.

I don't see why anyone would buy a S&W with a lock, it's no different than buying a Smith and Clinton.

Why did we boycott them back then, and now we're not prepared to do it again?

Ruger has installed locks too. And Springfield, Taurus, etc.

Massad Ayoob's take:
Quote:
Personally, all the S&W revolvers I carry or use for anything serious are older models without the locks.
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Old February 4, 2010, 01:19 PM   #1294
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ILS

The fact that S&w is offering so many of their handguns w/o locks today is a positive sign. Let the market decide. Personally it's not the lock so much for me as much as the look of the lock on the side. I'm not uncomfortable with the supposed lock complexity that may interfere with operations although this seems to be a big relative beef.

Please though, not the lock again. It is a beaten deceased equine.
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis

Last edited by DAdams; February 4, 2010 at 01:25 PM.
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Old February 5, 2010, 04:03 PM   #1295
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Has anyone had a chance to try the Hornady Critical Defense 357 round? Is it really lower recoil, less muzzle flash? Also wondering about crimp jump.
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Old February 5, 2010, 09:31 PM   #1296
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Has anyone had a chance to try the Hornady Critical Defense 357 round?
When you get your new 340pd it would be wise to select 3-5 different PD rounds and shake your new revolver down. Document, take pictures of the targets, see what works best and report back.

Let us know if we are missing out on something.

I have been down the ammo road and settled in on what works for me. Your journey may be different but you will arrive at a comfortable place soon. Have fun on the trip.

When I go to the range now it is just a few cylinders of .38, a few of plus P a couple of .357 and after 50 rounds I am on to something else that needs some attention. That is all ball ammo since I already know what works in the realm of JHP for carry for me. SGDFSB plus P and .357, DPX 110, Buffalo Bore Standard Pressue 20C, Remington Golden Saber Plus P, Remington .357, and none have posed a crimp jump issue. I have some Hornady but it has been a few years now. With Plus P I don't have to worry and a few fps isn't going to make a hoot of difference IMO. As they say in the business, "your mileage may vary". You have the lighter than 13.3 hence you will have to find out what works for the real light weights in .357.

http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag...tical-Defense/
The specifications look favorable. I think I will have to get a couple boxes and try it out. Can never have too much .357 and if the 340 doesn't like it I can always feed it to the 686 three inch; it eats anything so it won't go to waste.

So when is the PD due in??
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis

Last edited by DAdams; February 5, 2010 at 09:50 PM.
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Old February 6, 2010, 10:02 AM   #1297
racuda
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Hello, DAdams. I feel like I know you after spending literally days reading these volumes.

I just ordered mine. You do get commission, right? Well, if you don't you should.
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Old February 6, 2010, 02:09 PM   #1298
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Originally Posted by DAdams View Post
When you get your new 340pd it would be wise to select 3-5 different PD rounds and shake your new revolver down. Document, take pictures of the targets, see what works best and report back.

Let us know if we are missing out on something.

I have been down the ammo road and settled in on what works for me. Your journey may be different but you will arrive at a comfortable place soon. Have fun on the trip.

When I go to the range now it is just a few cylinders of .38, a few of plus P a couple of .357 and after 50 rounds I am on to something else that needs some attention. That is all ball ammo since I already know what works in the realm of JHP for carry for me. SGDFSB plus P and .357, DPX 110, Buffalo Bore Standard Pressue 20C, Remington Golden Saber Plus P, Remington .357, and none have posed a crimp jump issue. I have some Hornady but it has been a few years now. With Plus P I don't have to worry and a few fps isn't going to make a hoot of difference IMO. As they say in the business, "your mileage may vary". You have the lighter than 13.3 hence you will have to find out what works for the real light weights in .357.

http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag...tical-Defense/
The specifications look favorable. I think I will have to get a couple boxes and try it out. Can never have too much .357 and if the 340 doesn't like it I can always feed it to the 686 three inch; it eats anything so it won't go to waste.

So when is the PD due in??
I have to wait for the check to clear at Bud's, shipping to my FFL, and then since I'm in NY, I have to send a form for the judge to sign for it to be added to my permit. Then I can pick it up. The last step usually only takes a few days.

Regarding ammo, I've been waiting four months, for my 9mm Hornady Critical Defense ammo from Cabelas. I was surprised when I saw they had it in 357 Magnum so I snapped up a couple boxes. I'll be looking for others to test as well. I also have brass, and bullets coming, and I'm going to experiment with various loads for range use. I'll be sure to report back here.
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Old February 6, 2010, 05:49 PM   #1299
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racuda

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Hello, DAdams. I feel like I know you after spending literally days reading these volumes.

I just ordered mine. You do get commission, right? Well, if you don't you should.
Welcome racuda....

Well, it's winter and there is nothing like curling up with a good thread.
If you spent anytime on the 642 thread.....well you may not want to get to know me that well.

No commission and no affiliation although S&W could at least send me a jacket or cap...or a Nightguard in .357 would be a worthy reward for my crass promotion. One thing about the 340 after almost three years I still recommend it highly. It gets more practical use than about anything else I have with the exception of a Seecamp LWS .380.


JoeShmoe

Quote:
since I'm in NY, I have to send a form for the judge to sign for it to be added to my permit. Then I can pick it up. The last step usually only takes a few days.
What a PIA.

And finally here is a Hornady blurb on the Personal Defense.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ed=0CEoQqwQwDA

What a PIA.
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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis

Last edited by DAdams; February 6, 2010 at 06:50 PM.
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Old February 6, 2010, 09:15 PM   #1300
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Brand new to the forum and joined specifically to learn more on "the 642 part one/duex" thread...then I discover the M&P 340 thread!

Great to be here and have A LOT to learn and significant decisions to make.

Appreciate all of the information so many have willingly shared.
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