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Old October 28, 2007, 07:18 PM   #176
DakotaBlues
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Just bought a M&P CT 340

My brother-in-law is a State Trooper here in Michigan. I've always loved his back-up rig, a S&W .357 Mag (640 I believe with rubber grip), affectionately called "The Pocket Rocket". Well, I thought I'd finally join the club and start putting my carry permit to use more consistantly. I've used CT grips on my SIG 226 and have no complaints. I was concerned about the grip that came on the M&P 340 that I found (these are the small grips).

To be honest, I found it miserable to shoot. 5 rounds was all I really wanted. Night and day difference as compared to my brother-in-laws (and I have to believe the grip has more to do with that than the weight). Would the more full CT grip work on this rig (i.e., the rubber CT one that is larger)? I hate to drop the extra money on another CT grip, but this one doesn't offer much help with felt recoil at all IMO and I've never heard my brother-in-law complain that his rubber grip snags that badly.

Alternatively, I thought about just running .38's through this thing to get better with this trigger, then .357's on occassion. Just seems they could have done more with the backstrap (realizing that the goal likely was concealability). Any suggestions on how to proceed? I've shot handguns a good bit and just find this grip unenjoyable.
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Old October 28, 2007, 08:17 PM   #177
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I had a 360 PD and I ended up putting on the longer CT grips. I think they are called the 305's. I liked them a LOT more than the 405's which are the shorter ones. You can get a full grip with the 305's, which helps a great deal with regards to controling the gun. I didn't feel that the 305's hampered the concealability at all. I front pocket carried the gun. I did cut the bottom off of an Unkle Mikes holster to allow it to sit a little lower in the pocket. Worked like a charm. Bottom line for me. I could conceal the 305's as well as the 405's, and I felt the grip was MUCH better. I will be purchasing a 360 M&P soon, and I will put the 305's on it.

Oh yeah, you can probably ebay your 405s that came on the gun and get most of your money out of them. Good Luck!
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Old October 28, 2007, 08:45 PM   #178
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Thanks Much

Appreciate your response; I suspected the larger CT grip would help a ton. Guess I'll be off to work a trade or buy and sell. Thanks again for the timely help; much appreciated!
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Old October 28, 2007, 09:24 PM   #179
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I have the 305 grips on a 640 (SS) and the 405 grips on a 340. The 640 is entirely shootable with about whatever load I've run in it, but I've used it mostly as a development gun for practice loads I've talked about in previous posts here.

The M&P340, OTOH, is a daily carry gun. There is no question but what the factory grips are a simple, cheap boot grip that you can hold--and that's about it. The CT 405 is an excellent replacement for that size grip, and its design significantly controls the recoil. The 305 is not quite as good on recoil control, but gains in finger usage, so to speak. IMO, there is a difference in concealability between the two grips--but maybe my jeans' pockets aren't as big as kurtiss' jeans pockets are.

Most lightweight carriers I know do limit their rounds to 38+P stuff, or the milder 357 loads. A current favorite round--and the one I keep in my 340--is the Speer 38+P Gold Dot 135-gr short barrel load. GDSB-135 bullet is optimized to work between about 850 and 1000 fps, and the 38+P load runs about 900 fps in my two j-frames mentioned above.

Speer also makes a 357 Mag 135-gr SB load that is suppposed to run about 1000 fps from a 2" barrel. That's another round to consider. However, given the test results I've read about the 38+P load, I feel entirely comfortable with that round in my carry gun.

I've also found that nothing beats practice in shooting these small guns well. I've used my practice shooting to acclimate to the lightweight by "working my way up"--I don't even bother with factory 357 Mag loads yet, and I may never carry them if I don't feel I can readily shoot-five-reload-and-shoot-another-five without considering the pain. So, I'd suggest you practice a lot with milder loads. If you want the comfort of 357 Magnum cartridges when you carry it, fine.

Jim H.
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Old October 29, 2007, 07:37 PM   #180
DakotaBlues
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Much appreciated

I appreciate your response. I contacted Crimson Trace directly today and they indicated they'd do the swap for me from the 405's to the 305's. I feel I'll still be able to more than reasonable conceal it and I'm hopeful it will take some of the sting out when using .357 rounds. While my brother-in-laws rig is all stainless (and I believe it weighs in around 23 oz. empty as compared to my new M&P which weighs in around 13 oz.) the larger, rubber grip he has on it makes it pretty easy to shoot in comparison to the 405 grip IMO. I can only hope the 305 CT grip will be similar.

Thanks again guys.
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Old October 29, 2007, 10:08 PM   #181
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CT305 vs 405

Dakota, let us know how you like the 305s.

I have two sets of 405s on two different J Frames. My hands are in the "medium" size range so they work fine for me and do a great job in providing some "stress release".
Some of the shorts and pants I wear do better with the shorter grip.
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Old October 29, 2007, 11:29 PM   #182
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Chrono test--M&P340, Factory Speer 357-GDSB135gr.

I found a box of the Speer 357 Short Barrel 135gr cartridges. They went over the chrono this afternoon in the 340:
Velocity: 1031.5
High: 1061.1
Low: 969.9
SD: 35.8
MAD: 24.6
ES: 91.2
FWIW: Here's (one of) the 340 results again for the Speer 38+P Short Barrel 135gr.
Velocity: 895.3
High: 916.0
Low: 849.8
SD: 26.3
MAD: 18.2
ES: 66.2
Both rounds shoot to about the same point of aim, and both are very accurate--I've shot groups as small as 3/8"w x 1/2" h (4/5, 1 CF) at 10-15 yards (from a benchrest, using the laser).

I found the 357 mag round entirely manageable--but I have now shot over 600 rounds through the 340, and over 3000 rounds through the 640. I still intend to carry the 38+P load, as that can be shot faster and more accurately by me at this point in time.

The weather was about the same for both tests--e.g., appr. 60F, sunny, mod. humidity.

Jim H.
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Old October 30, 2007, 07:07 AM   #183
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jfh

Thanks for the chrono report on the SGD .357 Plus P. I liked that round upon finally having the opportunity to light a few last week. They should do a 158 gr.

Refresh my memory, have you cooked up a "heavy" .357 equivalent of the SGD for SB? 158. How did it chrono?

Have you tested the standard BB 20C? If so could you put those together with aforementioned report. Have you done BB plus P?

Quote:
I still intend to carry the 38+P load, as that can be shot faster and more accurately by me at this point in time.
Which one is the one you intend to continue to carry your reloads or the commercially available SGD?

Great information. By the end of the month I will begin the buying process on the LnL. Recently ordered and received the ABCs of Reloading, and yesterday the Hornady Cook book arrived.

Do you have some opinions on reloading commonly made mistakes or must have, must do items?
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Old October 30, 2007, 10:52 AM   #184
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DAdams: Thanks for the thanks.

Your query reminded me that I do have the two Buffalo Arms rounds in the (.38 / .357) retail ammo box. We have another glorious day here, and I plan to run the chrono again, so I will include a cylinderfull, if my courage is great.

As you may recall, I started on my "38+P reloading project" as a means of both becoming profiicent at J-frame SD use. To do that, one simply has to shoot a lot. To shoot a lot with a lightweight J-frame, you have to become acclimated to the recoil, so I set up a reloading program that 1) allowed me to shoot a lot economically, and 2) provided the recoil acclimation needed by adjusting powder charges while using the chosen PD round bullet (or a close equivalent).

The reloading project has largely accomplished the initial goal: I can now rapid fire a cylinderful of the factory Speer 38+P 135 gr round, reload, and shoot another cylinder. My hand is much tougher, and I have the callouses on my trigger finger and thumb that allow much more practice.

In the course of the reloading project to accomplish that goal, I was able to shoot rounds that cost me about 11 cents (lead 140-gr) or 23 cents (the Speer 135 GDSB bullet) instead of $1.00 for the factory round. The net result is that I have now shot well over 3000 rounds out of the 640, and about 600 out of the 340.

In accordance with the prevalent internet wisdom on PD ammo, I intend to only carry the factory round. Having said that--it really is tempting to build a reload that provides the 38+P factory round ballistics in a .357 Magnum case. The obvious benefit is the easier-cleaning factor of the longer cartridge, not to mention the lower cost of the round. Further, should that prospect of interrogation after a shooting or the apocryphal cross examination, it would allow me to say "Yessir, those were handloads. I created a lower-power round than the factory round because I'm an old man with sore hands...."

However, the cylinder-binding showed up again on the 340, and I will now try to minimize it by shooting only the Speer bullet reloads to see if it is lead or the powder characteristics.

More later--

Jim H.
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Old October 30, 2007, 09:55 PM   #185
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Well, That Was Fun

All the rounds I have put down range so far; I would guess maybe 250 with a few recent .357 SGD for short barrels have been with the Hogue Monogrips.



Those are awesome full hand grips, and provide great control, but just a bit long for pocket carry in some of my slacks.

I put the original S&W CT 405s back on today. Like a different revolver. The little finger is lost though hanging around underneath. Nice to have the laser pointer back on the other hand.



Now I can start over with range work. And get good again.



My 642 has them on so I am not too rusty but it has been 3 months since the CTs and 642 have been to the range.
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Old October 31, 2007, 11:11 AM   #186
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cylinder binding and reloads update.

I was at the range again yesterday, and I shot about fifty reloads again. All the bullets were the Speer GDSB135JHPs. At the end, there was some resistance at the cylinder. Four hours later, cylinder rotation was noticably stiffer, but still usable once I freed it up by manually turning the cylinder. It appears that the gunk congealed a bit more on the rod during that time. Eighteen hours later, the resistance remained about the same. Had I shot about seventy-five to 100 rounds, the later-time resistance would have been really significant, possibly enough to bind up the cylinder.

I suspect there is a correlation between 'clean-burning' powders and the gumming-up--but I shot four different powders yesterday. None of the rounds are low-pressure loads, however--really medium-pressure loads in a .357 case. The slower powders might be the culprit.

I'll continue to chase this some more as time passes--but I suspect that the problem can be minimized by 1) shooting only FMJ bullets, 2) using faster powders, and 3) using a load that results in complete combustion.

It is readily solved by simply cleaning your M&P340 after every range session. And that is what I do anyway with a firearm I carry for PD.

DAdams, I forgot to take the Buffalo Bore ammo with me yesterday--I rushed out the door to get range time in before a pre-scheduled event there. But, tomorrow may be warm enough to shoot again--and I have the Buffalo Bore Ammo in the range bag.

Update on cylinder binding: At the range two days later, I shot another 30 rounds through the 340--again, reloads, with the Speer 135-gr. JHP bullet, no lead, but with three different powders. Total, about 100 rounds since cleaning. Six hours later, the cylinder was "significantly" bound, and manually turning it only partially resolved it.

I see no reason not to shoot Jacketed reloads (save for the reload-warranty issue), but I would definitely clean the 340 after EVERY range session.

Eventually, I may be able to correlate this to powder / load types, but that's not possible yet.
Jim H.

Last edited by jfh; November 3, 2007 at 11:58 AM. Reason: add new data
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Old November 1, 2007, 01:09 PM   #187
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Mr. Mika says my holster will be shipped 11-02-07. Can't wat!
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Old November 1, 2007, 05:15 PM   #188
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A Little Something

Brassman, here is a shot to carry you through until the real thing.

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Old November 1, 2007, 05:17 PM   #189
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Pic for the Season

Here is a M&P 340 shot in the spirit of the season.



Got a new Fenix LED L1T v2.0 with pulse tail cap.

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After a bad opening, there is hope for the middle game. After a bad middle game there is hope for the end game. But once you are in the endgame, the moment of truth has arrived - Edmar Mednis
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Old November 1, 2007, 07:53 PM   #190
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Buffalo Bore range results:

Item 20A--"Heavy 38 SPL+P:" 158-gr. LSWHC, factory spec'd at 1000 fps/M.E. 351 ft. lbs.

five shots, from an S&W 640 (2 & 1/8" barrel): Average, 1020.3 fps.
five shots, from an S&W 340 (1 & 7/8" barrel): Average, 1010.0 fps.

Item 20B--"Heavy 38 SPL+P:" 125-gr. L.V. Gold Dot, factory spec'd at 1050 fps/M.E. 306 ft.lb.

five shots from the 640: Average, 1061.1 fps

I've had trouble believe the 20A advertised specs--but they are true. Further, compared to the hand-loaded .38Spl+P loads I've been doing with various powders and a 140-gr. lead bullet, the recoil is NOT harder, and the shot has a noticable "38 Spl" feel to it. Anyone well acclimated to a 340 should have little trouble shooting it.

It is a bit stiffer recoil than the Speer 38+P 135-gr GDSB load, but it's also 'shorter'--and given the historical performance of the 38 Spl 158-gr. LSWC-HC round, it should be a super defensive load in 642s-442s.

As far as the 20B load goes, that's a real light load in comparison. I didn't bother to shoot it in the 340, I feel that confident about its managability.

What's that link to the gelatin tests someone has done?

Jim H.
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Old November 2, 2007, 01:15 PM   #191
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Hello fellas. New here. I just bought a 340 M&P and put a 305 grip on it. I will have pics soon
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Old November 3, 2007, 11:38 AM   #192
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DAdams, nice pics of your 340. The pic with the Fenix came out particularly well.

jfh, thanks for the chrono work. The Buffalo Bore stuff looks fantastic.
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Old November 3, 2007, 04:19 PM   #193
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Quote:
Item 20A--"Heavy 38 SPL+P:" 158-gr. LSWHC, factory spec'd at 1000 fps/M.E. 351 ft. lbs.


five shots, from an S&W 340 (1 & 7/8" barrel): Average, 1010.0 fps.

Item 20B--"Heavy 38 SPL+P:" 125-gr. L.V. Gold Dot, factory spec'd at 1050 fps/M.E. 306 ft.lb.


I've had trouble believe the 20A advertised specs--but they are true. Further, compared to the hand-loaded .38Spl+P loads I've been doing with various powders and a 140-gr. lead bullet, the recoil is NOT harder, and the shot has a noticable "38 Spl" feel to it. Anyone well acclimated to a 340 should have little trouble shooting it.

It is a bit stiffer recoil than the Speer 38+P 135-gr GDSB load, but it's also 'shorter'--and given the historical performance of the 38 Spl 158-gr. LSWC-HC round, it should be a super defensive load in 642s-442s.
Great information. 1010 avg fps with 158 gr @ 351. That is darn impressive.
Think I will pick up a couple boxes. I have some standard but no +P in the BB. I could run that in the 642, 340 and 686. Pretty versatile and potent round.

Thanks.
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Old November 7, 2007, 07:08 AM   #194
Eyefly
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Here are the pics I promised of the 305 grip on the 340. I had several people email me and PM me so I figured I had to do this sooner than later. One of these is for Kurt. There you go buddy... You will know which one it is.
Just click on the link...

I tried 50 rounds of 38 at the local range last Saturday. Very straight forward and easy to control. The 357 was a good bit more powerful. After five shots, it started feeling uncomfortable, so I stopped. I can easily carry this load for concealed carry but I will be going to the range with 38s.

On another note. This grip is about one thousand times more comfortable than the stock Hogue. And it it ever so slightly more difficult to conceal in your pocket. However it makes very little difference and I can still carry it in any of my pockets.

Regards...
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Last edited by Eyefly; November 7, 2007 at 09:09 AM.
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Old November 7, 2007, 07:53 AM   #195
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Thumbs up eyefly

Welcome to the M&P 340 Thread (formerly Club).

Nice looking 340 and good pics. If you wouldn't mind, post the pictures in the thread with the CT grip and shot with it in your hand. It would be helpful to folks who may be evaluating the relative merits of the 405 vs the 305 grip. I have a "medium" mitt and the 405s are probably optimal for me, size and pocket carry requirements. I'm sure the 305s offer more control with the full grip. Doesn't sound like they are compromising the carry exposure issues.

I may have to get a set of 305s one day. I have two sets of the 405s, one set on a 642 and the other on the 340. I just had to have one set of those with the S&W Logo.

Which .357 round did you try? If you didn't try the Speer Gold Dot .357 135 gr for short barrel you may want to give them a run. I didn't find them any more abusive (relative) than the SGD Plus P when trying them out back to back.
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Old November 7, 2007, 08:39 AM   #196
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I tried the Speer .357 gold dot. Same as you have in your photo. By the way, I consider myself to have an average medium hand although I wear "Large" gloves. Ring size 13...

Here are a few more...

Regards.
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Last edited by Eyefly; November 7, 2007 at 09:27 AM.
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Old November 7, 2007, 12:06 PM   #197
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Ambi. I see. Thanks for the photos.
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Old November 7, 2007, 12:52 PM   #198
Eyefly
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Not ambi. Just difficult to take a photo with my left hand.
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Old November 7, 2007, 04:01 PM   #199
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Hey DA. The kingdom has been missing a couple loyal subjects. What d' ya say we pay the court a visit? It ain't their fault the house got demolished. We lived there a long time before we came here anyway. What d' ya say?...What d' ya say?

I hope the Mika is waiting on my carport when I get home today.
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Old November 7, 2007, 04:27 PM   #200
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I agree with B'man, DA: we miss you over there.

Besides, the house isn't demolished.
We just moved into a spiffy new space.
I think it's going to work out just fine.

But we're missing our MSAA (and an important humorist).

Come on by, dude.

Nem A. Tocyst
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