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Old Yesterday, 07:59 AM   #1
Join Date: May 31, 2008
Posts: 2,577
So NY Times, Which One Is It?

I'm reading an article in the Times this morning about a man who killed three shop owners in Brooklyn over time with a sawed off shotgun. They describe the injuries, which because of the scope of the areas hit, sound consistent with injuries inflicted by a shotgun.

Then, later in the article, they mention the crimes were tied together because of the .22 shell casings found at the scenes. Huh?

Was this a .22 shotgun? Still later they mention the killer had a .sawed off .22 rifle. OK, now we've got somewhat of a straight story. The injuries were caused by multiple gunshot wounds. I guess in the mind of the reporter, sawed off automatically equals shotgun.

Unfortunately, typical of politicians and media pundits who really don't have a clue as to what they're passing bills on or reporting.

Here's the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/ny...tionfront&_r=0

Last edited by Speedo66; Yesterday at 08:05 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:13 AM   #2
Join Date: April 27, 2010
Location: in my own little world
Posts: 1,071
Seems like that was just a goofy mistake on the part of whoever wrote it. I wouldn't expect different.

The .22 rifle wasn't even technically a 'sawed-off' anything. it was a Ruger 10/22 that had the stock cut off at the grip. The barrel is untouched.
You can see it in this New York Daily News article:
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM   #3
Join Date: February 8, 2006
Location: V35 Family Compound, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 527
The news media is a poor source of facts and information in general. I recently read an update to the Akai Gurley shooting that described the NYPD weapon used as a .22 caliber Glock. I am far from a Glock expert and even less so about NYPD's issued guns, but I seriously doubt they carry .22 caliber handguns.

Whatever genuine professional experience and knowledge you may have, reading a newspaper story about matters in which I'm knowledgeable tends to make me cringe with all the inaccuracies it contains. It makes me wonder what, if any, facts the mass market news media actually get right.

As for the NYT, any publication that continues to promote the perennially discredited Paul Krugman is not credible.
Clinging to my guns and religion, in good times and bad.
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Old Yesterday, 12:20 PM   #4
Carl N. Brown
Join Date: May 10, 2005
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 7,238
The story is confused about whether it was a sawed-off shotgun or sawed-off rifle. A crime report shout be written by someone who knows what they are writing about. Especially since the NYT has positioned itself as a front page gun control crusader.

I would not fault them over using "sawed-off". "Sawed-off" is not an NFA term. Any concealable weapon made from a rifle or shotgun by sawing off the buttstock is popularly called a "sawed-off" even if the barrel is not touched. "Sawed-off" is like "swamp gun" or "snake gun", it is colloquial. A sawed off may even be longer than the NFA definitions of SBS (minimum 18" barrel, minimum 26" overall) or SBR (minimum 16" barrel, Minimum 26" overall). Most NFA SBS and SBR barrels are made that way by the factory and are not sawed-off.

But .22 caliber shotgun? That is bad reporting.

ADDED: I do agree with v35 that .22 Glock is sloppy reporting. There is a Glock 22 model in .40 S&W caliber, which may be a NYPD approved either issue or officer's personal weapon.
Cogito me cogitare; ergo, cogito me esse.

Last edited by Carl N. Brown; Yesterday at 12:45 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM   #5
Join Date: October 15, 2010
Posts: 1,486
In my experience, nothing -repeat nothing, was ever accurately reported in incidents I was involved with as a cop on the street years ago…. I don't mean they didn't get the names right -they didn't get anything right…

In their defense, the press has very little to go on in crime reporting. If they wait until the official report is made available to them, then it will literally be yesterday's news… The various principles will rarely if ever speak about it (and if they do what happens next will forever discourage them from ever speaking out again….). At the scene there's always folks willing to speak up (with beer can in that little paper bag in their hands….) but mostly none of the bystanders will have heard or seen much of anything at all. Or you get the other end of the spectrum, someone with a vested interest in making sure the press only gets the story they want to see in the papers…. truth? that's just a dream.

Before I got into law enforcement work I never had a clue about such things and I wasn't worth much at all until my eyes were opened (and I needed a bandaid or two…). The general public actually believes what they see in the papers… and that's just too bad...
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Old Yesterday, 04:16 PM   #6
Join Date: March 27, 2008
Location: Central Indiana.
Posts: 2,462
Let's face it, these people are journalists. Presumably they majored in journalism. Which means they probably know a lot more about English literature than anything else. We see these kinds of mistakes in many disciplines, not just guns. Computers. The Law. Science. Medicine.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.
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Old Yesterday, 05:22 PM   #7
Bruce Hanson
Join Date: March 31, 2014
Posts: 27
As someone who majored in journalism I can tell you that I wasn't required to take any English literature classes other than what all students are required to take. I was required to take a variety of low level courses in economics, history, etc. Journalism students have a wide base of general knowledge. I never worked in the field because what I saw journalists doing didn't match up with what I learned journalists should do.
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Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM   #8
Join Date: July 8, 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 242
Don't believe anything you read in a newspaper. The articles
are many times wrong, sometimes purposely changed from
what the truth really is. If it's political it will be the politics
of the newspaper. These days mostly liberal. The truth is almost
not allowed on many newspapers. For reasons known only to them.

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Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM   #9
Join Date: September 23, 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,342
It is not fair to expect journalists to be experts in all fields, or for that matter any field except journalism. They should have non-journalist experts available to read and edit their stories prior to publication. Experts in law, law enforcement, weapons, etc.

The problem nowadays is that the news cycle is very short and because nobody buys print news anymore the funds to pay a bunch of experts just aren't there. Somebody needs to figure out how to better monetize journalism. Once that happens we might see better quality.
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Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM   #10
Join Date: February 24, 2005
Location: Southeastern Pa.
Posts: 2,155
It's a wonder that the press didn't call it an "assault weapon"!
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Old Yesterday, 06:13 PM   #11
Black Knight
Join Date: June 19, 2006
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,388
With as little about guns as the "news reporters" know today you could show or for that matter hit them in the head with a single barrel hinge action shotgun and they would not know the difference between it and an AK47. The quality of news reporting these days puts me in mind of pre-kindergarten kids.
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Old Yesterday, 06:20 PM   #12
Join Date: August 29, 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,166
Given how inaccurate the MSM is about things I know about like guns and gun control it makes me wonder of the accuracy of stories about thinks I don't know anything about.

I just don't trust the MSM!
I don't live in fear, I live in Alabama!
The great purpose of Law is to preserve and protect the innocent.
Mencken's Law “For every complex problem there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.”
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