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Old May 20, 2015, 02:54 PM   #1
stubbicatt
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Simplicity and Old School designs.

I know I am on the cusp of decripitude and daily doses of Geritol. This I know.

Here recently, I have seen so many new firearms made of plastic, aluminum, etc., and I'm not impressed.

As I am at an age where I am about to mount my curmudgeonly throne and start grumbling in my beard about whippersnappers etc., I realized that Colt and Smith and Wesson made the only revolvers worth a hoot, Colt made a 1911, which was the pinacle of auto pistol design. Winchester made many fine rifles, the Model 54 and Model 70 coming to mind, never mind the 19th century icons of 1873, 1892, 1894, etc...

I just can't get excited about flimsy plastic stocks on parkerized bolt actioned rifles, don't even get me talking about AR15... Mattel! -meh! Every time I hear the word "platform" when referring to firearms I feel my face turning as red as a Marine Drill Instructor berating a recruit for calling a magazine a "clip."

Perhaps it is a case of arrested development.

Anybody else lose interest in firearms developed after, say, 1952?

--The future is for the young for a good reason. The significance of these newer designs is simply lost to me.
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Old May 20, 2015, 03:06 PM   #2
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My friend, if you've ever tried a ruger revolver (not the craptastic plastic ones) but any of the six series, gp, or sp guns... there's no reason why these shouldn't be on your list of revolvers worth a hoot.
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Old May 20, 2015, 03:29 PM   #3
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stubbicatt

Still plenty of old classic revolvers, both single and double action, along with some of those modernistic self-loading pistols like the Colt 1911, for your shooting pleasure. All it takes is some careful perusing on your newfangled computer and lots of money and you too can enjoy firearms from those bygone day when blued steel and walnut stocks ruled the roost.
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Old May 20, 2015, 05:57 PM   #4
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No offense intended, but you sound like the old timer that was convinced Semi-Autos were never going to be a viable 'business tool' because of reliability.

I love the old stuff myself. Especially designs that came out before or around 1900. The joining of blued steel and wood of the guns 'that came before' is truly amazing. They look better than the new guns and are fun to shoot. In many cases, they are better than some new designs.

To say that everything since 1952 is uninteresting is to turn a blind eye to a few of the worlds greatest examples of engineering.

The Sig P210 (and 220) come to mind. I am no fan of the Glock but I see its beauty in engineering... even it if is only on the inside.

There is true beauty and value to some modern designs, you just have to find the one that works for you.

You like steel guns, I settle for all metal guns. Keep in mind that many a novice 'whippersnapper' has beat the pants off accomplished 'old timers' using that fancy pants technology.

Never stop learning.
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Old May 20, 2015, 06:17 PM   #5
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At 30 years old I now own more guns older than I am than those which arent. Something just feels right about a deep blue on a well machined piece of steel when it's mated to a finely checkered piece of wood. I don't go for the plastic fantastic very much, and when I do its out of necessity. My wife on the other hand has 3 guns, a marlin 22 rifle stainless synthetic, a pardner pump youth 20 ga, parked and synthetic, and last but not least a glock 42. I also have several guns made by marlin, remington, thompson center, ruger, taurus, and beretta that work like a dream. Sounds like you enjoy the older designs, but all of these companies have put out great products over the years. As for products being worth a hoot or not, don't let price get in the way for making that determination. A Volcanic may be worth as much as a mansion, but it doesn't mean that it was a good gun, just really interesting to collectors. Likewise the number of screws on a side plate doesn't determine whether a revolver is any count or not. My taurus pt99 putz my beretta "worth" twice as much completely to shame, just like the taurus m44 I have put the smith 27 I had at the same time to shame so bad I sold it.
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Old May 20, 2015, 06:27 PM   #6
Sol
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Preach it!

Plastic..err "advanced polymers" haven't been around long enough to prove longevity.

AAAANND....most modern pistols use the same JMB concepts to work.
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Old May 20, 2015, 06:37 PM   #7
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I'm with you, brother. I will say Ruger revolvers mentioned above are definitely worth owning, and I have a 1980 vintage Dan Wesson .357 that is top notch. I don't go shopping for platforms either. For that kind of $, it better be accurate and run like a Swiss watch right out of the box.
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Old May 20, 2015, 06:45 PM   #8
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Im 43 and must agree with you,about rifles anyway.Pistols not so much.Im no glock fanboy,but I do like some of the new "plastic" handguns out there.
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Old May 20, 2015, 06:50 PM   #9
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Everything in the firearms world is a compromise. I love the older guns in my collection. My absolute favorite is an Argentine Colt manufactured in 1952. I have an old Stevens 16 gauge in horrendous condition that still works well that I still can't bring myself to part with. Those older guns are heavy, which soak up recoil and make them more pleasurable to shoot. Oiled walnut and deep blue steel are beautiful things to look at. On the other hand walnut and steel requires maintenance. Heavy guns become tiresome to carry. So, in the end it all depends on how you use and enjoy your firearms. Glock is not my cup of tea, but I'd never berate someone for preferring them over a well built 1911. I'd much rather own an M1 Garand than an M4, but my everyday carry is a Taurus TCP so, go figure. I enjoy them all, a tool for every task. Just because something is old and oudated, or new and highly functional, makes very little difference to the emotional response. Case in point, I have some of my grandfather's wood handled screwdrivers, they're beautiful, but not as useful as my set of Craftsman tools. However, if pressed I'd certainly part with my Craftsman tools before my grandfather's, unless it was SHTF situation, in which case I'm taking whatever I know works the best. Given my druthers, I'll take an old, well cared for, wood stocked rifle with iron sights over a 6 position, recoil reducing, polymer stocked Ar15 with red dot, night vision optics and laser. Of course, I wouldn't turn down the AR if your just handing them out......
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Old May 20, 2015, 07:42 PM   #10
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I gotta admit that the Ruger revolvers are solid, great guns. Having said that, give me a good smith & Wesson j, k, l or n frame any day. Colts are pretty good also.

But I been shooting smith since about 1948 and just won't quit
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Old May 20, 2015, 07:45 PM   #11
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I'm just about to get my senior discount coffee at McDonald's, so I'm old enough to be "the old man" to my coworkers. And I lean toward your sentiment - my favorite firearms are steel & wood. And I do like the metal (when it's not all steel) handguns with a fondness that I don't have for my polymer handguns.

With that said, when the gun is a tool to use, I'm using those polymer pistols and the AR-15, and a shotgun (steel w polymer stock). Part of the reason is lighter weight, part is reliability, part is that I don't mind "using those up" as working guns. I have guns to use, & guns to enjoy. The metal& wood ones are mostly in the later category.
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Old May 20, 2015, 08:02 PM   #12
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I love guns I've got model 12&37 Winchesters, A5 Brownings, several old Colts (my favorites), just to name a few but they share room in the safe with M4s and Glocks. I love walnut and blued steel the most but I like the new stuff too.
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Old May 20, 2015, 08:04 PM   #13
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I'm well into my curmudgeon phase and can sympathize. But for post-1952 I would definitely include the Ruger Mark I and II, Single-Six and Blackhawk families. Also, the T/C Contender and the CZ 75b.

The plastic stuff shines for concealed carry. I've found the S&W M&P pistols to be light, accurate at SD distances, reliable and controllable. But I don't think of them as something for the ages, just utilitarian.

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Old May 20, 2015, 08:58 PM   #14
Jim K
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"... I don't think of [the plastic stuff] as something for the ages, just utilitarian."

The folks who bought those wheellocks, and Patersons, and SAA's, and 1911's, and Police Positives, and S&W No 1's and whatever, felt exactly the same way. Not many people have gone into a gun shop and asked for a museum piece.

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Old May 20, 2015, 11:41 PM   #15
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For me, handguns stopped developing around 1905 with the S&W "N" frame, maybe 1917 if you need to be specific with cartridges. rifles, well after 1896, not much interesting happened. Winchester had purchased the rights to the perfect lever action rifle, the 1895 and Mauser had developed the Swedish Mauser. Everything after that was anti-climatic. Cartridges were developed but nothing really happened in the development of rifles or handguns. Maybe 1935, the Hi-Power but as good as it is, it will never replace a good "N" frame.

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Old Yesterday, 01:07 AM   #16
Twiki357
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Quote:
Anybody else lose interest in firearms developed after, say, 1952?
My cutoff date isn’t that far back. Actually I don’t have a general date. I just go by; If it has an internal lock, transfer bar, or factory rubber grips, I just keep on walking.
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Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM   #17
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I love the "Old School" stuff too, Wood & Steel! BUT..... my favorite deer rifle has an ugly black plastic stock - SO much easier to carry in the field, and no worries about dinging it up.
I do much prefer blued steel handguns with wood grips. But my favorite twentytwo pistol is the old fifties classic Whitney Wolverine with it's light Alcoa aluminum frame and superbly comfy plastic grip panels.
My Colt M1991A1 has some plastic parts, but I changed to custom wood grip panels. Feels wonderfully Old School!
Never will a Glock enter my gunlocker, or anything comparable.
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Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM   #18
ku4hx
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Interesting thing happened to me last week when I was shooting my new-to-me FEG Hi-Power.

Now this gun is ragged looking. The grips look like they've had the checkering sanded off and then soaked in used motor oil. They look bad and the fit is awful.

The blueing is pretty much gone, but there is no pitting and only a little light rust that easily came off; the bore is near perfect. I'd guess the trigger is on the order of 15 pounds and as gritty as you might imagine. Still, once used to it, at nine yards all shots went into about 2 - 2 1/2". Perfect functioning with 85 rounds of 124 grain plated flat points

The interesting part is the people who came over to see the Hi-Power I was shooting. First one, then another. Of all the guns being shot that day, this beat up Israeli police FEG trade-in got several people's attention. I was astonished that people at the other end of the range noticed the gun.
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 AM   #19
Sam1911
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Old guns are really neat!

New guns are really neat!

I'd hate to have to do the sorts of things I do with guns, using nothing but antiquated technology. Stunted and cut off without the clear benefits of the last 50-60 years of progress.

I'd hate to have to be stuck only appreciating and understanding new firearms, with no comprehension of the "how" and "why" of firearms development and history, and the pleasant, familiar, nostalgic appreciation of the beauty and craft of earlier makes.

And I'd truly hate to be saddled with a blinkered, stilted, and rose-bespectacled view of either one.
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Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM   #20
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I do not mind new gun designs and materials at all. I have one plastic gun and the 24/7 Taurus Compact Pro DS in .45 acp has shot everything I tried in it. Not as accurate as my 1911, but certainly good enough for the roll it fills. (and not one FTF, FTE,FTF or any failure so far.

I doubt anyone is going to be dragging it out of the safe 50 years from now to show off its artistic qualities and beauty however. Collecting them and their variations also seems unlikely to me.

Thanks Very much for the used gun market !!
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Old Yesterday, 10:46 AM   #21
lysanderxiii
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Things have been going steadily down hill, yes, I can see that...

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Old Yesterday, 10:46 AM   #22
joem1945
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I'm on the other side of 70 but blue steel and fine wood are more to my tastes. I lean toward military types but a newer S&W or engraved Colt or S&W suits my fancy to.
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Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM   #23
Sav .250
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Platform! Platform!...... Just mess-n with ya.


The days of old are gone..........

Good thing mine are mostly are old.

The modern weapon (rifles) seem to have more of a star wars look.
Or the ever present ......tactical look.

Looks like there are 2 groups of owners. The old school and the give them what they want group. J s/n.
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Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM   #24
lysanderxiii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sav .250 View Post
...The modern weapon (rifles) seem to have more of a star wars look...
You mean they look like Sterling L2A3s, MG34s and Lewis guns?

(and maybe a Mauser 96, for the pistol folks)
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Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM   #25
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I prefer classic guns in general, from percussion revolvers, single actions and Winchesters to DA Smiths and good sporter bolt actions, though I also appreciate the practicality and usefulness of more modern things.

With a back and shoulder injury, I can truly appreciate the lightweight plastic pistols, and relatively lightweight, extremely accurate smaller bore rifles for shooting out to goofy distances plinking.

Quote:
Plastic..err "advanced polymers" haven't been around long enough to prove longevity.
At what point do you think that will have been established? That seemed like a valid concern 30 years ago, but plastic guns seem to work pretty well in extended heavy use. Some better than others, depending sometimes on caliber and gun size, though thats also a legitimate point in steel and wood guns also.

This was interesting, and doesnt seem unusual for people that shoot a lot. The issue that caused the test to stop had nothing to do with the frame material. Others report longer use and higher round counts. More than most of us will ever put through our guns, and I think safely out of the "plastic is a fad and wont last" catagory.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/6885

At this point, I find myself liking/appreciating things I disliked out of hand in the past, and for no real reason other than they were new and ugly. I dont draw many lines other than I may simply like or dislike things based on if I have a use for them, they work well, or have good reports of reliability. I dont simply dislike things because they are new or different, or arent made of wood and steel.
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