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Old August 12, 2014, 02:49 PM   #1
scaatylobo
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7.62 X 54 ammo = corrosive ?

I shoot 2 Mosin's and most of the ammo I am shooting is the tinned stuff from Russia.

I don't trust it to be really non corrosive,but I wonder if anyone has the real skinny as to if / how much corrosive material are in the ammo ?.

I clean it up fast after shooting [ its dirty ] and use Ballistol and then leave a coating or Frog Lube after the Ballistol.

I have also used Winchester Gun wash first to get the primary dirt out.

But I still would love to know if I am overdoing it,or if I am barely being careful ?.
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Old August 12, 2014, 02:54 PM   #2
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I treat it all as corrosive. I asked a similar questions a while back and someone here was nice enough to email me how to tell which is corrosive and which isn't. I look for the email and PM you if I find it.
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Old August 12, 2014, 03:01 PM   #3
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Thank you

I would be happy to read AND heed the article if you find it.
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Old August 12, 2014, 03:24 PM   #4
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You're welcome!

So this is the link that was sent to me. I figured I should post it on the open forum rather than PM you, that way everyone can get some use out of it. I have only used it a few times but it seemed accurate when I did.

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

this one as well.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm

Have fun shooting those Mosins!
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Old August 12, 2014, 03:30 PM   #5
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You only need plain hot tap water. Your Ballistol isn't required. It'll do though. The CF gave us nothing but regular motor oil for years to clean everything that went bang.
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Old August 12, 2014, 03:41 PM   #6
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All surplus ammo in this caliber should be considered corrosive. You only need to make a mistake once to ruin the gun.

The danger from corrosive ammo comes from the primers, which leave a form of salt in the barrel. Any water based cleaner (including plain water, or water mixed with soap, or my favorite, water mixed with Ballistol) will dissolve the salt and carry it away. The trick is to use plenty of water, and to get all the carbon gunk out so that salty water does not have any place to hide.

After that, you can finish however you like, being sure to leave a nice coat of oil inside just in case any spots were missed. Some folks like to run another oil patch down after 24 hours, it usually comes out pretty dirty even if the bore seemed clean the day before.

Don't neglect the bolt face and any other metal parts that have carbon on them. Where ever there is carbon, there is salt.

I usually bring along a little squeeze bottle I'll fill with water/Ballistol mix, and a rod with a cleaning brush on it. Before I come home I'll squirt some of the mix right down the bore, run the brush back and forth a couple of times, and squirt it again. That gets out most of the gunk and leaves the bulk of the mess outside. I'll finish cleaning once I'm back inside but most of the messy part is done.
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Old August 12, 2014, 06:29 PM   #7
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Agree with Ranger and Mike. I treat all Eastern Bloc as corrosive and use windex (or a clone) to clean up at the range. No problems so far.
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Old August 12, 2014, 09:34 PM   #8
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Windex

I have heard that its the ammonia in Windex that breaks down the salt / corrosive stuff.

I have had no problems with straight Ballistol so far,and YES the next day there is more 'bleed off' from the lands & grooves .

Thanks for that read up on ammo !!!
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Old August 12, 2014, 09:39 PM   #9
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21 / 72

SO = the stamping is 21 / 72 and according to what I see,this is where its from.
Wish it gave more information on the rounds and their content.

Zaklady Metalowe MESKO, Skarzysko-Kamienna, Poland. Normally found on cartridge headstamps with a date stamped upside down in relation to the factory code.

Any guesses ?.
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Old August 12, 2014, 09:42 PM   #10
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If it came in a tin or just a plain brown bag its probably corrosive.


If its a brand name even if its steel or other non brass cased you're fine.

I'd clean it soon after ever shooting but keep in mind these guns are freakin tanks so probably over doing it but why risk messing one up?
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Old August 13, 2014, 06:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
I have heard that its the ammonia in Windex that breaks down the salt / corrosive stuff.
You've heard wrong. Simple hot water will break down the salts effectively. Some modern formulations of Windex actually contain no ammonia. Unless the pretty blue color is a requirement for ya, stick to water, as its MUCH cheaper!
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Old August 13, 2014, 06:27 AM   #12
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People fret way more over this than they should. Just clean the gun after you shoot it with whatever you like and roll on. I have a Mosin, I bought 25 years ago and just cleaned it with gun solvent and oiled. The bore never rusted....Those rifles saw plenty of corrosive ammo before any of us got our hands on them.
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Old August 13, 2014, 07:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Simple hot water will break down the salts effectively.
Actually, the salt is not "broken down".

Potassium Chloride (what remains of the Potassium Chlorate used in "corrosive" primer compositions as an oxidizer) is very hygroscopic and, therefore, is readily pulled into solution by water for easy removal.

The Potassium Chloride is deposited in tiny amounts on everything touched by the propellant gases.

Potassium Chloride, by itself, will not harm steel ... but it will draw moisture from the air and start a RustFest.

If you live in a very dry environment, like a desert, you do not have to worry about rushing to clean your firearm after shooting chlorate-primered ammo ... until it rains.
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Old August 13, 2014, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColtPythonElite View Post
People fret way more over this than they should. Just clean the gun after you shoot it with whatever you like and roll on. I have a Mosin, I bought 25 years ago and just cleaned it with gun solvent and oiled. The bore never rusted....Those rifles saw plenty of corrosive ammo before any of us got our hands on them.
This.

I hose mine out with Windex (because it's already in the car) after shooting and put it back in the safe when I'm done. Wonder how Ivan got the corrosive crap out of his rifle in the battlefield.
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Old August 13, 2014, 12:02 PM   #15
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From my own experience I haven't seen any need to rush home and clean my rifles. I do clean them and in the more typical manor. I haven't experienced any problems from allowing them to sit around a day or 2. Mosin Nagants have lasted this long with that ammo, a few days isn't going to hurt.
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Old August 13, 2014, 12:24 PM   #16
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Terrific thread. Thanks, everyone. Great info, too, for those like me who've used eastern bloc milsurp X 39 in anything, such as a CZ bolt.

A hearty thumbs up, here!

:-)
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Old August 13, 2014, 12:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaatylobo View Post
I shoot 2 Mosin's and most of the ammo I am shooting is the tinned stuff from Russia.

I don't trust it to be really non corrosive,but I wonder if anyone has the real skinny as to if / how much corrosive material are in the ammo ?.

I clean it up fast after shooting [ its dirty ] and use Ballistol and then leave a coating or Frog Lube after the Ballistol.

I have also used Winchester Gun wash first to get the primary dirt out.

But I still would love to know if I am overdoing it,or if I am barely being careful ?.
A buddy of mine ruined his Mosin bore by not cleaning out surplus 7.62x54R .. a few days was all it took for it to be coated with rust.

Last time I shot my PKM, I ran hot water & soap through the barrel (using a bore mop) several times, then oiled heavily.

The *rest* of the gun I left disassembled for 1.5 months in the open air, and checked it daily. No rust spots formed. I eventually cleaned it, oiled it, reassembled, and tucked it back in the safe.

That was either Bulgarian or Russian light ball (I've got both).
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Old August 13, 2014, 12:44 PM   #18
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The "Box-O-Truth had this to say...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/educatio...orrosive-ammo/
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Old August 13, 2014, 01:20 PM   #19
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I got a rusted up Mosin that someone shot and didn't clean . It sat for about 10 years in a closet. I cleaned it several times over a few days until the patches weren't solid brown when they came out. That rifle is still easily paper plates accurate at 100 yards.
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Old August 13, 2014, 03:57 PM   #20
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Any Military Surplus ammo you get for the Mosin in a sealed tin will be corrosive.
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Old August 13, 2014, 03:59 PM   #21
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I've got an original issue 91/30 with PU Scope on it and given it's history and the fact it's one of my all time favorite guns I'm somewhat meticulous with cleaning it after a day of shooting corrosive.

Step one: Return from range, spray the bore and bolt face with Windex

Step Two: Clean bore as normal with Hoppes #9

Step three: break down bolt and clean

Step Three: ammendment A: If groups are opening up clean barrel with Outers foaming bore solvent (It has a copper fouling component to it)

Step 4: Return to safe.

That's it. Nothing major other then that and in the 5 years plus I've had it, no issues with rust. Hot water, Windex if the ammonia makes you feel better.

Clean it however you like and however will give you peace of mind. As long as it's being cleaned and no rust forming is all that should really matter in the long run in my opinion
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Old August 13, 2014, 04:36 PM   #22
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I am VERY glad

I am very glad I opened this can of worms that had been addressed prior.

And yes,my ammo "came in a can" [ sorry,I had to ].

And as pointed out all too well,how DID the average soldier in the middle of combat --- clean his rifle so as to not be taken out of the fight with a weapon that did not function.

Again,these rifles are actually older than I [ a pretty good feat ] and that also raises the question of why they are still functioning.

They were houses in very poor conditions and NOT cared for,yet they still do what they were designed for ---- and very well I might say.

I did an experiment with a carbine Mosin,fired it and wiped the barrel with Ballistol --- left it in my basement for a year.

There was no rust or any problems with that rifle and it still shoots as well as I can make her.
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Old August 13, 2014, 05:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
I did an experiment with a carbine Mosin,fired it and wiped the barrel with Ballistol --- left it in my basement for a year.
The Ballistol instructions tell us to mix it with 9 parts water to 1 part Ballistol for cleaning corrosive ammo residue. The reason for all of that water is to pull the Potassium Chloride into solution so that it can be easily removed.
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Old August 13, 2014, 05:31 PM   #24
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If its surplus x54r, its corrosive. If its new production like Wolf, PRVI, Barnaul, etc, it isnt.
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Old August 13, 2014, 06:21 PM   #25
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For the truly curious here is something we would do years ago. Pull a few bullets on some corrosive ammunition. Now less bullet and powder chamber a round. Lay a steel plate on the deck, nothing fancy, even 1/8" steel will do or really any chunk of clean steel. Now hold the muzzle about an inch off the plate and discharge the empty round. Only the primer goes bang, about like a firecracker. Allow the plate with the black spatter marks to be exposed to some humidity, hell take it into the bathroom while you shower.

Now just set it aside and exercise patience. Several days, a week, maybe even a month. Behold your once clean steel plate. Now think, like the old commercial with the burning egg in a hot skillet. This is your brain (the cute egg is shown) the camera pans to the burning egg, this is your brain on drugs. The steel plate is your rifle uncleaned on corrosive ammunition.

Also fun to ignite a few grains of Black Powder on the plate and wait around to see what happens.

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