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Old June 24, 2016, 10:46 AM   #1
nhcruffler
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How Long to Hold Grudge

Some people hold grudges longer than others. After all, if someone throws you under the bus you tend to remember that action. I have been thinking about getting a semi auto .22lr pistol. The SW 22 Victory catches my eye ….BUT, I fully remember when they were ready to throw everyone under the bus to benefit themselves during the Clinton years. They had reached a compromise with the federal government by accepting some sort of gun control, in return for permission to stay in business, albeit with more strict regulation.
They lost almost half their sales that year due to this action which most strong gun owners felt was a betrayal to the industry.
Their sales are up now and most people never mention that deal to sell out the american people. I am very interested in the SW 22 Victory but am not sure if I can bring myself to purchase one. So , how many here are still holding the grudge?
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Old June 24, 2016, 10:56 AM   #2
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S&W is under new ownership now.

And remember that it was Bill Ruger who didn't want normal capacity magazines for the Mini-14 sold to the common people.

Look long enough and you can find a reason to hate anyone. However, forgiveness is freedom.
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Old June 24, 2016, 10:56 AM   #3
460Kodiak
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Well actually their stock lost 95% of its value with that incident, and it very nearly ruined them completely.

------. You are talking about a decision and a program that was enacted by a CEO who was fired years ago. They weren't trying to sell out the American people, they were trying to ensure the future of their business when gun control was a hot button issue. The current CEO of S&W has said outright that they heard the message loud and clear from gun owners, and won't make the mistake again.

Are you going to hold a grudge against Ruger also because of Bill Ruger's comments on magazine capacity?

You're taking something personal, that isn't personal, and was squashed years ago, and was never actually forced upon us. Would a boycott be warranted in a similar situation? You bet. Is clinging to the past going to get you anywhere? No.
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Last edited by Walkalong; June 24, 2016 at 09:40 PM. Reason: removed non thr comment
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Old June 24, 2016, 10:56 AM   #4
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I'm not holding a grudge with S&W but Cheaper Than Dirt is another story. I don't think I will ever shop there again.

The Victory is pretty sweet. I can't wait until some of the LGS's around here get the threaded model in stock.
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Old June 24, 2016, 10:57 AM   #5
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Are they the same people now? I'm Irish and I'd like to hold a grudge, but my memory is lousy, so if I don't write it down, I forget to hold a grudge against. I'm going out to buy another tablet now.


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Old June 24, 2016, 11:50 AM   #6
243winxb
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Checked out a SW 22 Victory at the club last week. It feels great in my hand. Nice. I didnt get to shoot it, guy just shot the last two magazine as i got there.
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Old June 24, 2016, 11:57 AM   #7
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If CTD went out of business I would not shed a tear. I quit buying stuff from them when they were selling .380 ammo $99.99/50 in the heat of the banic.

The others companies mentioned SEEM to have their hearts right.

Just my .02,
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Last edited by LeonCarr; June 24, 2016 at 12:38 PM.
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Old June 24, 2016, 12:09 PM   #8
nhcruffler
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Thank you all for the quick replies. You guys make some very good points. It was a while ago and they do seam to have learned a lesson from that incident. Those points and the fact that I really like that SW22Victory with threaded barrel have got me thinking its time to drop the grudge and get the Victory ( along with a quiet tube to put on the end) . Thanks and have a great weekend! NH
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Old June 24, 2016, 12:13 PM   #9
Acera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460Kodiak View Post
Are you going to hold a grudge against Ruger also because of Bill Ruger's comments on magazine capacity?
He may, but I would also include a number of other things in addition to his throwing his support for a ban on civilian ownership of magazine over 15 rounds. It was not just in his products, but those of everyone else also.

Not just sales, but possession, no grandfathering of current magazines!! Turn them in/destroy them or become a felon.

Glad only a few of his ideas were included in the Clinton ban, which he supported.

Some good Bill Ruger quotes:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun"

"I never meant for simple citizens to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock"

"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods"


This and his feeling that civilians did not need small easy to conceal handguns.

Look at what the Ruger company has been able to since his death.
Produce and market a number of AR style sporting rifles, and they use STANAG magazines.

Stake a large claim in the concealed carry market.



The two best days for the Ruger company, the day Bill Ruger started it and the day he died.

Personally I am glad he, and his misguided politics, is dead.





.
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Old June 24, 2016, 12:31 PM   #10
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To hold a grudge with S&W for actions taken during the Clinton administration is to be angry with a ghost. The old leadership is gone; the company is under a new umbrella with new management (SWHC) and has since proven by its actions that those words no longer hold.
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Old June 24, 2016, 01:26 PM   #11
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I was reminded of similar issues with Remington. For a while, they made their defensive, short-barreled 870's with a long forend that prevent installation of a side saddle & also had a lock on the safety button.
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Old June 24, 2016, 01:42 PM   #12
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I've never understood why people dislike CTD so much. They act as though they were the ONLY website that raised prices during panic buys.

Myself, I will buy from CTD when they have the lowest price on an item I want, but I don't take it personally. If CTD gave me horrible CS, then I would never buy from them again.
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Old June 24, 2016, 01:43 PM   #13
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Some people hate capitalism...

Quote:
LeonCarr If CTD went out of business I would not shed a tear. I quit buying stuff from them when they were selling .380 ammo $99.99/50 in the heat of the banic.
That's a Bernie Sanders viewpoint of evil capitalism.
Anyone who paid $99.99/50 for .380 ammo deserves to pay exactly that. It's called capitalism.

What evidence do you have that Cheaper Than Dirt actually sold any at that price?

I've was in their stores several times during the ammopanic and although there were people three deep at the ammo wall, not a single person was buying. Kind of tough to make a profit when no one buys your inventory.
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Old June 24, 2016, 02:26 PM   #14
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Sistema1927
Quote:
Look long enough and you can find a reason to hate anyone.
What a great line. Hope you don't mind if I use it.

As far as S&W and Ruger, they are company’s trying to survive.
They may not have made good choices but I doubt that were trying to screw you personally.
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Old June 24, 2016, 02:50 PM   #15
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That one "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun" did not go well with me either. I consider myself an honest man and I wanted as-issued standard magazines with my M1 Carbine (15 and 30 round) as a collectible even though times I went to the mountain with it I sometimes felt I only needed my 5 round magazine.

I still own my Ruger MkII and security Six so I am not holding a grudge.

However because Ruger was viewed as a "reasonable" and "responsible" gun person he was invited to venues where he shot down some blatant lies told by the anti-gun people on the panel.
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Old June 24, 2016, 03:21 PM   #16
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All in all, Bill did a lot more good than harm, IMO. And S&W has come a long, good way since they were under British ownership.

Go for the Victory!
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Old June 24, 2016, 04:43 PM   #17
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Cheaper than dirt . I swore I would never buy from them and lo and behold they had something I couldnt find anywhere else the other day at a good price so I bought from them.

How long to hold a grudge? Havent spoken to my first wife in 26 years and if I saw her walking down the street I'd like to think I would be able to stop myself from doing something I would regret. At the same time I'm not 100% sure I could. I doubt that will ever change.
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Old June 24, 2016, 04:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
That's a Bernie Sanders viewpoint of evil capitalism.
Anyone who paid $99.99/50 for .380 ammo deserves to pay exactly that. It's called capitalism.
No, no it's not. Capitalism has nothing to do with short term effects in a market and price gouging.

Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Capitalism really only addresses normal markets, the definition was never designed to address external shocks to a market place.

Gouging is still gouging, and yes some capitalists are evil. An no, I will never buy from CTD.
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Old June 24, 2016, 04:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
browningguy Quote:
Quote:
That's a Bernie Sanders viewpoint of evil capitalism.
Anyone who paid $99.99/50 for .380 ammo deserves to pay exactly that. It's called capitalism.
No, no it's not. Capitalism has nothing to do with short term effects in a market and price gouging.

Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Capitalism really only addresses normal markets, the definition was never designed to address external shocks to a market place.

Gouging is still gouging, and yes some capitalists are evil. An no, I will never buy from CTD.
You don't the meaning of the word gouging.
(And Texas has a definition in state law.)
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Old June 24, 2016, 08:36 PM   #20
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I don't hold grudges long. Haven't had any situations arise in which doing so would be logical.

As far as with whom I do business, I make my decisions on who has what I want, when I want it, and for what I'd like to pay (or comes the closest.) It's capitalism, which we are taught is inherently evil, but I still have the freedom to participate in it, or to abstain.
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Old June 24, 2016, 09:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman View Post
I've never understood why people dislike CTD so much. They act as though they were the ONLY website that raised prices during panic buys.

Myself, I will buy from CTD when they have the lowest price on an item I want, but I don't take it personally. If CTD gave me horrible CS, then I would never buy from them again.
They didn't just "raise" prices, they were charging $99 for a single 30 round aluminum AR magazine.

They pulled their modern sporting rifle sales (or was it all firearms?) completely.

Sure, they are free to do those things. And I am free to never spend another dime with them. Which I haven't, and I used to buy from them. I haven't spent a dime with Dick's since that time, either. Troy is now on the list. And EOTech but then I always thought they were unreliable based on reports and failures and never would have bought one to begin with lol
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Old June 24, 2016, 09:49 PM   #22
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For businesses and such, I could usually care little unless it's over pricing schemes and dishonesty. After all, if one was to swear off a company over some policy or stance that may be considered "Anti", you'd be VERY limited on where you'd be shopping and well, very possibly where you'd be working. To me, if you're really serious you go in fully, and not as a "pick and choose" methodology.
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Old June 24, 2016, 09:55 PM   #23
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Forget about it.

In 2,000 when the deed was done, S&W was owned and controlled by a British investment company, Tompkins LLC.

They were later bought by Safety-Hammer,.
And later, reorganized as an employee owned company.

The present day American owned S&W company has absolutely nothing at all to do with the ownership, or policies in place 16 years ago when it was a British owned company.
Except the grand old name, and the fine guns they still make today.

If you want one, buy one.

It has nothing at all to do with what happened 16 years ago!!

rc
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Old June 24, 2016, 10:11 PM   #24
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While we are complaining about S&W, how about they open their indoor range up to "regular people" since it is a nice facility to use during the winter! If people have a nice place to shoot, they buy more guns. (personal theory)
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Old June 24, 2016, 10:16 PM   #25
rcmodel
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Do you live in Springfield Mass, or close enough to use it if they did???

If you do, maybe you should just drive on over there and ask them??

rc
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