Boom Headshot - .50 style

George Hill · June 27, 2007, 07:12 PM

This is amazing. Willie, the guy shooting the AR-50 is a friend of mine.
The target, a 1" steel plate was 100 yards away.
You can hear the ping of the hit, then the bullet comes back and hits him in the head.

http://www.digg.com/videos/sports/Ma...rom_a_50_rifle
Willie is okay, and obviously very lucky. The bullet grazed his temple.
Can anyone calculate the velocity?

igpoobah · June 27, 2007, 07:16 PM

That's nuckin futs!

kcmarine · June 27, 2007, 07:18 PM

HOLY CRAP.

Jason_G · June 27, 2007, 07:22 PM

Looked like it took a one-hopper before it hit poor Willie. It's probably a good thing, too! If you watch close it looks like the bullet kicks up some dust as it hits the ground just before hitting him in the head.

Jason

GotGlock · June 27, 2007, 07:25 PM

Holy CRAP, the sound it made on incoming is freaking scary, like a small artillery round. That guy is lucky it hit the ground first.

PercyShelley · June 27, 2007, 07:30 PM

To calculate velocity, one would need the velocity of the .50 bullet at 90 meters and the coefficient of restitution (COR how "bouncy" a material is) of a lead on steel collision. I suppose it would be important to subtract the air velocity of a tumbling projectile coming back another 90 meters, but that's trickier.

I can't find exact numbers, but everywhere I read says that steel has a very high COR; your choice to avoid steel targets in the future is probably very wise. While lead has a low COR, it's pretty obvious now that the steel is springy enough to redirect bullets at shooters.

Edit: Duh!

Just read the blog.

It's about two seconds from the steel target getting hit to the bullet returning. 50 ft/sec with a 700 grain projectile isn't anything to snort at.

kcmarine · June 27, 2007, 07:47 PM

Someone better be at church this Sunday...

Nightcrawler · June 27, 2007, 07:50 PM

That's not supposed to be possible!

WOW!

jlbraun · June 27, 2007, 07:58 PM

Yay, math.

It's about 1.3 seconds from the "ping" to the "thup-OW!". Sound takes about 0.3 seconds to travel 100 yards. So 1.6 seconds travel time, or 187 feet per second. That's about 52 foot-pounds with a 668 grain bullet (assuming a complete bullet hit your friend, unlikely).

That's still quite a bit, about equivalent to a powerful BB gun. I think that bounce it took off the ground took a lot out of it.

George Hill · June 27, 2007, 08:03 PM

I don't think a bb gun would knock the earmuffs off his head like that.
Even the most powerful BB guns at 1400 FPS wouldn't do that. That slug, however much of it was left, still packed a lot of momentum.

MarshallDodge · June 27, 2007, 08:05 PM

WoW!

I'm glad Willies OK.

This last year at a bowling pin shoot a bullet came back 75 feet and smacked the backside of the scorer's laptop. It was enough to break the screen.

SlamFire1 · June 27, 2007, 08:12 PM

Perhaps too he was using ball ammunition which is far more prone to ricochet than a frangible bullet.

I was talking to a fellow shooter at a Military range last year and we were talking range safety fan issues. If you are unaware the fan got bigger over time. He made the comment that you just don’t know what is going on with these FMJ type bullets because you can’t see them. However, he had been shooting 30 tracer at a berm with a machine gun and he said you would not believe, until you see it, the bullets emerging from the ground and exiting virtually all directions. Including straight back.

The gun club I belong to just established a safe distance standard for metal targets and pistols. I have no idea what a safe distance is for .30 cal. We don’t allow 50 cal shooters, we don’t have the downrange safe zone. But from what I see, I think 200 yards still might be too close.

Obviously this shooter was too close to the steel target with that 50 caliber. Lucky darn thing the bullet was spent.

jlbraun · June 27, 2007, 08:13 PM

George, consider the difference between energy and momentum. A 668 grain .50BMG bullet going 187.5ft/s has 22.6 times the momentum of a 6.9gr BB going 800ft/s.

So, you're right. A BB gun couldn't knock Willie's muffs off, but a big ole .50BMG ricochet sure will, because it's got way more momentum - even though the two projectiles have the same energy. That ricochet has about the same momentum as a golf ball on a fairway drive. Ow!

By the way, I read your site. Great review of the P-01, I bought one because of it.

Egad. Back to work.

ilcylic · June 27, 2007, 08:19 PM

Hey, now that's a story topper for the bar.

"Oh yeah? I got shot in the head with a .50 BMG!"

heypete · June 27, 2007, 08:20 PM

Was the steel plate vertical, or at an incline?

When I shoot steel, I generally arrange it so it's closer at the top than at the bottom, such that anything striking it would be deflected into the ground. I usually use a 45 angle.

If the plate was vertical, the bullet is much more likely to come back.

Glad to hear he's ok. I'd need a new set of underwear if that happened to me.

sm · June 27, 2007, 08:27 PM

Whoa!!

Daemon688 · June 27, 2007, 08:29 PM

So that's what a .50 sounds like comming at you

I hope I never have such an experience.

RecoilRob · June 27, 2007, 08:41 PM

Looks like the steel target was pretty tough stuff. My targets are 5/8 annealed 12"x12" and 12"x18" and AP goes right through while ball sticks the core over half-way in every time. And they go flying when hit.

Shooting at something so big, heavy and tough that the core won't penetrate and the target won't easily move is inviting just such an unpleasant return visit from a rebounding core.

But, the odds of getting the target set exactly square to the shooter, and him hitting it just right to get the bullet back to the head falls into the category of 'one of those amazing things that happen'.

Very grateful that no injury was suffered...other than to the earmuff. And thanks a bunch for posting the video. It's a keeper!

George Hill · June 27, 2007, 09:00 PM

Willie had the plate set back at a 45* angle, and 45* to the side as well. That it came straight back like this is very odd. Someone upstairs was messing with him.

The muffs are the electronic Caldwells.

Noxx · June 27, 2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

The muffs are the electronic Caldwells.

They were, anyway.

Man that's a sound I never want to hear.

krochus · June 27, 2007, 09:05 PM

And that's why I don't shoot steel with anything jacketed

fatelk · June 27, 2007, 09:14 PM

I still have a very faint scar right between my eyes from doing something similar with a 30-06. I was young and stupid and only about 50ft away with WWII AP. Ouch

**Dr.Rob** · June 27, 2007, 09:22 PM

Wow.... that's all I can say.

Well-Armed Lamb · June 27, 2007, 09:36 PM

Holy *crap,* Ogre. Glad your friend's okay. That footage is +2 to scary, and then some. The sound of that oncoming round dang near turns my bones to water; I can only imagine what it must have been like to be there.

"That's the last one o' them we're doin'!" Wise men, indeed.

Seancass · June 27, 2007, 09:43 PM

that is truely amazing to see. really glad he's ok!

June 27, 2007, 07:12 PM	#1
George Hill Member Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: Uintah Basin, UT Posts: 6,845	Boom Headshot - .50 style This is amazing. Willie, the guy shooting the AR-50 is a friend of mine. The target, a 1" steel plate was 100 yards away. You can hear the ping of the hit, then the bullet comes back and hits him in the head. http://www.digg.com/videos/sports/Ma...rom_a_50_rifle Willie is okay, and obviously very lucky. The bullet grazed his temple. Can anyone calculate the velocity? __________________ MAD OGRE "Courage is when you are afraid, but you saddle up anyway." Last edited by George Hill; June 30, 2007 at 04:49 PM.

June 27, 2007, 07:18 PM	#3
kcmarine Member Join Date: February 28, 2007 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 1,320	*HOLY CRAP.* __________________ Not a real Marine. Just one on Halo and CoD4. A well- regulated airsoft team, being necessary to the entertainment of the teenage state, the right of the pranksters to Keep and Bear paintball guns, shall not be infringed.

June 27, 2007, 07:25 PM	#5
GotGlock Member Join Date: September 19, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay, Florida Posts: 213	Holy CRAP, the sound it made on incoming is freaking scary, like a small artillery round. That guy is lucky it hit the ground first. __________________ www.ronpaul2008.com

June 27, 2007, 07:30 PM	#6
PercyShelley Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 987	To calculate velocity, one would need the velocity of the .50 bullet at 90 meters and the coefficient of restitution (COR how "bouncy" a material is) of a lead on steel collision. I suppose it would be important to subtract the air velocity of a tumbling projectile coming back another 90 meters, but that's trickier. I can't find exact numbers, but everywhere I read says that steel has a very high COR; your choice to avoid steel targets in the future is probably very wise. While lead has a low COR, it's pretty obvious now that the steel is springy enough to redirect bullets at shooters. Edit: Duh! Just read the blog. It's about two seconds from the steel target getting hit to the bullet returning. 50 ft/sec with a 700 grain projectile isn't anything to snort at. __________________ Sow seed-but let no tyrant reap; Find wealth-let no impostor heap; Weave robes-let not the idle wear; Forge arms-in your defense to bear. -Percy Bysshe Shelley, Song to the Men of England, 1819

June 27, 2007, 07:47 PM	#7
kcmarine Member Join Date: February 28, 2007 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 1,320	Someone better be at church this Sunday... __________________ Not a real Marine. Just one on Halo and CoD4. A well- regulated airsoft team, being necessary to the entertainment of the teenage state, the right of the pranksters to Keep and Bear paintball guns, shall not be infringed.

June 27, 2007, 07:16 PM	#2
igpoobah Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 582	That's nuckin futs!

June 27, 2007, 07:22 PM	#4
Jason_G Member Join Date: June 13, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,425	Looked like it took a one-hopper before it hit poor Willie. It's probably a good thing, too! If you watch close it looks like the bullet kicks up some dust as it hits the ground just before hitting him in the head. Jason

June 27, 2007, 07:50 PM	#8
Nightcrawler Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: Utah, inside the Terraformed Zone Posts: 6,954	That's not supposed to be possible! WOW!

June 27, 2007, 07:58 PM	#9
jlbraun Member Join Date: December 29, 2005 Posts: 2,200	Yay, math. It's about 1.3 seconds from the "ping" to the "thup-OW!". Sound takes about 0.3 seconds to travel 100 yards. So 1.6 seconds travel time, or 187 feet per second. That's about 52 foot-pounds with a 668 grain bullet (assuming a complete bullet hit your friend, unlikely). That's still quite a bit, about equivalent to a powerful BB gun. I think that bounce it took off the ground took a lot out of it. __________________ "Liberals that like people other than cops to have guns are ballsy. Not only are they claiming that they think they can fix the government, but they're also saying that they're so sure of it, they don't worry that irate constituents will have the ability to shoot them." Gun control is archaic, outdated, racist, classist, and sexist. It has no place in a modern, tolerant, and liberal society. Being pro-gun is a liberal value. Ron Paul 2008

June 27, 2007, 08:03 PM	#10
George Hill Member Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: Uintah Basin, UT Posts: 6,845	I don't think a bb gun would knock the earmuffs off his head like that. Even the most powerful BB guns at 1400 FPS wouldn't do that. That slug, however much of it was left, still packed a lot of momentum. __________________ MAD OGRE "Courage is when you are afraid, but you saddle up anyway."

June 27, 2007, 08:05 PM	#11
MarshallDodge Member Join Date: November 7, 2005 Location: Utah, USA Posts: 1,141	WoW! I'm glad Willies OK. This last year at a bowling pin shoot a bullet came back 75 feet and smacked the backside of the scorer's laptop. It was enough to break the screen. __________________ "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective."Ted Nugent Utah Concealed Carry

June 27, 2007, 08:12 PM	#12
SlamFire1 Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,887	Perhaps too he was using ball ammunition which is far more prone to ricochet than a frangible bullet. I was talking to a fellow shooter at a Military range last year and we were talking range safety fan issues. If you are unaware the fan got bigger over time. He made the comment that you just don’t know what is going on with these FMJ type bullets because you can’t see them. However, he had been shooting 30 tracer at a berm with a machine gun and he said you would not believe, until you see it, the bullets emerging from the ground and exiting virtually all directions. Including straight back. The gun club I belong to just established a safe distance standard for metal targets and pistols. I have no idea what a safe distance is for .30 cal. We don’t allow 50 cal shooters, we don’t have the downrange safe zone. But from what I see, I think 200 yards still might be too close. Obviously this shooter was too close to the steel target with that 50 caliber. Lucky darn thing the bullet was spent. __________________ Accuracy is a skill acquired through constant practice.

June 27, 2007, 08:13 PM	#13
jlbraun Member Join Date: December 29, 2005 Posts: 2,200	George, consider the difference between energy and momentum. A 668 grain .50BMG bullet going 187.5ft/s has 22.6 times the momentum of a 6.9gr BB going 800ft/s. So, you're right. A BB gun couldn't knock Willie's muffs off, but a big ole .50BMG ricochet sure will, because it's got way more momentum - even though the two projectiles have the same energy. That ricochet has about the same momentum as a golf ball on a fairway drive. Ow! By the way, I read your site. Great review of the P-01, I bought one because of it. Egad. Back to work. __________________ "Liberals that like people other than cops to have guns are ballsy. Not only are they claiming that they think they can fix the government, but they're also saying that they're so sure of it, they don't worry that irate constituents will have the ability to shoot them." Gun control is archaic, outdated, racist, classist, and sexist. It has no place in a modern, tolerant, and liberal society. Being pro-gun is a liberal value. Ron Paul 2008

June 27, 2007, 08:19 PM	#14
ilcylic Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Location: Desert Southwest, USA Posts: 1,003	Hey, now that's a story topper for the bar. "Oh yeah? I got shot in the head with a .50 BMG!" __________________ "It's the STAKES that matter. Not the odds." -- Lee Lapin, regarding "needing" a CCW "Wealth and freedom are stamped on the opposite sides of a single coin." -- Standing Wolf Μολὼν λαβέ See Cypherpunks write code. See Cypherpunks deploy code. See Governments fall.

June 27, 2007, 08:20 PM	#15
heypete Member Join Date: September 12, 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 967	Was the steel plate vertical, or at an incline? When I shoot steel, I generally arrange it so it's closer at the top than at the bottom, such that anything striking it would be deflected into the ground. I usually use a 45 angle. If the plate was vertical, the bullet is much more likely to come back. Glad to hear he's ok. I'd need a new set of underwear if that happened to me.

June 27, 2007, 08:27 PM	#16
sm Member Join Date: December 23, 2002 Posts: 26,516	Whoa!! __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL illuminaughty

June 27, 2007, 08:29 PM	#17
Daemon688 Member Join Date: March 31, 2004 Location: MN Posts: 797	So that's what a .50 sounds like comming at you I hope I never have such an experience.

June 27, 2007, 08:41 PM	#18
RecoilRob Member Join Date: September 30, 2003 Location: SW PA Posts: 1,000	Looks like the steel target was pretty tough stuff. My targets are 5/8 annealed 12"x12" and 12"x18" and AP goes right through while ball sticks the core over half-way in every time. And they go flying when hit. Shooting at something so big, heavy and tough that the core won't penetrate and the target won't easily move is inviting just such an unpleasant return visit from a rebounding core. But, the odds of getting the target set exactly square to the shooter, and him hitting it just right to get the bullet back to the head falls into the category of 'one of those amazing things that happen'. Very grateful that no injury was suffered...other than to the earmuff. And thanks a bunch for posting the video. It's a keeper!

June 27, 2007, 09:00 PM	#19
George Hill Member Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: Uintah Basin, UT Posts: 6,845	Willie had the plate set back at a 45* angle, and 45* to the side as well. That it came straight back like this is very odd. Someone upstairs was messing with him. The muffs are the electronic Caldwells. __________________ MAD OGRE "Courage is when you are afraid, but you saddle up anyway."

June 27, 2007, 09:05 PM	#21
krochus Member Join Date: October 14, 2005 Location: Northwest Arkansas Posts: 5,871	And that's why I don't shoot steel with anything jacketed __________________ *Have you taken an AR15 hunting recently? Please think of the poor unfortunate EBR's will you?* .223 rem Buck 7.62x39mm Doe

June 27, 2007, 09:14 PM	#22
fatelk Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 820	I still have a very faint scar right between my eyes from doing something similar with a 30-06. I was young and stupid and only about 50ft away with WWII AP. Ouch

June 27, 2007, 09:22 PM	#23
Dr.Rob Moderator Join Date: December 23, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,934	Wow.... that's all I can say. __________________ Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)

June 27, 2007, 09:36 PM	#24
Well-Armed Lamb Member Join Date: April 29, 2006 Posts: 67	Holy crap, Ogre. Glad your friend's okay. That footage is +2 to scary, and then some. The sound of that oncoming round dang near turns my bones to water; I can only imagine what it must have been like to be there. "That's the last one o' them we're doin'!" Wise men, indeed.

June 27, 2007, 09:43 PM	#25
Seancass Member Join Date: May 1, 2006 Location: purdue, indiana Posts: 949	that is truely amazing to see. really glad he's ok! __________________ i need a job. hire me.

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