Ballistic gelatin test results : .45-70GOV >DERRINGER<

JE223 · July 15, 2007, 01:39 AM

Special thanks to J.K. for funding this test in full.

Cartridge : Federal 300 grain SP (Speer Hot-Cor SP)

Firearm : American Derringer Model 4 (.45-70GOV) with 1.5" effective barrel length

Block calibration : All depths corrected (From 11.2cm @ 586 ft/sec (Block 1) and 8.6cm @ 588 ft/sec (Stopper block))

Single shot fired from 6" distance. Bullet impacted at unknown velocity, penetrated to 26.3" and expanded to 0.614" average diameter. Bullet recovered at 287.0gr weight.

If you look close at pic #1, you can see the grains of unburnt propellant in the wound track and on the front face of the block.

dao · July 15, 2007, 03:44 AM

Impressive, for such a short barrel.

By the way, at short range, it's a flamethrower, too.

Dgindlesperger · July 15, 2007, 03:46 AM

damn that would hurt like hell to shoot

fletcher · July 15, 2007, 10:18 AM

.45-70 derringer?

That looks pretty good for being fired out of a 1.5" barrel.

Avenger · July 15, 2007, 10:56 AM

Wow, I gotta ask: What was the recoil like, or did you fire from a vise?

JE223 · July 15, 2007, 11:21 AM

- oh no... I used a vise. The owner of the gun was good enough to let me put it in a vise... so the wooden grips are ruined, but my hand is still in one piece.

The noise from firing was fantastic. It was probably the loudest gun I have ever heard and I was 30 feet away from the muzzle, using a steel cable to pull the trigger!

Shear_stress · July 15, 2007, 12:15 PM

Holy carpal tunnel syndrome, Batman!!

Did you have to wear welder's goggles when you set that beast off? Does the manual tell you to scream "fire in the hole!" when you pull the trigger? Does the Forest Service you tell you to keep that thing out of the woods on hot, dry days? Do you still have eyebrows? Can it fire grape shot? I could go on . . .

a1huntingsupply · July 15, 2007, 12:47 PM

It might be safer to toss it to the bad guy

let him get hurt.

Very impressive though.

Wedge · July 15, 2007, 12:50 PM

Whoa!

JE223 · July 15, 2007, 03:02 PM

J.K., the gent who funded the test and sent me the gun, actually fired it once by hand. I think he said it was akin to holding out your hand, and having someone hit it with a hammer. His hand hurt for a week, he said.

The thing was gnarly in the vise too ... I purposefully clamped it hard enough to indent the wood, hoping that it would not move. It actually moved back about 4" in the jaws of the vise, before coming to a stop and rotating the gun skyward. Luckily for me, the barrel rotated into a support structure on the vise, which stopped the guns motion. I should have videotaped it!

JE

Kilgor · July 16, 2007, 04:42 AM

Wow! If I lived in a place where there were big bears I would keep one in my pocket. A lot handier than a large revolver and you likely will only get 1 shot anyway. The spray of burning powder ought to help at 5-10 feet in addition to the 300 grain hotcore .455" bullet.

That's the only purpose that I can see for this gun. It penetrates too much for social use.

Heh. I'd shoot it at least once from my hand.

Titan6 · July 16, 2007, 08:52 AM

I'd shoot it just to see but would certainly have my hearing protection doubled up. 26 inches? Wow! not to many bullets I know of from a handgun will go that far. I am willing to bet that it is armor piercing which would make it an interesting BUG in case you had an armored target to face. Of course could you ever get close enough to use it?

Headless · July 16, 2007, 11:17 AM

LOL holy cow

General Geoff · July 16, 2007, 04:26 PM

what's next, a .50BMG derringer??

JE223 · July 16, 2007, 04:38 PM

I'm game for that.

AndyC · July 16, 2007, 04:51 PM

I would love to see a picture or slow-motion video of the muzzleflash - but I'm not shooting it

Odd Job · July 16, 2007, 05:00 PM

Pics, pics, pics...
...of the derringer please

aspade · July 16, 2007, 05:17 PM

I wonder what the MV was.

KevininPa · July 16, 2007, 07:35 PM

..........my Bond Arms was a handful (.45 LC/ .410 ).

Kevin in Pa

Anna's Dad · July 16, 2007, 07:39 PM

The fact that the whole thing just didn't blow up in the vice speaks towards the quality of American Derringer guns. I'm impressed!

JE223 · July 16, 2007, 09:18 PM

I'll have to get back with the pictures of the actual gun used in the test, but here is a stock photo from AD :

http://www.amderringer.com/m4.html

The actual gun traveled a few inches in the vice jaws upon recoiling, so the wooden grips are heavily damaged... I'll get that photo out in a short while.

FieroCDSP · July 17, 2007, 03:32 PM

Well, the only question now is 32S&W or 45-70Gov?

Can you imagine the laughter on a BG's smarmy face when you pull that gun on him?
"You;'re going to use that?!!?!"

BOOOOM!!

Kaylee · July 17, 2007, 04:34 PM

heh... the Noisy Cricket.

MEH · July 17, 2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

heh... the Noisy Cricket.

One of my most favorite futuristic weapons!

telomerase · July 18, 2007, 10:53 PM

Next time don't use a vise, mount the gun in a second gel block to measure its effect on the user.

July 15, 2007, 03:46 AM	#3
Dgindlesperger Member Join Date: December 8, 2006 Location: PortLand OR Posts: 98	damn that would hurt like hell to shoot __________________ Dan G. Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam

July 15, 2007, 10:18 AM	#4
fletcher Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Euless, TX Posts: 2,398	.45-70 derringer? That looks pretty good for being fired out of a 1.5" barrel. __________________ My Site / Shooters in Raleigh & Surrounding Area / Ammo Deals (Made by THR's squeky) Whatever the reason, handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid. - DC v. Heller

July 15, 2007, 11:21 AM	#6
JE223 Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Eastern border of the United States Posts: 1,213	- oh no... I used a vise. The owner of the gun was good enough to let me put it in a vise... so the wooden grips are ruined, but my hand is still in one piece. The noise from firing was fantastic. It was probably the loudest gun I have ever heard and I was 30 feet away from the muzzle, using a steel cable to pull the trigger! __________________ "Our work here is conducted in order to keep the victims of aggression alive, and the knowledge that it succeeds is our reward." - Jeff Cooper Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing: www.brassfetcher.com

July 15, 2007, 12:47 PM	#8
a1huntingsupply Member Join Date: July 28, 2006 Location: Deer Park, Texas Posts: 34	It might be safer to toss it to the bad guy let him get hurt. Very impressive though. __________________ A-1 Hunting and Shooting Supply - www.a1huntingsupply.com

July 15, 2007, 03:02 PM	#10
JE223 Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Eastern border of the United States Posts: 1,213	J.K., the gent who funded the test and sent me the gun, actually fired it once by hand. I think he said it was akin to holding out your hand, and having someone hit it with a hammer. His hand hurt for a week, he said. The thing was gnarly in the vise too ... I purposefully clamped it hard enough to indent the wood, hoping that it would not move. It actually moved back about 4" in the jaws of the vise, before coming to a stop and rotating the gun skyward. Luckily for me, the barrel rotated into a support structure on the vise, which stopped the guns motion. I should have videotaped it! JE __________________ "Our work here is conducted in order to keep the victims of aggression alive, and the knowledge that it succeeds is our reward." - Jeff Cooper Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing: www.brassfetcher.com

July 15, 2007, 03:44 AM	#2
dao Member Join Date: February 21, 2006 Posts: 68	Impressive, for such a short barrel. By the way, at short range, it's a flamethrower, too.

July 15, 2007, 10:56 AM	#5
Avenger Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Posts: 631	Wow, I gotta ask: What was the recoil like, or did you fire from a vise?

July 15, 2007, 12:15 PM	#7
Shear_stress Member Join Date: April 27, 2005 Location: Neither here nor there Posts: 1,894	Holy carpal tunnel syndrome, Batman!! Did you have to wear welder's goggles when you set that beast off? Does the manual tell you to scream "fire in the hole!" when you pull the trigger? Does the Forest Service you tell you to keep that thing out of the woods on hot, dry days? Do you still have eyebrows? Can it fire grape shot? I could go on . . .

July 15, 2007, 12:50 PM	#9
Wedge Member Join Date: October 6, 2003 Posts: 1,515	Whoa!

July 16, 2007, 04:42 AM	#11
Kilgor Member Join Date: December 29, 2002 Posts: 401	Wow! If I lived in a place where there were big bears I would keep one in my pocket. A lot handier than a large revolver and you likely will only get 1 shot anyway. The spray of burning powder ought to help at 5-10 feet in addition to the 300 grain hotcore .455" bullet. That's the only purpose that I can see for this gun. It penetrates too much for social use. Heh. I'd shoot it at least once from my hand.

July 16, 2007, 08:52 AM	#12
Titan6 member Join Date: February 7, 2007 Location: Gillikin Country Posts: 4,759	I'd shoot it just to see but would certainly have my hearing protection doubled up. 26 inches? Wow! not to many bullets I know of from a handgun will go that far. I am willing to bet that it is armor piercing which would make it an interesting BUG in case you had an armored target to face. Of course could you ever get close enough to use it?

July 16, 2007, 04:26 PM	#14
General Geoff Member Join Date: November 28, 2006 Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania Posts: 3,449	what's next, a .50BMG derringer?? __________________ "Be not afraid of any man, No matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me And I will equalize."

July 16, 2007, 04:38 PM	#15
JE223 Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Eastern border of the United States Posts: 1,213	I'm game for that. __________________ "Our work here is conducted in order to keep the victims of aggression alive, and the knowledge that it succeeds is our reward." - Jeff Cooper Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing: www.brassfetcher.com

July 16, 2007, 04:51 PM	#16
AndyC Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 2,566	I would love to see a picture or slow-motion video of the muzzleflash - but I'm not shooting it __________________ "Since concealed carry permits prevent the criminal from knowing who is armed and who is not, those who are not armed benefit from the general deterrent effect as criminals choose non-confrontational crime rather than risk being shot." - Dangerous Women: Feminism, Self Defense and Civil Rights - Robert L. Barrow and Dr. Gary Mauser "Accuracy in combat is inversely proportional to the pucker-factor." My Iraq Pics

July 16, 2007, 05:00 PM	#17
Odd Job Member Join Date: July 16, 2006 Location: London (ex SA) Posts: 1,503	Pics, pics, pics... ...of the derringer please

July 16, 2007, 05:17 PM	#18
aspade Member Join Date: April 2, 2006 Location: People's Republik of Maryland Posts: 252	I wonder what the MV was.

July 16, 2007, 07:35 PM	#19
KevininPa Member Join Date: May 19, 2007 Location: Lehigh Valley, Pa Posts: 493	And I thought........... ..........my Bond Arms was a handful (.45 LC/ .410 ). Kevin in Pa

July 16, 2007, 07:39 PM	#20
Anna's Dad Member Join Date: April 28, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 619	The fact that the whole thing just didn't blow up in the vice speaks towards the quality of American Derringer guns. I'm impressed! __________________ __________ Anna's Dad

July 16, 2007, 09:18 PM	#21
JE223 Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Eastern border of the United States Posts: 1,213	I'll have to get back with the pictures of the actual gun used in the test, but here is a stock photo from AD : http://www.amderringer.com/m4.html The actual gun traveled a few inches in the vice jaws upon recoiling, so the wooden grips are heavily damaged... I'll get that photo out in a short while. __________________ "Our work here is conducted in order to keep the victims of aggression alive, and the knowledge that it succeeds is our reward." - Jeff Cooper Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing: www.brassfetcher.com

July 17, 2007, 03:32 PM	#22
FieroCDSP Member Join Date: November 12, 2006 Location: Wooster, Ohio Posts: 2,149	Well, the only question now is 32S&W or 45-70Gov? Can you imagine the laughter on a BG's smarmy face when you pull that gun on him? "You;'re going to use that?!!?!" BOOOOM!! __________________ "Just assume the Glock in question fires both a "nine" and a "fo-tay" and does it under-water, like any true "Ultimate Doom-Bringer" gun can, and you'll sleep better. " :) Years of Communist oppression have made the Mosin Nagant impervious to physical damage. I love all guns. After all, Is it not love that we need to show them to help keep them from turning astray, away from gangs, and off the streets. ::sniffs and tears up::

July 17, 2007, 04:34 PM	#23
Kaylee Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 19, 2002 Location: The Last Homely House Posts: 3,752	heh... the Noisy Cricket.

July 18, 2007, 10:53 PM	#25
telomerase Member Join Date: March 11, 2003 Location: The bear-infested hills of Grafton NH Posts: 2,165	Next time don't use a vise, mount the gun in a second gel block to measure its effect on the user.

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