ATF House visit part II:

alpha6164 · July 16, 2007, 07:18 PM

I am sorry that the original thread got shut down. I do appreciate all the inputs, but please lets keep it on topic.

UPDATE:

I called my ex-FBI friend who is also a criminal attorney. I told him the situation and he said that he certainly believes that its the multiple handguns in a single setting situation. This guy also is very connected in town. His father used to be the sherrif about 25yrs ago and he recently ran for sherrif himself and didn't win (came in 2nd)

He asked for the agents name and # and said he wants to give him a call.

He called me back in 15min and said that he was on the phone with the agent for a good 7-8min. He did introduce himself not as an attorney, but a friend and his credentials and that he has been my friend for several years. The agent did tell him that it was about the "mulitple handgun purchase and relating matters..." He did not go into what the "relating matters." In a sense, this guy vouched for me that he has known me for several years and that besides my private practice, i am also an assistant professor at a U.F. etc etc. The friend said that based on the agent's answers and tone it does not seem that i am under any investigation and that i should speak to them without him being present. He did also say that if at any point the questions go outside the scope of normality and the intended purchase of the guns etc etc, to stop the conversation and call him. The agent also had told him that they have had low man power and that is why they still have not come by my office to talk to me but they will be talking to me sometimes this week. I appreciate all the inputs so far. I will definitely keep you guys informed as to what happens next. Wish me luck!

CajunBass · July 16, 2007, 07:20 PM

Good luck my friend.

**Justin** · July 16, 2007, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the update.

Alphazulu6 · July 16, 2007, 07:22 PM

Good Luck

springmom · July 16, 2007, 07:32 PM

Glad to hear you weren't kidnapped by the Black Helicopters (sorry, couldn't resist...just kidding!)

Sounds like you have all your eventualities covered. Good luck with it, but I expect you'll be just fine.

Springmom

Harry Paget Flashman · July 16, 2007, 10:28 PM

Since you are the Doctor, make the agent wait at least 15 minutes past the appointment time.

rosco22 · July 16, 2007, 10:33 PM

Hope they don't shoot you're dog .

Dont talk with out a lawyer . Dont let him/them inside you're house . Dont let him see the weapons with out a warrant .

The ATF is not you're friend .

Quote:

rosco22:

That was not very professional.

Doc2005

maybe not Doc , but its the truth . I have seen what these clowns do .

wally · July 16, 2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Dont talk with out a lawyer . Dont let him/them inside you're house

Agreed, but I'd probably not spring for a lawyer until I knew for sure what was going on. Certainly say nothing without a lawyer if they accuse you of anything.

Quote:

Dont let him see the weapons with out a warrant

Disagree with this. I doubt they'll have any trouble at all getting one and then will legally tear up your place, and have the perfect opportunity to plant evidence if so inclined. If its a simple multiple purchase check up, simply answer their questions and if going inside to retrieve the guns in question to show you really own them will send him away, do so.

I've done many multiple purchases (although never duplicates of the same exact gun) over the years and never have been contacted, but then I also have registered class III so they know I like guns.

--wally.

blackhawk2000 · July 16, 2007, 10:52 PM

He's a Doctor who buys multiple guns in one trip to the gun store. I think he can afford a lawyer.

Remember you have everything to lose.

Deanimator · July 17, 2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Agreed, but I'd probably not spring for a lawyer until I knew for sure what was going on. Certainly say nothing without a lawyer if they accuse you of anything.

Seeing that he's a physician and NOT a lawyer, HOW would he know IF he knew what was going on?

If a layman gets to that point, it may be too late.

A competent lawyer has a good chance of smelling a rat BEFORE the guy talks himself into trouble, no matter how innocently.

vtoddball · July 17, 2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

The agent also had told him that they have had low man power and that is why they still have not come by my office to talk to me

Best news I've heard in a long time.

SSN Vet · July 17, 2007, 10:40 AM

a rational response from a rational man (your attorney friend)...

what a rare thing to hear of in this day and age.

AndyC · July 17, 2007, 11:07 AM

Glad to hear it seems to be going so well - best of luck

Two Cold Soakers · July 17, 2007, 11:30 AM

Ahhhhh, Now that was good news.

Nice work, doctor.

Mannlicher · July 17, 2007, 05:39 PM

Doc,

I live in Gainesville myself, and I have some long standing connections in the local legal profession. Call me if you need someone to chew the fat with, or to refer you to someone.

I find my self in agreement with those that say to not speak to the ATF at all without your attorney present. Things can 'happen'................. and an innocent visit can turn into something all together different in a heartbeat.

Sam

Scorpiusdeus · July 17, 2007, 06:16 PM

Forget the advice of your actual Lawyer, go with paranoia, it works for some of the guys here.

Scorpiusdeus · July 17, 2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Seeing that he's a physician and NOT a lawyer, HOW would he know IF he knew what was going on?

Yes, right, of course, everyone knows that Doctors aren't that sharp. I'm sure they'll steamroll right over the simpleton.

Where do you have your JD from by the Way?

Doc, just listen carefully to what they are asking you, think about your answers and "I" have enough faith in your intelligence that if it starts getting weird, you'll know when to shut up and lawyer up.

CajunBass · July 17, 2007, 06:43 PM

From the original post.

Quote:

I called my ex-FBI friend who is also a criminal attorney......The friend said that based on the agent's answers and tone it does not seem that i am under any investigation and that i should speak to them without him being present. He did also say that if at any point the questions go outside the scope of normality and the intended purchase of the guns etc etc, to stop the conversation and call him.

Let me see. You have advice from a lawer, and "some guys on the internet."

I wonder who I'd listen to?

Black Majik · July 17, 2007, 06:45 PM

"Ah the Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco and firearms. I take it this isn't about the alcohol or tobacco..."

Good luck man, I'm interested to hear the outcome.

kungfuhippie · July 17, 2007, 07:00 PM

Oh don't worry the BATFE is your friend, they keep guns out of the hands of certain people. They make sure you don't have guns that would instantly turn you into a felon. Who knew that just owning certain guns changes your thinking patterns, removes your agency and makes you start robbing banks, killing bystanders, and join Al-Queda.
<sarcasm off>

Listen to your lawyer, don't foilhat-up like some of us keyboard commandos would suggest. Let us know how it all turns out.

Deanimator · July 17, 2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Yes, right, of course, everyone knows that Doctors aren't that sharp. I'm sure they'll steamroll right over the simpleton.

It's happened.

I wouldn't hire a lawyer to remove a brain tumor.

I wouldn't hire a doctor to keep me from getting entrapped by the BATFE.

Quote:

Where do you have your JD from by the Way?

The same as you, a box of Cracker Jacks.

I'm just smart enough to KNOW I don't have a JD.

That's why I'd NEVER talk to the BATFE without a lawyer present. That seems to rile you a might. There's probably a reason for that...

**PvtPyle** · July 17, 2007, 08:11 PM

Part of the interrogation technique that they are trained to use is to get you in a comfortable setting so you feel more at ease. I have been the subject of several friendly and custodial interrogations and you DO NOT WANT THEM AT YOUR HOUSE. Period. It does not matter what the reason is. YOU DO NOT WANT THEM AT YOUR HOUSE. They can use anything they see or hear to get a warrant and come back.

GO SEE THEM. If at any time the interview becomes confrontational lawyer up and say nothing else. You have done ok by contacting a lawyer, but you need to find one that you can retain.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU WANT THEM IN OR AT YOUR HOME.

Im283 · July 17, 2007, 10:34 PM

These BATF people are not looking out for your well being, get a lawyer.
If they see a chance they will take you down.

**PvtPyle** · July 17, 2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

The friend said that based on the agent's answers and tone it does not seem that i am under any investigation and that i should speak to them without him being present. He did also say that if at any point the questions go outside the scope of normality and the intended purchase of the guns etc etc, to stop the conversation and call him.

What he did not tell you is that the Agent can lie to you or your lawyer friend if he chooses to. He also did not tell you that the Agent can use anything he finds, see, or hears to open an investigation. And they are already looking at you for something......

I have been down this road before and I can tell you first hand, as will my lawyer if you would like to speak to him, that you can not trust ANY federal law enforcement agent. Do NOT let them in your home. Do NOT discuss ANYTHING out side the basic question he is interested in. Do NOT make small talk with him. He is not your friend and he does not care about you.

hotpig · July 18, 2007, 12:21 AM

This sounds like a standard follow up on a multiple gun purchase. The Agent has more important things to do that to frame you for something.

Answer the questions relating to the purchases and keep it at that. Anything else lawyer up.

That will end their follow up since they do not have the resources to waste time on you unless you are gun running.

July 16, 2007, 07:18 PM	#1
alpha6164 Member Join Date: November 24, 2006 Location: florida Posts: 210	ATF House visit part II: I am sorry that the original thread got shut down. I do appreciate all the inputs, but please lets keep it on topic. UPDATE: I called my ex-FBI friend who is also a criminal attorney. I told him the situation and he said that he certainly believes that its the multiple handguns in a single setting situation. This guy also is very connected in town. His father used to be the sherrif about 25yrs ago and he recently ran for sherrif himself and didn't win (came in 2nd) He asked for the agents name and # and said he wants to give him a call. He called me back in 15min and said that he was on the phone with the agent for a good 7-8min. He did introduce himself not as an attorney, but a friend and his credentials and that he has been my friend for several years. The agent did tell him that it was about the "mulitple handgun purchase and relating matters..." He did not go into what the "relating matters." In a sense, this guy vouched for me that he has known me for several years and that besides my private practice, i am also an assistant professor at a U.F. etc etc. The friend said that based on the agent's answers and tone it does not seem that i am under any investigation and that i should speak to them without him being present. He did also say that if at any point the questions go outside the scope of normality and the intended purchase of the guns etc etc, to stop the conversation and call him. The agent also had told him that they have had low man power and that is why they still have not come by my office to talk to me but they will be talking to me sometimes this week. I appreciate all the inputs so far. I will definitely keep you guys informed as to what happens next. Wish me luck!

July 16, 2007, 07:20 PM	#2
CajunBass Member Join Date: June 2, 2005 Location: Chancellorsville, Virginia Posts: 3,273	Good luck my friend. __________________ For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

July 16, 2007, 07:21 PM	#3
Justin Moderator Join Date: December 29, 2002 Location: Out west where the wind blows tall. Posts: 14,835	Thanks for the update. __________________ Round Count > Post Count Match coverage, gear reviews, and other shooty goodness: Way of the Multigun You should be a member of The Second Amendment Foundation A.R.M.S., Inc: shoddy, overpriced products made by an unscrupulous company. Buy from LaRue instead.

July 16, 2007, 07:32 PM	#5
springmom Member Join Date: December 20, 2005 Location: Spring TX Posts: 3,456	Glad to hear you weren't kidnapped by the Black Helicopters (sorry, couldn't resist...just kidding!) Sounds like you have all your eventualities covered. Good luck with it, but I expect you'll be just fine. Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim! ..."what is not debatable is that it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct."---Justice Antonin Scalia, D.C. et al v. Heller, 2008 I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Don't fire the gun while you're talking!---Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun Visit my webplaces: www.panagia-icons.net (my iconography) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodox blog)

July 17, 2007, 11:07 AM	#13
AndyC Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 2,566	Glad to hear it seems to be going so well - best of luck __________________ "Since concealed carry permits prevent the criminal from knowing who is armed and who is not, those who are not armed benefit from the general deterrent effect as criminals choose non-confrontational crime rather than risk being shot." - Dangerous Women: Feminism, Self Defense and Civil Rights - Robert L. Barrow and Dr. Gary Mauser "Accuracy in combat is inversely proportional to the pucker-factor." My Iraq Pics

July 16, 2007, 07:22 PM	#4
Alphazulu6 member Join Date: June 2, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 810	Good Luck

July 16, 2007, 10:28 PM	#6
Harry Paget Flashman Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: NW Florida Posts: 1,210	Since you are the Doctor, make the agent wait at least 15 minutes past the appointment time.

July 16, 2007, 10:52 PM	#9
blackhawk2000 member Join Date: March 25, 2003 Location: Mi Posts: 851	He's a Doctor who buys multiple guns in one trip to the gun store. I think he can afford a lawyer. Remember you have everything to lose.

July 17, 2007, 11:30 AM	#14
Two Cold Soakers Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Location: West Michigan Posts: 346	Ahhhhh, Now that was good news. Nice work, doctor.

July 17, 2007, 05:39 PM	#15
Mannlicher Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: North Central Florida Posts: 3,428	Doc, I live in Gainesville myself, and I have some long standing connections in the local legal profession. Call me if you need someone to chew the fat with, or to refer you to someone. I find my self in agreement with those that say to not speak to the ATF at all without your attorney present. Things can 'happen'................. and an innocent visit can turn into something all together different in a heartbeat. Sam __________________ no Signature line

July 17, 2007, 06:16 PM	#16
Scorpiusdeus member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Ventura County, California Posts: 741	Forget the advice of your actual Lawyer, go with paranoia, it works for some of the guys here.

July 17, 2007, 06:45 PM	#19
Black Majik Member Join Date: September 13, 2003 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 5,040	"Ah the Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco and firearms. I take it this isn't about the alcohol or tobacco..." Good luck man, I'm interested to hear the outcome. __________________ -Richard

July 17, 2007, 07:00 PM	#20
kungfuhippie Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: PRK Posts: 1,440	Oh don't worry the BATFE is your friend, they keep guns out of the hands of certain people. They make sure you don't have guns that would instantly turn you into a felon. Who knew that just owning certain guns changes your thinking patterns, removes your agency and makes you start robbing banks, killing bystanders, and join Al-Queda. <sarcasm off> Listen to your lawyer, don't foilhat-up like some of us keyboard commandos would suggest. Let us know how it all turns out. __________________ "The true [American] revolution was not to defy one earthly power, but to declare principles that stand above every earthly power—the equality of each person before God, and the responsibility of government to secure the rights of all." -George W. Bush, September 13th 2003

July 17, 2007, 08:11 PM	#22
PvtPyle Moderator Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: Draper UT Posts: 734	Part of the interrogation technique that they are trained to use is to get you in a comfortable setting so you feel more at ease. I have been the subject of several friendly and custodial interrogations and you DO NOT WANT THEM AT YOUR HOUSE. Period. It does not matter what the reason is. YOU DO NOT WANT THEM AT YOUR HOUSE. They can use anything they see or hear to get a warrant and come back. GO SEE THEM. If at any time the interview becomes confrontational lawyer up and say nothing else. You have done ok by contacting a lawyer, but you need to find one that you can retain. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU WANT THEM IN OR AT YOUR HOME. __________________ Lo there do I see my Fathers. Lo there do I see my Mothers and my Sisters and my Brothers. Lo do I see the line of my people, back to the begining. Lo they do call to me. They bid me to take my place among them, in the Halls of Valhalla. Where the brave shall live forever.

July 17, 2007, 10:34 PM	#23
Im283 Member Join Date: March 21, 2007 Location: Knox County, TN. Posts: 1,053	These BATF people are not looking out for your well being, get a lawyer. If they see a chance they will take you down.

July 18, 2007, 12:21 AM	#25
hotpig Member Join Date: August 13, 2005 Location: SW Illinois St Louis metro east Posts: 919	This sounds like a standard follow up on a multiple gun purchase. The Agent has more important things to do that to frame you for something. Answer the questions relating to the purchases and keep it at that. Anything else lawyer up. That will end their follow up since they do not have the resources to waste time on you unless you are gun running. __________________ Powered by Winchester The real reason that we cannot have the Ten Commandments posted in a courthouse is this: You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery," and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians..It creates a hostile work environment.

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