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Old September 11, 2014, 08:30 PM   #1
chiltech500
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WST Users - Best Target Load

Looking for suggestions for WST target loads, not looking for power loads.

Happened upon an 8 lb jug and couldn't resist in these times of shortage.

- 45 acp for revolver and 1911

- 38 sp revolver

- 9mm

Thanks
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Old September 11, 2014, 08:34 PM   #2
huntershooter
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.45 ACP: 4.3.to 4.5 gr. WST, 230 gr. FMJ or lead RN.
9 mm: as above with 124 gr. FMJ/JHP.
No experience with .38 Special and WST.
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Old September 11, 2014, 11:36 PM   #3
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9MM 124/125 Plated 4.3 - 4.5 gr.
38 Spcl 158 gr LSWC/LFN 3.3 - 3.5gr. very soft shooters
45 ACP 185gr LSWC 4.5gr
45 ACP 230gr Plated RN 4.4 gr.
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Old September 12, 2014, 12:04 AM   #4
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As mstreddy has posted I have loaded many 158gr LSWC in 38 special with 3.4gr of WST. They are a little snappier than my AA#2 loads but very accurate and still soft shooting.
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Old September 12, 2014, 12:05 AM   #5
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WST! 8 POUNDS! You will be shooting those loads for YEARS!

I've used it in my .38 spec loads for a long time almost exactly like mstreddy listed. I think you will be glad you picked that powder up.

Mark
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Old September 12, 2014, 07:26 AM   #6
chiltech500
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Thanks so much gents. Looks like there is another thread on WST and someone else must have struck a similar bonanza.

Knowing there are good target loads makes me quite happy. I wasn't 100% sure I was doing the right thing buying it other than believing had read some threads with 45 acp usage.
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Old September 12, 2014, 07:35 AM   #7
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8 pounds will go quick if you like it. I had bought 8#s in June 2013, and split in half with a buddy. I've already used up my 4#s and am trying to convince him to self me his batch.
I've used it mostly in 9 and 38 Spcl. Only a little 45.
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Old September 12, 2014, 07:40 AM   #8
chiltech500
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mstreddy do you have any 38 sp data for 148 wadcutters? I trial loaded 3.4 gr last evening to test today.
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Old September 12, 2014, 10:22 AM   #9
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My best BE target load for the 45acp with MBC 185gr LSWC #2 is 4.1gr of WST. 4.2gr with the 200gr LSWC #1 bullet. This will cycle the slide on my 1911 with the std 16# RS installed.

Just maybe this powder is making it back to the shelf's so I can replenish my stock.
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Old September 12, 2014, 11:20 AM   #10
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I get good results in .38 with a 158 grain plated hollow point and 3.8 grains of WST @ 1.450" OAL. Good luck.
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
mstreddy do you have any 38 sp data for 148 wadcutters? I trial loaded 3.4 gr last evening to test today.
Winchester/Hodgdon does...

Quote:
BULLET WEIGHT
148 GR. HDY LHBWC
Starting Loads Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam.
C.O.L.
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Winchester WST .358" 1.160" 2.5 680 13,000 PSI 2.8 735 16,000 PSI
better format if you actually go to the site

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Looks like 3.4 may be too hot assuming you're using HBWC and not DEWC or BBWC.
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Last edited by 1KPerDay; September 12, 2014 at 02:13 PM.
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:03 PM   #12
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Chill, no, I only loaded the 158s so far with the WST. I have some 148s, but haven't gotten to them yet.
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:15 PM   #13
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Mr 1k, I'm not shooting HBWC, I'm shooting DEWC. The data you copied looks out of line 2.5-2.8 for that type bullet because...

WST is a slower powder than Red Dot and I already shoot 3.0 gr Red Dot, or note mstreddy who uses 3.5 g for 158 LSWC, or notice Bullseye powder is faster than WST and most 38 sp shooters with a DEWC use 2.7 to 3 gr of Bullseye etc.


I've read some folks who say recent published data is on the low side?

Last edited by chiltech500; September 12, 2014 at 02:24 PM. Reason: I goofed up slower vs faster :)
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:19 PM   #14
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Cool. Just wanted to make sure.

I have a bunch of old Speer and Markell BBWC and you can load them muuuuch hotter than the typical soft/long HBWC. People freak out.
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:32 PM   #15
chiltech500
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Quote:
4.2gr with the 200gr LSWC #1 bullet. This will cycle the slide on my 1911 with the std 16# RS installed.
Blue68 thanks for the above, good info.

So far I have found 4.0 gr of N310 or 5.0 gr Green Dot to be accurate. I haven't tried my N320 or WST for 200 gr LSWC yet.

The 8lbs of WST is my largest cache of a single powder. I'm trying to determine which powders to use and which to save. Clarity has not come to me LOL
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Old September 12, 2014, 02:40 PM   #16
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Use them all!!! They'll make more -- oh wait, that ain't right.
I love W231/HP38, but since it was harder to find then others, I tried WST, liked it. Will buy again. I've been using Promo (Red Dot) now and I'm liking it. I better, I picked up 16 pounds of it. I'm hanging on to the W231 as it works great for Subsonic 9MM. Promo is working great in 380, which is another W231 staple for me.
So, use them... just keep searching like crazy as well have.
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Old September 12, 2014, 05:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiltech500 View Post
Mr 1k, I'm not shooting HBWC, I'm shooting DEWC. The data you copied looks out of line 2.5-2.8 for that type bullet because...

WST is a slower powder than Red Dot and I already shoot 3.0 gr Red Dot, or note mstreddy who uses 3.5 g for 158 LSWC, or notice Bullseye powder is faster than WST and most 38 sp shooters with a DEWC use 2.7 to 3 gr of Bullseye etc.


I've read some folks who say recent published data is on the low side?

Mstreddy uses 3.5 with a SWC. Even though it weighs 10 more grains it doesn't seat nearly as far in the case as a DEWC. The charge weights look pretty well online to me.

For example I use 3.5 gr of AA#2 under a 158gr SWC and 2.9-3.0gr under the 148DEWC. The load data is 2.6-2.9gr under a DEWC, almost the same as WST.

Wadcutters loads are very low pressure, usually, as they are used primarily for competition or just punching paper. In most cases the load can be taken over the max listing by a little, how much though is up for debate. You enter into those rough waters on your own.
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Old September 13, 2014, 07:00 AM   #18
chiltech500
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ljnowell, and others

my brain is not working well and I'm confused. I'm wondering where to start with a 148gr DEWC? I think LJ you're telling me to start at 2.6gr WST?

I posted extremely wrong info - it's embarassing. I did not load 3.4 WST into my 38 with 148 DEWC - my mind played tricks. I did load 4.3g WST into a 200gr LSWC 45 ACP round

I have been testing too many options recently like comparing Red Dot and VV N320 in the 38sp, and now thinking about testing WST. I believe Red Dot is faster than WST yet 3.0g of Red Dot is not a higher end load. That's why I'm mondering about the lower WST load. Ik's data was for the 148gr HBWC which I assume is seated deeper than the DEWC so I anticipate a heavier load for the 148 DEWC, yes, no, maybe???

Last edited by chiltech500; September 13, 2014 at 07:09 AM.
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Old September 13, 2014, 07:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiltech500 View Post
ljnowell, and others

my brain is not working well and I'm confused. I'm wondering where to start with a 148gr DEWC? I think LJ you're telling me to start at 2.6gr WST?

I posted extremely wrong info - it's embarassing. I did not load 3.4 WST into my 38 with 148 DEWC - my mind played tricks. I did load 4.3g WST into a 200gr LSWC 45 ACP round

I have been testing too many options recently like comparing Red Dot and VV N320 in the 38sp, and now thinking about testing WST.

As tight as the load range is on a wadcutters with WST(2.5-2.8gr) there are two routes. If you are using a powder measure you may only be able to reliably hit a single charge repeatable in that range. For instance, if you shoot for 2.7 you may get some at 2.6 and some at 2.8. That's perfectly safe and what many people end up doing when charge weights are so small.

Myself I would try for around 2.6 and then at 2.8. My load with AA#2 is actually .1gr over book max but you will find that max charge in load manuals when dealing with wadcutters is usually very safely under max pressure. It should always be kept in mind, however, that with a deep seated bullet and minimal internal case volume pressure can spike quickly, especially so with very fast powders.

If hand weighing them then I would pick two charge weights in that range and start there.
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Old September 13, 2014, 07:13 AM   #20
chiltech500
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BTW my crimp is a loose .379 with a COL of 1.210 - I have a bit of the DEWC showing, that impacts the comparison to the Hodgon/winchester data also. Shorter bullet, longer COAL, less crimp = a bit more powder (?)
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Old September 13, 2014, 07:36 AM   #21
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In reality, it's not something that you could measure. You really don't want more powder in there anyway. You really want just enough powder that you get enough pressure to have good combustion. Typically accuracy in wadcutter loads does not need higher velocity.

I would stay within the load data and see what you end up with as far as accuracy and cleanliness if the load before going any further.

In my case I was using the Lee adjustable charge bar and was shooting for about 2.8gr and landed on. 3.0 and decided to give it a shot. It worked out so I stuck with it.

My 158 grain SWC load is .1gr UNDER starting weight.
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Old September 13, 2014, 09:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
I love W231/HP38, but since it was harder to find then others, I tried WST, liked it. Will buy again. I've been using Promo (Red Dot) now and I'm liking it
Ya know, I cant really think of a powder I don't like.
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Old September 13, 2014, 02:12 PM   #23
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Great advice. I should chrono the loads to see if I'm in the ballpark. My dillon progressive does a pretty good job metering powder, seems consistant, but you're right given bullet and powder variable a +1-1 would be reasonable.

I think I'll start at 2.4 and up by 2's. Check chrono for fps, you expect 680 to 750 fps?
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Old September 14, 2014, 10:34 PM   #24
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Chiltech500- I have burned well over 32lbs of WST in .45acp behind 230gr LRN, and 180gr .40s&w plated bullets over the years. WST meters extremely well in Dillon powder measures. WST seems to be a little cleaner than W231, and it's a little faster than W231. If you load WST behind lead, you will notice it smokes less than W231, and Titegroup. One thing I will mention is WST is reverse temp sensitive meaning it weakens a little when temps rise.
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Old September 17, 2014, 07:32 AM   #25
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Thanks gahunter, that's really interesting about the temp. I have indeed found WST to be very clean and much less smoke than Titegroup. It seems to smoke less than VV N320 I tried as well. (as an aside, I have about 4lbs of Titegroup- have been shooting in 9mm autoloader and you should see the smoke if it's not windy outside! I can barely see the target through the haze)

1K and LJ and others you are right about the range you suggested. I tried 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5g WST and those are good loads in the 38, soft shooting and not very smokey.
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