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Old September 14, 2014, 07:35 PM   #1
z7
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Plz check my load data/plan.

Looking to load bullseye and 180g xtreme rnfp (Plated) for 40s&w

Alliant website states for a 180 speer gdhp 5.5g at 1.12" oal

I plan to drop to 4.9 (89%) and work up by .1 g increments to 5.4g and look for accuracy and function.

Shooting a glock 23, what should I expect with that workup?

Thank
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Old September 14, 2014, 07:56 PM   #2
bds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z7
bullseye and 180g xtreme rnfp (Plated) 4.9 gr ... 5.4g ... Shooting a glock 23, what should I expect with that workup?
Snappy recoil.
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Old September 15, 2014, 08:56 PM   #3
witchhunter
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Snappy recoil indeed. Use plated data not jacketed. If you want to zip em out there use a jacketed bullet.
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Old Yesterday, 01:22 AM   #4
bds
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Disclaimer: Following post lists loads not currently published by powder manufacturer. Use them at your own risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by witchhunter
Use plated data not jacketed.
Well, but there's no published Bullseye plated load data from Alliant for 180 gr 40S&W - http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...1&cartridge=29

Quote:
Originally Posted by z7
bullseye and 180g xtreme rnfp (Plated) for 40s&w

Alliant website states for a 180 speer gdhp 5.5g at 1.12" oal

I plan to drop to 4.9 (89%) and work up by .1 g increments to 5.4g
Although many plated manufacturers advertise their "thicker plated" bullets can be pushed to 1500 fps and therefore jacketed load data can be used, this is what X-Treme posted on their website - http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-...nfo-s/1952.htm
Quote:
Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We do not recommend velocities over 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and only a light taper crimp.

Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We do not recommend velocities over 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and only a light taper crimp.
Even with 180 gr max jacketed load data, you are not going to exceed 1200 fps.


So let's look at some lead load data and see what they are. Lyman #49 lists the following for 175 gr lead bullets:
Quote:
175 gr lead TCFP Bullseye OAL 1.100" Start 4.0 gr (654 fps) 16,900 CUP - Max 5.0 gr (842 fps) 23,100 CUP

175 gr lead RNFP Bullseye OAL 1.125" Start 4.2 gr (665 fps) 17,100 CUP - Max 5.1 gr (812 fps) 22,000 CUP
And 5.0/5.1 gr max charges were obtained from .401" groove diameter test barrel using .401" sized lead bullets and I often find Lyman #49 40S&W loads higher than powder manufacturer load data that used more typical .400" groove diameter test barrels.

If you reference 2004 Alliant load data, you'll see the following - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...7&d=1364769070
Quote:
180 JHP Bullseye OAL 1.125" Max 5.5 gr (1015 fps) 33,900 PSI

180 Laser Cast Bullseye OAL 1.125" Max 4.5 gr (911 fps) 33,000 PSI
So, if you want to use the most conservative lead load data for your plated bullet powder work up using longer than 1.125" OAL, 10% reduction of 4.5 gr would be 4.0 gr. I would test 4.0/4.2/4.4 gr. Since Bullseye downloads well, if 4.0 gr reliably cycles the slide and produce accuracy, I would test 3.8 gr also.

Let us know how things go.

I hope this helped.
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Old Yesterday, 02:19 AM   #5
ArchAngelCD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z7 View Post
Looking to load bullseye and 180g xtreme rnfp (Plated) for 40s&w

Alliant website states for a 180 speer gdhp 5.5g at 1.12" oal

I plan to drop to 4.9 (89%) and work up by .1 g increments to 5.4g and look for accuracy and function.

Shooting a glock 23, what should I expect with that workup?

Thank
Is there a specific reason for wanting to use Bullseye?
I'm not a fan of using super fast powders in a high pressure low capacity case.
If you have a slower powder available I would use it, something like HS-6, Longshot or AA#7.

Yes, I know we are in a very bad powder shortage and if Bullseye is all you have of course that's what you will have to use. Please be very careful with checking your charge weights. Very fast powders like Bullseye will change pressures quickly with small changes in powder weight in small cases like the 40 S&W when up near the pressure limits...
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Old Yesterday, 02:39 AM   #6
bds
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Disclaimer: Following post lists loads not currently published by Alliant or below published start charges. Use them at your own risk.


ArchAngelCD, that's what I used to think when I got very snappy recoil with mid-to-high range Bullseye load data. Then powder shortage hit and I was testing 40S&W with fast burning Red Dot/Promo with 40S&W.

Some fast burning powders can be downloaded below start charges yet maintain accuracy (like many bullseye match loads). This post covers below start charge match loads with Bullseye like 180 gr Laser Cast bullet with 3.0 gr at 1.135" OAL - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...44#post9616844
Quote:
Please be very careful with checking your charge weights. Very fast powders like Bullseye will change pressures quickly with small changes in powder weight in small cases like the 40 S&W when up near the pressure limits...
+1. That's why I suggested the powder charges I posted, since I figured the OP will be using mixed range brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass.

I would also verify neck tension by measuring OAL/COL before and after function test by feeding dummy round (no powder/no primer) from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it. If there's more than several thousandths of bullet setback, there's neck tension issue and deeper seated bullet base will increase chamber pressure.
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Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM   #7
wlkjr
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I'm shooting a G23 also but am using Titegroup at 4.3 grains with an Xtreme 180g HP. Books shows 4.2-4.7 gr of TG but 4.3 doesn't have that snap and makes the 23 more enjoyable to shoot. Factory loads are to me unpleasant.
Bullseye is close to Titegroup so I'd start low and not go past midway.
All my bullets are plated so I always start just below jacketed and work up to midway. I have no interest in loading at max as I buy Hornady or Underwood for my self defense loads.
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Old Yesterday, 12:52 PM   #8
Mad Chemist
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We tend to over complicate the plated bullet data.

Take the published max for a jacketed bullet weighing the same as the chosen plated bullet and average it with the max lead data for the same bullet weight. This is your max. Do no exceed it. Reduce this by 10%. This is your theoretical min. You can work down below the theoretical min, but you must not exceed the max.

(max jacketed charge + max lead charge)/2=max charge do not exceed.
(Max plated charge) x .9 = theoretical min charge
This range of charges will yield standard pressure ammo with normal velocity ranges for the chosen caliber and powder.


So using the Alliant data for jacketed and cast you get:
(5.5gr + 4.5gr)/2=5.0gr (max)
5.0gr x .9 = 4.5 theoretical min
I have used this formula successfully for many thousands of plated bullets in 9x19, .380, and .45acp.


For reduced recoil loads, you may go reasonably below the theoretical min with an autoloading pistol safely. You will almost always have stovepipe malfunctions before you encounter squibs. Faster powders work better than slow powders for reduced loads. Developing a reduced load is simple. I like to determine the minimum working charge by reducing the theoretical min charge by .1-.2 gr and testing 5rd strings. I note accuracy for each and continue to decrease the charge until the pistol begins exhibit stovepipe malfunctions. Once the pistol stovepipes, I increase the charge .1gr and test again. If that load is reliable it becomes the minimum working charge for that pistol/bullet/powder combo. If that load is accurate, I'll save it in my load data.

Check the chamber and barrel after any malfunction that occurs while developing reduced loads. Squibs are rare but they are possible. Be safe.
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Old Yesterday, 09:38 PM   #9
z7
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Thanks to all, I believe I will try to work the 4.0-4.5 range first, if I get reliable function and decent accuracy i will call it good. I have 1lb of bullseye maybe less that my brother gave me when I got my press (a year ago), so I have never had the luxury of picking powders at will. More like find what works
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