Optical sites - glass/crosshairs vs. red dots...

bogie · July 11, 2003, 01:38 PM

Guys, getting ready to scope a flattop AR, and I'm waffling... Looking for an "all round" sort of sight... I've currently got a Laseraim Illusion that used to be on my Dan Wesson, but it's a little flaky - I think it needs to have its contacts cleaned or something - does anyone know someone who works on 'em?

I've looked at other red dots, and it seems to be a tossup between the "open" ones, and sights like the Leupold Gilmore. Or, for that matter, the nice big BSA - do those things hold up worth a darn?

Tacticality is good, reliability is also important. Magnification isn't that big a deal, since I've already go a 4-12 Swift on a B-Square mount for sage rat shooting...

Bottom Gun · July 11, 2003, 01:55 PM

Try an ACOG. They are without a doubt the best sights I've ever used.

Bottom Gun · July 11, 2003, 01:57 PM

Another pic:

bogie · July 11, 2003, 02:03 PM

Oh yeah - that doesn't cost more than $250 or so?

Bottom Gun · July 11, 2003, 02:12 PM

Yes, they're pricey but you didn't mention a price range.

I initially balked at the price too but now that I have it, I'm glad I spent the money. The optics are superb.
It's the old story story of getting what you pay for.

bogie · July 11, 2003, 03:32 PM

Well, I've learned that more money isn't always indicative of better quality... One of the "cheapest" benchrest competition scopes is also considered one of the solidest, whereas the most expensive scopes tend to also be the most problematic, requiring repeat returns to the factory.

45R · July 11, 2003, 03:43 PM

Look into a C-More sight or a Hakko Sight. Both can be found on www.swfa.com

John Ross · July 11, 2003, 03:47 PM

I prefer a 1-4 Leupold set on 1X (actally 1.3) to any red dot sight for rifle use, except where length in a problem like an SKS. Since the 1-4 is not designed for arm's-length pistol use they have a BIGGER field of view at 1.3X than the red dot sight at 1X when used on a rifle. Hold them side by side at rifle-appropriate eye relief and see for yourself.

I prefer Leupold's dot reticle to the dual-X.

You will not believe how fast you can get "on" and hit with 1.3X, and you still have 4X if you need it. I have 1-4 Leupolds on everything except varmint rifles and open-sight-only guns.

The 1.5-5 is more expensive, a little heavier, and Dick Thomas (Premier Reticles) says is a little more prone to breakage because the zoom mechanism is more complicated internally. I cannot tell the difference in optical quality.

JR

P95Carry · July 11, 2003, 03:49 PM

I have pretty much been using standard type scopes on most longarms for years .. most are cross hair, one is crosshair and post (nice that one), oh and a coupla mildots .. those too are very versatile. All are pretty much ''budget'' .... but not ''cheapo''.

I have just started playing with red dots and .. have to say that I like them. mainly I think I will restrict use to carbines ... Win94, SKS etc .... the downside being unless a lot is spent ... is a dot of some 4 MOA ...... at shorter ranges tho this seems little problem and .... the biggest single benefit IMO ..... FAST target aquisition ....... that is well useful!

bogie · July 11, 2003, 04:04 PM

Yeah, JR, that sounds about right... The scope will probably live on the AR most of the time, but will also likely see the Enfield when time comes to go bear huntin' with a friend... Haven't totally figured the chambering for the Enfield (right now it's a .300 Winmag), but I'm leaning toward .458 Winmag, simply because it's there, and I don't wanna have to shoot my buddy in the legs if I just wound one and it decides to chase us...

rebbryan · July 14, 2003, 01:58 AM

i have a BSA red dot on my .22. it works for shooting. as far as taking it into "battle" or roughing it up, i think it'd hold up for a while but i don't think you could beat the crap out of it. it's solid

MolonLabe416 · July 19, 2003, 05:42 PM

Take a look at the Trijicon 1.25x4. Works very well at 1.25x for CQB, 4x is plenty precise for any reasonable use at distance.

Jaywalker · July 23, 2003, 11:26 AM

Late to the party here, but I put an Aimpoint red dot on mine, and it's plenty sturdy. The US Army uses them, among others. The latest versions have an extremely long battery life - purported to be 10,000 hours at half power. They're now a bit over $300, but used versions would be available a little cheaper (but not much - they get bought quickly). Most of my shooting was to be inside 100 yards, so the red dot was my choice. Had my shooting been past 100 yards, I would have chosen a scope.

You'll also need to consider mounting issues. I put a Rock River "handle" on my Bushmaster A3, and it allows me to use the aperature sights through the red dot for when the power switch is off. It works well. I think I paid $110 for it and another $30 for the rings. I'll be selling it soon, and don't expect to have any trouble moving it.

I understand that's above your $250 budget, but I didn't understand whether the $250 included mount and rings.

Jaywalker

Texas Gunman · July 23, 2003, 03:30 PM

I have always been a iron sight or scope person, than I purchased a BSA red dot sight, just to see if I liked red dot sights.
Im hooked on them now days, so I went ahead and purchased a Millet Red Dot sight, their awsome, down side, batterie only last 40hrs of constant use, but they dont cost much and easy to replace, so I keep extra batteries on me.

http://www.gunaccessories.com/Millet/RedDot/index.asp

TG

P95Carry · July 23, 2003, 05:42 PM

Hey TG ... (HB here!) ........ what sidemount is that you have on there?? I'm somewhat of a burgeoning red dot fan myself .... the one on my Norinco is great for real fast target aquisition.

G&R Tactical · July 24, 2003, 02:30 PM

Hey Bogie, take a look at the EOTech 502.A65 or the 511.A65. The 502.A65 is well under your price range and the 511 is just a little over it. There is no faster dot optic made, their water proof to 33ft, can survive a drop of 10ft or more, fog proof, come with an integrated mount and are made in the U.S.! I am an authorized EOTech dealer so please e-mail me with any questions...

Thanks,

Grant

gandrtactical@att.net

July 11, 2003, 01:38 PM	#1
bogie Member Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state Posts: 9,560	Optical sites - glass/crosshairs vs. red dots... Guys, getting ready to scope a flattop AR, and I'm waffling... Looking for an "all round" sort of sight... I've currently got a Laseraim Illusion that used to be on my Dan Wesson, but it's a little flaky - I think it needs to have its contacts cleaned or something - does anyone know someone who works on 'em? I've looked at other red dots, and it seems to be a tossup between the "open" ones, and sights like the Leupold Gilmore. Or, for that matter, the nice big BSA - do those things hold up worth a darn? Tacticality is good, reliability is also important. Magnification isn't that big a deal, since I've already go a 4-12 Swift on a B-Square mount for sage rat shooting... __________________ ============ Resume is available upon request

July 11, 2003, 01:55 PM	#2
Bottom Gun Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 737	Try an ACOG. They are without a doubt the best sights I've ever used. Last edited by Bottom Gun; October 16, 2006 at 02:19 PM.

July 11, 2003, 02:03 PM	#4
bogie Member Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state Posts: 9,560	Oh yeah - that doesn't cost more than $250 or so? __________________ ============ Resume is available upon request

July 11, 2003, 03:32 PM	#6
bogie Member Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state Posts: 9,560	Well, I've learned that more money isn't always indicative of better quality... One of the "cheapest" benchrest competition scopes is also considered one of the solidest, whereas the most expensive scopes tend to also be the most problematic, requiring repeat returns to the factory. __________________ ============ Resume is available upon request

July 11, 2003, 03:49 PM	#9
P95Carry Moderator Emeritus Join Date: January 3, 2003 Location: South PA, and a bit West of center! Posts: 16,333	I have pretty much been using standard type scopes on most longarms for years .. most are cross hair, one is crosshair and post (nice that one), oh and a coupla mildots .. those too are very versatile. All are pretty much ''budget'' .... but not ''cheapo''. I have just started playing with red dots and .. have to say that I like them. mainly I think I will restrict use to carbines ... Win94, SKS etc .... the downside being unless a lot is spent ... is a dot of some 4 MOA ...... at shorter ranges tho this seems little problem and .... the biggest single benefit IMO ..... FAST target aquisition ....... that is well useful! __________________ Chris - P95 Guns don't kill people - people kill people. NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. Rohrbaugh interest/ownership? - Rohrbaugh Forum Rohrbaugh R9 FAQ Site ______________________________

July 11, 2003, 02:12 PM	#5
Bottom Gun Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 737	Yes, they're pricey but you didn't mention a price range. I initially balked at the price too but now that I have it, I'm glad I spent the money. The optics are superb. It's the old story story of getting what you pay for.

July 11, 2003, 03:43 PM	#7
45R Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: No Place Like Home Posts: 3,693	Look into a C-More sight or a Hakko Sight. Both can be found on www.swfa.com

July 11, 2003, 03:47 PM	#8
John Ross Member Join Date: June 19, 2003 Location: St. Louis Posts: 483	I prefer a 1-4 Leupold set on 1X (actally 1.3) to any red dot sight for rifle use, except where length in a problem like an SKS. Since the 1-4 is not designed for arm's-length pistol use they have a BIGGER field of view at 1.3X than the red dot sight at 1X when used on a rifle. Hold them side by side at rifle-appropriate eye relief and see for yourself. I prefer Leupold's dot reticle to the dual-X. You will not believe how fast you can get "on" and hit with 1.3X, and you still have 4X if you need it. I have 1-4 Leupolds on everything except varmint rifles and open-sight-only guns. The 1.5-5 is more expensive, a little heavier, and Dick Thomas (Premier Reticles) says is a little more prone to breakage because the zoom mechanism is more complicated internally. I cannot tell the difference in optical quality. JR

July 11, 2003, 04:04 PM	#10
bogie Member Join Date: January 2, 2003 Location: St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state Posts: 9,560	Yeah, JR, that sounds about right... The scope will probably live on the AR most of the time, but will also likely see the Enfield when time comes to go bear huntin' with a friend... Haven't totally figured the chambering for the Enfield (right now it's a .300 Winmag), but I'm leaning toward .458 Winmag, simply because it's there, and I don't wanna have to shoot my buddy in the legs if I just wound one and it decides to chase us... __________________ ============ Resume is available upon request

July 14, 2003, 01:58 AM	#11
rebbryan Member Join Date: February 24, 2003 Location: Spartanburg, South Kakalaki Posts: 266	i have a BSA red dot on my .22. it works for shooting. as far as taking it into "battle" or roughing it up, i think it'd hold up for a while but i don't think you could beat the crap out of it. it's solid __________________ If guns cause violence, pencils cause mispelled words "Democrats are for beer and girls. Republicans are for cold beer and hot girls." - SC Attorney General "Fobus holsters have been responsible for more wedgies than any other cause." - Arub Bumbling old geezer: "oh, yeah. Wait robber until I call the police"

July 19, 2003, 05:42 PM	#12
MolonLabe416 Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Bellingham WA Posts: 252	Take a look at the Trijicon 1.25x4. Works very well at 1.25x for CQB, 4x is plenty precise for any reasonable use at distance. __________________ Semper Paratus, Steve

July 23, 2003, 11:26 AM	#13
Jaywalker Member Join Date: May 28, 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 682	Late to the party here, but I put an Aimpoint red dot on mine, and it's plenty sturdy. The US Army uses them, among others. The latest versions have an extremely long battery life - purported to be 10,000 hours at half power. They're now a bit over $300, but used versions would be available a little cheaper (but not much - they get bought quickly). Most of my shooting was to be inside 100 yards, so the red dot was my choice. Had my shooting been past 100 yards, I would have chosen a scope. You'll also need to consider mounting issues. I put a Rock River "handle" on my Bushmaster A3, and it allows me to use the aperature sights through the red dot for when the power switch is off. It works well. I think I paid $110 for it and another $30 for the rings. I'll be selling it soon, and don't expect to have any trouble moving it. I understand that's above your $250 budget, but I didn't understand whether the $250 included mount and rings. Jaywalker

July 23, 2003, 03:30 PM	#14
Texas Gunman Member Join Date: December 28, 2002 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 242	I have always been a iron sight or scope person, than I purchased a BSA red dot sight, just to see if I liked red dot sights. Im hooked on them now days, so I went ahead and purchased a Millet Red Dot sight, their awsome, down side, batterie only last 40hrs of constant use, but they dont cost much and easy to replace, so I keep extra batteries on me. http://www.gunaccessories.com/Millet/RedDot/index.asp TG __________________ THE MINUTE MENS OATH Our new addy: http://www.texasminutemen.org/ "We will to the utmost of our power and abilities,defend all and every one of our charter rights, liberties and priviledges; and will hold ourselves in readiness at a minutes warning, with arms and ammunition thus to do." -Bancrofts History.

July 23, 2003, 05:42 PM	#15
P95Carry Moderator Emeritus Join Date: January 3, 2003 Location: South PA, and a bit West of center! Posts: 16,333	Hey TG ... (HB here!) ........ what sidemount is that you have on there?? I'm somewhat of a burgeoning red dot fan myself .... the one on my Norinco is great for real fast target aquisition. __________________ Chris - P95 Guns don't kill people - people kill people. NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. Rohrbaugh interest/ownership? - Rohrbaugh Forum Rohrbaugh R9 FAQ Site ______________________________

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