Glock vs. 1911 1000 Round Match in OK 10/20/2007

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2007, 10:00 AM

Today is the 4th Glock vs. 1911 Match held outside OK City. Rules are that any malfunction happens to your gun and you are out. No maintenance is allowed at any time. The idea is to go 1000 rounds. The match starts in an hour. I will post updates on platform performance during the day.

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2007, 11:07 AM

16 Shooters but don't have the breakdown yet on platforms.

Glock 17 shot 3, broken mag catch/spring
Colt Commander .45 fail to saet mag after reload
Kimber fullsize, bad mag
Glock 17 fail to feed, gun not zero'd
Glock 21 fail to feed, shot 3
Glock 23 w/9mm barrel shot 9 stove pipe
Wilson CQB 3rd stage fail to lock back on empty

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2007, 03:59 PM

Midday, down to one 1911 and 4 Glocks.

blackhawk2000 · October 20, 2007, 04:25 PM

Whos crappy Glocks are you guys using there?

Geno · October 20, 2007, 05:30 PM

Double Naught Spy lied:

Quote:

Kimber fullsize, bad mag

Liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guy probably limp-wristed it.

Do they allow adding oil every 150 or so rounds or just run through 1,000 rounds of abuse?

Doc2005

fineredmist · October 20, 2007, 05:33 PM

Blackhawk,
It must be something in the water out there, here in Ct the only time a Glock fails to fire is when it has a dud round in the chamber.

strat81 · October 20, 2007, 05:39 PM

Is this with ball or JHP ammo? Or is it at the shooter's discretion?

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2007, 06:27 PM

Okay, match is over. Came down to a G17 and a Colt Commander. Both went the full distnace and then some. The winner was the G17 because of a better time..

Doc, NO maintenance of any kind is allowed.

We started with 9 Gocks and 7 1911s.

chieftain · October 20, 2007, 06:46 PM

Very good.

Could we get a list of what failure/FTF caused each weapon to be dropped? Hopefully with round count or approximate round count etc. and ammunition used. Thank you.

I own both. In fact right now I am campaigning in the Steel Challenge with a Glock 34. IDPA I still shoot my 1911's. Bowling Pins, 1911. Most other misc training and match's I shoot 1911. I maintain both weapons equally. Cleaned and inspected after every time it is used, and any faulty parts are immediately replaced or in some rare cases repaired.

My 1911's (9 of them) don't FTF any more than any of my Glocks. At this time I only have 3. Have owned many about 15 others, but now only 3, I still own every 1911 I have ever owned. I also have MOST of the SIG'S I have ever owned. Not so with my revolvers. That was a mistake.

So the end results. You began with more Glocks than 1911's, and in the end one of each was reliable, and on score, which is more an example of the shooter the Glock won.

Ok I can live with that. Sort of blows the Glock koolaide all to hell, doesn't it. Note no 45cal Glock survived.

Real life. So few can accept it.

Go figure.

And a big thank you, for letting us know about this.

Fred

Geno · October 20, 2007, 06:49 PM

Thanks so much for sharing this. Great info to have. I did a 3,000 round test on my Colt Series 70 reissue and my Glock 17. Neither failed in any manner, but I did add oil every 150 rounds or so.

This will be an awesome thread for discussion. I'm excited to see it develop.

Doc2005

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2007, 07:21 PM

I am doing updates from a blackberry in the field. I did not run the match. HOWEVER, the head guy will ge me the results in a day or two. We are all pretty beat.

Black Majik · October 20, 2007, 08:15 PM

Very cool thread. Didn't this competition start on Glocktalk? I remember seeing a similar match like this IIRC.

Nonetheless, glad to hear a 1911 pulled through.

Interesting results also!

**taliv** · October 20, 2007, 08:40 PM

"fail to seat mag after reload" sounds like operator error, not a malfunction

also, if this was the FOURTH match, then what were the results of the first three?

RyanM · October 20, 2007, 08:45 PM

Any or all of those jams could be operator error. I know my G23, when limp-wristed, will fail to feed rather than stovepipe. The round nosedives into the base of the feedramp (or even the front of the magazine, in extreme cases). The fact that there were so many failures, in both platforms, probably indicates that the shooters were messing up under stress.

CleverNickname · October 20, 2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

"fail to seat mag after reload" sounds like operator error, not a malfunction

So can "fail to lock back on empty". Occasionally I accidentally hold down the slide lock on my Glock with my thumb.

blackhawk2000 · October 20, 2007, 09:08 PM

The only time my G23 has had problems not related to a weak mag spring, was when I took it apart and put sand in it. And then I only had about 3 in the next 300 rds I shot.

455SD · October 20, 2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

"fail to seat mag after reload" sounds like operator error, not a malfunction

also, if this was the FOURTH match, then what were the results of the first three?

It was operator error. I am the one that did it.

However, big boy rules apply If you pull trigger and your gun does not fire then you are out, operator error or not.

**taliv** · October 20, 2007, 11:08 PM

bummer, man. better luck in the 5th match!

i guess I can understand the purpose of the rules, but it means the endurance results only speak to operator+gun, not gun alone.

Geno · October 20, 2007, 11:29 PM

Oh, I can't resist it anymore:

Double Naught Spy said:

Quote:

Okay, match is over. Came down to a G17 and a Colt Government. Both went the full distnace and then some.

'nough said.

Snicker, snicker, snicker. I know, I know. Someone with the word "Glock" in their nick will be a long soon enough to counter the joke. The difference, they'll be blindly serious.

JohnKSa · October 20, 2007, 11:50 PM

Seems like it would be more fair if there were an equal number of Glocks vs 1911s. Otherwise there's an advantage to the gun type that has the most entrants since that type of gun can have more overall malfunctions and still have an entrant left in the running.

It also seems that it would be more fair if there were caliber restrictions as well. Like for every 9mm Glock entered there should be a 9mm 1911 entered.

woodstock72000@yahoo.com · October 21, 2007, 12:09 AM

Isn`t it funny how quickly excuses are given from people that own the models that were indicated to fail without being there? I just bought a Glock 22, .40 and the reason that I bought it is because it`s utilized by more police departments and government officials than any other. Tried and trued.

I am very happy with it. The first thing that I did was have the gunsmith at the shop that I bought it from replace the 6 pound trigger with a 3 pounder. The next thing that I did was take it to my uncles land and waiste about $70.00 in ammo. I loaded all 3 magazines and fired as fast as I could as he reloaded the expended magazines. I went through 300 rounds in just a few minutes without 1 single problem. I am, however, curious as to the accuracy. I used 180 grain Remington JHP`s I know that these could be considered as a bit much but they were on sale. Tried and trued, that`s why I bought it.

455SD · October 21, 2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Oh, I can't resist it anymore:

Double Naught Spy said:

Quote:
Okay, match is over. Came down to a G17 and a Colt Commander. Both went the full distnace and then some.
'nough said.

Snicker, snicker, snicker. I know, I know. Someone with the word "Glock" in their nick will be a long soon enough to counter the joke. The difference, they'll be blindly serious.

Actually it was a COLT Government stainless that won. I had the only Commander.

**taliv** · October 21, 2007, 12:26 AM

johnksa, you really think one caliber is inherently more reliable than another?

TimB92020 · October 21, 2007, 12:36 AM

Hi everyone, First post here...

I'm the guy who had the 1911 that made it to the end of the 1000 round shoot today.

Sorry for the confusion but to clarify, the pistol is a carbon steel Colt 1991A1 Government Model. It has been modified with the addition of a Commander hammer, beavertail grip safety, ambidextrous thumb safety, Ed Brown barrel and bushing, Heinie sights, and a hard chrome finish. I was running CMC Powermags and Federal American Eagle 230 grain ball.

I'd also like to say...to me it did not matter if there were more Glocks than 1911's or vice-versa, or more 9mm's than .45's, or shooter induced malfunctions, or whatever other concern some nay-sayer may come up with. I shot the match to have a lot of fun with a lot of great people. I had a GREAT time and plan to attend next year!

-Tim

woodstock72000@yahoo.com · October 21, 2007, 12:55 AM

You couldn`t have made a better comment. Sounds like you`re agreat guy. With a comment like that, to me you are a great guy.

October 20, 2007, 10:00 AM	#1
Double Naught Spy Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Forestburg, Texas Posts: 5,761	Glock vs. 1911 1000 Round Match in OK 10/20/2007 Today is the 4th Glock vs. 1911 Match held outside OK City. Rules are that any malfunction happens to your gun and you are out. No maintenance is allowed at any time. The idea is to go 1000 rounds. The match starts in an hour. I will post updates on platform performance during the day. Last edited by Double Naught Spy; October 20, 2007 at 10:38 AM.

October 20, 2007, 11:07 AM	#2
Double Naught Spy Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Forestburg, Texas Posts: 5,761	16 Shooters but don't have the breakdown yet on platforms. Glock 17 shot 3, broken mag catch/spring Colt Commander .45 fail to saet mag after reload Kimber fullsize, bad mag Glock 17 fail to feed, gun not zero'd Glock 21 fail to feed, shot 3 Glock 23 w/9mm barrel shot 9 stove pipe Wilson CQB 3rd stage fail to lock back on empty Last edited by Double Naught Spy; October 21, 2007 at 07:12 PM.

October 20, 2007, 05:39 PM	#7
strat81 Member Join Date: October 6, 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,917	Is this with ball or JHP ammo? Or is it at the shooter's discretion? __________________ If a man is a liar and says he is, is he? Join the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association today! www.nefirearm.com

October 20, 2007, 06:46 PM	#9
chieftain Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: The Free State of Arizona Posts: 845	Very good. Could we get a list of what failure/FTF caused each weapon to be dropped? Hopefully with round count or approximate round count etc. and ammunition used. Thank you. I own both. In fact right now I am campaigning in the Steel Challenge with a Glock 34. IDPA I still shoot my 1911's. Bowling Pins, 1911. Most other misc training and match's I shoot 1911. I maintain both weapons equally. Cleaned and inspected after every time it is used, and any faulty parts are immediately replaced or in some rare cases repaired. My 1911's (9 of them) don't FTF any more than any of my Glocks. At this time I only have 3. Have owned many about 15 others, but now only 3, I still own every 1911 I have ever owned. I also have MOST of the SIG'S I have ever owned. Not so with my revolvers. That was a mistake. So the end results. You began with more Glocks than 1911's, and in the end one of each was reliable, and on score, which is more an example of the shooter the Glock won. Ok I can live with that. Sort of blows the Glock koolaide all to hell, doesn't it. Note no 45cal Glock survived. Real life. So few can accept it. Go figure. And a big thank you, for letting us know about this. Fred __________________ Semper Fi --- Stupid should hurt “…an imperfect plan implemented immediately and violently will always succeed better than a perfect plan.” -- Gen George S. Patton

October 20, 2007, 06:49 PM	#10
Geno Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Posts: 8,440	Thanks so much for sharing this. Great info to have. I did a 3,000 round test on my Colt Series 70 reissue and my Glock 17. Neither failed in any manner, but I did add oil every 150 rounds or so. This will be an awesome thread for discussion. I'm excited to see it develop. Doc2005 __________________ "A Shootist’s Prayer" Guns are good; Guns are great; Please Lord help those who us hate. Give us this day our daily lead, and hunting land we’ll call a spread. If I should die here on this day, I pray for guns in Heaven with which to play. Amen, Doc2005 02-Nov-2006

October 20, 2007, 03:59 PM	#3
Double Naught Spy Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Forestburg, Texas Posts: 5,761	Midday, down to one 1911 and 4 Glocks.

October 20, 2007, 04:25 PM	#4
blackhawk2000 member Join Date: March 25, 2003 Location: Mi Posts: 851	Whos crappy Glocks are you guys using there?

October 20, 2007, 05:33 PM	#6
fineredmist Member Join Date: May 3, 2006 Location: Wethersfield, Ct. Posts: 423	Blackhawk, It must be something in the water out there, here in Ct the only time a Glock fails to fire is when it has a dud round in the chamber.

October 20, 2007, 06:27 PM	#8
Double Naught Spy Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Forestburg, Texas Posts: 5,761	Okay, match is over. Came down to a G17 and a Colt Commander. Both went the full distnace and then some. The winner was the G17 because of a better time.. Doc, NO maintenance of any kind is allowed. We started with 9 Gocks and 7 1911s.

October 20, 2007, 07:21 PM	#11
Double Naught Spy Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Forestburg, Texas Posts: 5,761	I am doing updates from a blackberry in the field. I did not run the match. HOWEVER, the head guy will ge me the results in a day or two. We are all pretty beat.

October 20, 2007, 08:15 PM	#12
Black Majik Member Join Date: September 13, 2003 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 5,020	Very cool thread. Didn't this competition start on Glocktalk? I remember seeing a similar match like this IIRC. Nonetheless, glad to hear a 1911 pulled through. Interesting results also! __________________ -Richard

October 20, 2007, 08:40 PM	#13
taliv Moderator Join Date: October 23, 2004 Posts: 8,155	"fail to seat mag after reload" sounds like operator error, not a malfunction also, if this was the FOURTH match, then what were the results of the first three?

October 20, 2007, 08:45 PM	#14
RyanM Member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 3,873	Any or all of those jams could be operator error. I know my G23, when limp-wristed, will fail to feed rather than stovepipe. The round nosedives into the base of the feedramp (or even the front of the magazine, in extreme cases). The fact that there were so many failures, in both platforms, probably indicates that the shooters were messing up under stress. __________________ He hit the ground, the sound was splat, his blood went spurting high His comrades they were heard to say "a helluva way to die" He lay there rolling round in the welter of his gore And he ain't gonna jump no more

October 20, 2007, 09:08 PM	#16
blackhawk2000 member Join Date: March 25, 2003 Location: Mi Posts: 851	The only time my G23 has had problems not related to a weak mag spring, was when I took it apart and put sand in it. And then I only had about 3 in the next 300 rds I shot.

October 20, 2007, 11:08 PM	#18
taliv Moderator Join Date: October 23, 2004 Posts: 8,155	bummer, man. better luck in the 5th match! i guess I can understand the purpose of the rules, but it means the endurance results only speak to operator+gun, not gun alone.

October 20, 2007, 11:50 PM	#20
JohnKSa Member Join Date: January 1, 2003 Location: DFW Area Posts: 7,863	Seems like it would be more fair if there were an equal number of Glocks vs 1911s. Otherwise there's an advantage to the gun type that has the most entrants since that type of gun can have more overall malfunctions and still have an entrant left in the running. It also seems that it would be more fair if there were caliber restrictions as well. Like for every 9mm Glock entered there should be a 9mm 1911 entered. __________________ Did you know there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association? Check out Black Bear Flashlights. Gun Shows This Weekend.

October 21, 2007, 12:09 AM	#21
woodstock72000@yahoo.com member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 182	operator or gun Isn`t it funny how quickly excuses are given from people that own the models that were indicated to fail without being there? I just bought a Glock 22, .40 and the reason that I bought it is because it`s utilized by more police departments and government officials than any other. Tried and trued. I am very happy with it. The first thing that I did was have the gunsmith at the shop that I bought it from replace the 6 pound trigger with a 3 pounder. The next thing that I did was take it to my uncles land and waiste about $70.00 in ammo. I loaded all 3 magazines and fired as fast as I could as he reloaded the expended magazines. I went through 300 rounds in just a few minutes without 1 single problem. I am, however, curious as to the accuracy. I used 180 grain Remington JHP`s I know that these could be considered as a bit much but they were on sale. Tried and trued, that`s why I bought it.

October 21, 2007, 12:26 AM	#23
taliv Moderator Join Date: October 23, 2004 Posts: 8,155	johnksa, you really think one caliber is inherently more reliable than another?

October 21, 2007, 12:36 AM	#24
TimB92020 Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: CA Posts: 5	Hi everyone, First post here... I'm the guy who had the 1911 that made it to the end of the 1000 round shoot today. Sorry for the confusion but to clarify, the pistol is a carbon steel Colt 1991A1 Government Model. It has been modified with the addition of a Commander hammer, beavertail grip safety, ambidextrous thumb safety, Ed Brown barrel and bushing, Heinie sights, and a hard chrome finish. I was running CMC Powermags and Federal American Eagle 230 grain ball. I'd also like to say...to me it did not matter if there were more Glocks than 1911's or vice-versa, or more 9mm's than .45's, or shooter induced malfunctions, or whatever other concern some nay-sayer may come up with. I shot the match to have a lot of fun with a lot of great people. I had a GREAT time and plan to attend next year! -Tim Last edited by TimB92020; October 21, 2007 at 12:37 AM. Reason: My spelling sux :-)

October 21, 2007, 12:55 AM	#25
woodstock72000@yahoo.com member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 182	Tim You couldn`t have made a better comment. Sounds like you`re agreat guy. With a comment like that, to me you are a great guy.

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