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Old January 6, 2008, 07:01 PM   #1
Constantine-p89
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7.62.25 VS 9mm Luger

Which is a better defence round?
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Old January 6, 2008, 07:31 PM   #2
Keeterbird
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My question is what is the situation is the defense needed? 7.62x25 is a military round. It has great penetration. In such a situation it would be a very good defense round. However, in a city like we have here in the USA. I would certainly go with the 9mm. It would be a problem if one shot an assailant and three other people behind him fell dead also.
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Old January 6, 2008, 07:37 PM   #3
Constantine-p89
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Ok, I have heard that once already so the 9mm is probably the best choice.
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Old January 6, 2008, 09:01 PM   #4
fastbike
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Giving up so soon?

You get one reply and you're done?

Did you even think it made sense? The 9mm is also a military round, as is the 45acp.

How about a practical thought? 7.62X25 is pretty hard to find and not chambered in many handgun choices. What makes you ask?
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Old January 6, 2008, 09:19 PM   #5
Dave Baird
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Out of the two, I would choose the 9mm. But, neither are the best defensive round in my opinion. Most self-defense shootings occur quick and in a short distance. Because of that, the self-defender wants what would be a quick dropper, a slow and heavy caliber to have the best chance to drop/stop the approaching assailant in as little hits as necessary. I would go with a .45 JHP, but that's me. Everyone has a different opinion, I guess.

If I were in an open military situation, I would definately go with the Tok due to the tremendous velocity and penetration capabilities of that round. Targets in this scenario would probably be further away and may be behind cover or moving away, possibly in a vehicle. The Tok would be able to reach out and touch someone. Hopefully, I won't need either!!
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Old January 6, 2008, 09:21 PM   #6
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I want to buy either a Cz52 or a Star BM or a Star Super.
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Old January 6, 2008, 10:42 PM   #7
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I want to buy either a Cz52 or a Star BM or a Star Super.

In that case, my opinion is get the Star. More comfortable grips.

You will find a wider array of proven, non-military (FMJ), self defense ammunition in 9mm in the US than 7.62x25.

jm
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Old January 6, 2008, 11:15 PM   #8
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9MM Hands down for the simple fact that there a quadzillion guns chambered for it vice 2 for the Tokarev, and there are a quadzillion different loads made for it vice the 2 for the Tokarev (Wolf Gold JHP, and FMJ of various manufacture is it for this round).

Don't get me wrong, I am a BIG fan of the Tokarev round, but until someone makes a double stack high-capacity pistol for it, with some decent defensive loads, I am sticking to 9MM.
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Old January 6, 2008, 11:18 PM   #9
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357 Mag has the highest 1 shot stop of all ammo rated. So it doesn't necessarily have to be slow and heavy, not trying to rain on anyones parade as I carry the 357mag, 380, 9mm, and 45ACP. I even carried a 22mag Black Widow for a while, but it only had 5 shots and reloads where timed with an hour glass. But everyone is right about 9mm being readily available, that's one of the reason I carry one most of the time.
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Old January 6, 2008, 11:23 PM   #10
Constantine-p89
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The Star Super is 9mmLargo, the Star BM is 9mmLuger. So would you say buy the somewhat stronger 9mm Largo Star Super or the 9mm Luger Star BM?
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:51 AM   #11
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I have a Norinco Model 213. That is a Chinese version of the Russian TT-33 chambered in 9mm Luger. I have converted it to shoot 9mm Largo as well as 9x23 Winchester. Get a Romanian Tokarev, AIM is selling them for $209. It shoots 7.62x25. Just with a barrel change and new mags, you can have a gun that shoots 9mm Luger. Ream out the 9mm barrel (I did this with a $36 aftermarket barrel) to 9x23, and you have a pistol that will shoot 9x23 Largo and 9x23 Winchester.

Constantine, I did just buy the 9x23 Largo Star Model Super A. I think it is a much better deal. I can download the 9x23 Largo to 9x19 performance, or I can use 9x23 Winchester and get .357 Magnum performance in the same handgun.
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Old February 25, 2008, 04:38 AM   #12
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Depends on your situation. I live in the wide-open spaces of the West. I'm just as likely to take a 100-yard shot as a 5-yarder. For those shots beyond 50 yards you'll prefer the 7.62. I carry one in the truck in lieu of a rifle.

My shots range from 4 feet on a rattler to 200 yards on a coyote. Your 9 is worthless at 200 yards, but the 7.62 is scary at 4 feet.

Depends on your needs...

Must be why I always have three guns in the truck...
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Old February 25, 2008, 06:48 AM   #13
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9m.m. is the way to go

I would go with the 9m.m.

You get a much wider choice of ammo. You can save money by using white box ball ammo from Walmar for practice and using the good stuff for defense.

You also have an enormous choice of pistols and even revolvers to choose from with the 9m.m. Excellent guns like the BERETTA 92, GLOCK 19, SIG 226, SPRINGFIELD XD9 and WALTHER P-99 as well many others are available in 9m.m. You will find very few choices in 7.62x25.

Of the 3 guns you listed, I would not recommend any of them for defense. As a plinker, any will do. I would prefer one of the above mentioned or even a good revolver.

Jim
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Old February 25, 2008, 06:56 AM   #14
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Just a thought:
Wolf does make hollowpoints 7.62X25. They will slow up more in a body than FMJ. My CZ 52 shoots 'em fine but TT-33s out there are supposedly cranky with HP ammo. How close are your neighbors? Personally, I love .30 Tokarev. But, practically, 9MM is better in tightly populated areas. How about a 9MM for people and a CZ 52 (7.62X25) for any crazy '51 Buicks that need to be put down?
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Old February 25, 2008, 08:19 AM   #15
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I think the tokarev would overpenetrate more than the 9mm. I could be wrong but it's faster and skinier. The 9mm is more common around here though and probably a better choice for defense.
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Old February 25, 2008, 09:07 AM   #16
Jim Watson
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I would get the Star BM 9mm P because I believe hollowpoints are worth having for self defense and there are few available in 7.62 and none in 9mm Largo that I know of. If you got stuck with a BM that would not handle JHPs, you could try Corbon PowRBall or Federal EFMJ. At worst you could do what I did when my only pistol was a USGI .45... a hollowpoint in the chamber and hardball in the magazine.

Also I don't find the CZ or Tok as fast a gun to handle as a Star.
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Old March 26, 2008, 07:43 PM   #17
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In southern Ontario at least 7.62x25 is abundant. Magsafe makes some awesome rounds in this caliber. I see them as being far superior to the 9mm which, if I am not mistaken, was originally designed for partridge hunting.
I'll stay with the hot, hot, hot,7.62x25 ammo. With a different bullet it can be whatever you want it to be.
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Old March 27, 2008, 03:22 AM   #18
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The original magnum pistol cartridge 7.62x25. If the BG is wearing body armor I'd pick that.
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Old March 27, 2008, 03:57 AM   #19
Steve C
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The 7.62x25 Tokorev is an impressive round driving a bullet of around 90 grains at approximately 1,450 fps velocity and with the right bullet would probably be an excellent defense round. The problem is that other than military surplus and other full metal jacketed rounds there's no "right bullet" commercially available. A handloader could potentially load up something fairly effective with 32 cal Hornady 85gr XTP JHP's designed for the .32 H&R Mag. Pushed at 1,400 fps or more they should be very effective.

For real world ownership by a non reloader and for defense use where existing handloading components may not yield reliable ammunition or present other legal ramifications, the 9mm is a much better choice. As others have pointed out, ammunition is readily available for both practice and self defense loadings.
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Old March 27, 2008, 11:14 AM   #20
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wonder if high point would consider a 7.62x25?
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Old March 27, 2008, 12:28 PM   #21
rcmodel
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Quote:
I want to buy either a Cz52 or a Star BM or a Star Super.
All three guns are obsolete, and long out of production.
Star went under several years ago, and CZ doesn't even pretend to support the CZ-52.

Why not get a modern gun you can still get parts for if you ever need them?

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Old March 27, 2008, 01:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
and CZ doesn't even pretend to support the CZ-52.
Why would they? They didn't make it (even when all factories were state controlled). Different factory IIRC.

I wouldn't say that 7.62x25 has any ballistic advantages based on a quick glance at the numbers.
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Old March 27, 2008, 01:57 PM   #23
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*sigh*

The legend continues to grow about the great 7.62x25.

FACT: There are currently no handguns manufactured or imported into the US in that caliber. Everything available is either used or surplus TT clones or the CZ52. The standard rounds available, almost exclusively FMJ and surplus, are unsuitable for defensive situations MOST of us would be faced with. The only recent ballistics testing I've seen in expanding 7.62x25 shows it didn't perform noticeably better than any number of 9mm choices.

7.62x25 is a GREAT subgun round, better IMO than 9mm. But as a defensive handgun round, the de facto answer is that it's sorely lacking compared to modern choices in modern handguns. I don't know if it's been tried, but I suspect that 7.62x25 expanding ammunition will NOT penetrate body armor that FMJ will.

You might say, well I can hotrod my 7.62x25 in my nifty CZ52 and outrun your 9mm all day long! To which I say, I can hotrod .38 Special to be a more effective, PROVEN individual handgun self defense round, and have many times more choices new and old to launch it from.

jm
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Old March 27, 2008, 02:12 PM   #24
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To each his own. My preference is the 7.62x25 round. It wasn't adopted first by the Germans (in the Mauser configuration) and their allies for nothing. Add to that the flattery of the Soviets when they came up with what is really an up-powered Mauser round. The Mauser round came first of course but the Soviets saw a good thing and copied it.
It is a flat shooter and delivers a good bit if energy even at distance. In a smg it is very good and in a pistol it is still good.
The ammo is light and one can carry more of it. Magsafe makes a good bullet for it for defencive purposes. Hek, I am sure the steel cored milsurp would do in a pinch if confronted by a bruin. If it can punch through mild steel it may very well punch through the bone of a bears skull. I don't know this as a fact but I'd prefer to walk through the woods with a Tok in 7.62x25 than a 9mm or .45ACP.
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Old March 27, 2008, 04:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
7.62x25 is a military round.
Um... FALSE it's actually the 7.62x39 that is our standard nato round for the M240G/B or the M40A3 If you are in Iraq and use a AK-47 then it the x25 model.

Another thing 9mm over penatrate as well not as much but in house to house case almost as much. You'd want something in .40 minimum or .45 maximum for home house to house SD also make them hollow points so that they slow down even faster, and if penetration occurs it will stop dead in the wall behind the BG or just drop to the floor once it goes throught the BG and the wall.

Now if it's only between the 7.62 and the 9 then go 9 but at least make it hollow point and if possible (I could be wrong about this) a Sub Sonic round to make sure that you are being as safe as it can get from over penetration and the death of the innocence that might be standing right behind the poor B@$t@RD BG
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