Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

[The Sheriff]

Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits
January 6, 2008

By DAWSON BELL

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

Six years after new rules made it much easier to get a license to carry concealed weapons, the number of Michiganders legally packing heat has increased more than six-fold.

But dire predictions about increased violence and bloodshed have largely gone unfulfilled, according to law enforcement officials and, to the extent they can be measured, crime statistics.

The incidence of violent crime in Michigan in the six years since the law went into effect has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, also has declined.
More than 155,000 Michiganders -- about one in every 65 -- are now authorized to carry loaded guns as they go about their everyday affairs, according to Michigan State Police records.

About 25,000 people had CCW permits in Michigan before the law changed in 2001.

"I think the general consensus out there from law enforcement is that things were not as bad as we expected," said Woodhaven Police Chief Michael Martin, cochair of the legislative committee for the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police. "There are problems with gun violence. But ... I think we can breathe a sigh of relief that what we anticipated didn't happen."

John Lott, a visiting professor at the University of Maryland who has done extensive research on the role of firearms in American society, said the results in Michigan since the law changed don't surprise him.

Academic studies of concealed weapons laws that generally allow citizens to obtain permits have shown different results, Lott said. About two-thirds of the studies suggest the laws reduce crime; the rest show no net effect, he said.

But no peer-reviewed study has ever shown that crime increases when jurisdictions enact changes like those put in place by the Legislature and then-Gov. John Engler in 2000, Lott said.

In Michigan and elsewhere (liberal permitting is the rule in about 40 states), those who seek CCW permits, get training and pay licensing fees tend to be "the kind of people who don't break laws," Lott said.

Nationally, the rate of CCW permits being revoked is very low, he said. State Police reports in Michigan indicate that 2,178 permits have been revoked or suspended since 2001, slightly more than 1% of those issued.

Another State Police report found that 175 Michigan permit holders were convicted of a crime, most of them nonviolent, requiring revocation or suspension of their permits between July 1, 2005, and June 30, 2006.

But even if more armed citizens have not wreaked havoc, some critics of Michigan's law chafe at how it was passed: against stiff opposition in a lame duck legislative session and attached to an appropriation that nullified efforts at repeal by referendum.

Kenneth Levin, a West Bloomfield physician, was one of those critics. In a letter to the Free Press in July 2001, he referred to the "inevitable first victim of road or workplace rage as a result of this law."

Last month, Levin said he suspected "it probably hasn't turned out as bad as I thought. I don't think I was wrong, but my worst fears weren't realized."

But the manner in which the law was enacted was nevertheless "sneaky" and "undemocratic," Levin said.

Other opponents remain convinced that it has contributed to an ongoing epidemic of firearms-related death and destruction.

Shikha Hamilton of Grosse Pointe, president of the Michigan chapter of the anti-gun group Million Moms March, said she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is up in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.

The most publicized recent case came early in 2007, when a 40-year-old Macomb County woman fired from her vehicle toward the driver of a truck she claimed had cut her off on I-94. Bernadette Headd was convicted of assault and sentenced to two years in prison.

Hamilton said that even if gun violence has ebbed, it remains pervasive, tragic and unnecessary. At the least, a more liberal concealed weapons law means there are more guns in homes and cars and on the street, she said, and more potential for disaster.

Advocates for the law argue that there is nothing equivocal about the experience of the CCW permit holders who have warded off threats and, in a few instances, saved themselves from harm.

In September, a 36-year-old Troy man killed an armed 18-year-old assailant who, with three other suspects, attempted to steal his car outside Detroit Police headquarters.

Michelle Reurink, 40, a consultant in Lansing, got her CCW permit last year, not so much because she felt an imminent threat to her well-being, she said, but because she's a strong believer in the Constitution's Second Amendment -- the right to bear arms.

"The primary reason I got it is because I feel like I have the right to have it," she said.

Still, she doesn't often carry her gun during her daily routine, though she takes it when she and her husband go on their boat, she said.

Having the license and a handgun makes her feel more secure in her home (where no one needs a CCW license to have a gun), she said. She also feels more secure because of the required training, including self-defense lessons, she took as part of the license application.

Mark Cortis of Royal Oak, who conducts concealed weapons license training and sits on the Oakland County gun board, said he believes the benefits of an armed citizenry are evident in small ways almost every day, as permit holders deter trouble and live more confidently.

"The police just can't protect you," Cortis said. "If you have to call 911, it's probably already too late."

Contact DAWSON BELL at 313-222-6604 or dbell@freepress.com.

http://www.freepress.com/apps/pbcs.d...801060602/1008

[doc2rn]

The truth has come out. Kinda figured this was the case.

[Winchester 73]

Several of the usual ,useful idiots are quoted in this story.
None of their fears were realized ,but it doesn't matter.
Those evil guns are still BAD.

[highorder]

Shikha Hamilton of Grosse Pointe, president of the Michigan chapter of the anti-gun group Million Moms March, said she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is up in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.

she "believes"? she "says"? is that all it takes to get printed today? I love the bias.

[Schmidlin]

I would think that gun violence created by CCW permit holders would get thrown around alot quicker then those with out permits. People are always looking to throw that around, and to say they go largely unreported just shows the ignorance people have when they get proven wrong.

[bsf]

Originally Posted by highorder

she "believes"? she "says"? is that all it takes to get printed today? I love the bias.

Take it easy there. Seems like fair and balanced reporting to me. Mr. Bell reported the facts and then included comments from both sides. Just because one side sounds idiotic does not mean that side should not be able to comment. I do not believe the best way to win a debate is by only telling half the story. If readers of the article are so influenced by what some fermale "thinks" as opposed to the facts, the problem is not that the opposing viewpoint is presented, but rather that we are surrounded by idiots.

[poor_richard]

I think something that this article is missing is that Michigan has one of the worst economies in the nation. One could expect to see an increase in crime with a poor economy, but apparently that isn’t happening. I wonder how this is affected by “shall issue”. The first year saw a 27% drop in crime IIRC.

[crankshop1000]

Believe it or not, I think Michganders are a little better behaved since there are more CPL's out there.Yes the economy is terrible in Michigan and crime should be up.I know thefts are up and anything metal may get stolen. Scrappers are everywhere.

[Standing Wolf]

I think something that this article is missing is that Michigan has one of the worst economies in the nation.

I left Michigan in 1980, when unemployment in the upper peninsula was over 35%.

State government always kowtowed to the self-styled "big 3" automobile companies and their unions, as well as the sewer of Detroit. The rest of the state just picked up the tab.

[The Sheriff]

Dawson Bell is about as fair and objective as a reporter can get.
He started covering the Gun right's issues long before we got reform. He has followed it closely since, and I think he may even be slightly pro gun.

[highorder]

sorry folks.

I just get fired up knowing many people that can read have an IQ lower than body temp. When they see a name followed by a lofty title, anything after that must be truth.

I am also a transplanted Michigander, keeping an eye on things at "home"

[willbrink]

The outcome was to be expected, though it's nice to see a balanced reporting of it, which will probably get zero air time on the local news.

The lunk head from the MMM comments were also to be expected, and typical of the ilk "I have no proof, I have no data to support me, and I can't show crime increased, but I think something bad could happen, I just don't know what yet" was sad...

[10 Ring Tao]

Yeah, I've had a doozy of a time in the comments.

Really makes you wonder about some people...

http://forums.freep.com/viewtopic.php?t=72017

[USAFNoDAk]

Shikha Hamilton of Grosse Pointe, president of the Michigan chapter of the anti-gun group Million Moms March, said she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is "UP" in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.

The most publicized recent case came early in 2007, when a 40-year-old Macomb County woman fired from her vehicle toward the driver of a truck she claimed had cut her off on I-94. Bernadette Headd was convicted of assault and sentenced to two years in prison.

Hamilton said that even if gun violence has "EBBED", it remains pervasive, tragic and unnecessary. At the least, a more liberal concealed weapons law means there are more guns in homes and cars and on the street, she said, and more potential for disaster.
(embolding, capitalization and quote marks were added by me)

Ok, which is it Mrs. MMMarcher? Is violence UP or has it EBBED? I don't mind giving both sides of the issue some coverage, but I do mind when one side can only offer opinions, sometimes contradicting themselves, WITHOUT ANY DATA TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS!

[The Sheriff]

You're asking an anti gunner to be logical?
...and, to support their position with facts?

[CBS220]

An excellent article that did its utmost to be unbiased (and as a result told the pro-gun truth).

We should all thank the author with a short, informal e-mail. There are not enough journalists like him out there, who tell not the anti's truth, or our truth, but the whole truth.

[keeleon]

I was going to post this, but I figured somebody else would. I have been enjoying the posts here:

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comm...IDLink=3312167

commenting on that article.

[bsf]

Originally Posted by USAFNoDAk

I don't mind giving both sides of the issue some coverage, but I do mind when one side can only offer opinions, sometimes contradicting themselves, WITHOUT ANY DATA TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS!

If that is a response typical of one side of an issue, what is the problem with presenting it? I do not think it matters that one side cannot present an intelligent, coherent response. The important thing is that the reporter presents the information without bias. Once again, if people are brain-dead and buy into illogical, ridiculous arguments, the problem is not that a side's moronic argument is presented, but that some people are mentally deficient and buy into the argument.

[USAFNoDAk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFNoDAk
I don't mind giving both sides of the issue some coverage, but I do mind when one side can only offer opinions, sometimes contradicting themselves, WITHOUT ANY DATA TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS!

If that is a response typical of one side of an issue, what is the problem with presenting it? I do not think it matters that one side cannot present an intelligent, coherent response. The important thing is that the reporter presents the information without bias. Once again, if people are brain-dead and buy into illogical, ridiculous arguments, the problem is not that a side's moronic argument is presented, but that some people are mentally deficient and buy into the argument.

I said I don't mind both sides getting some coverage. My beef is not with the reporter, it's with the silly MMMarcher.

[bsf]

Originally Posted by USAFNoDak

I said I don't mind both sides getting some coverage. My beef is not with the reporter, it's with the silly MMMarcher.

Ahhh. Now I understand. You do not like stupid people. Well, duh.

[Geno]

From the article:

In September, a 36-year-old Troy man killed an armed 18-year-old assailant who, with three other suspects, attempted to steal his car outside Detroit Police headquarters.

The victim in that Sept 2007 incident was (remains) one of my dearest and most respected friends. He very nearly died. The fool perps were so brazen that they did this in front of the PD.

For what it is worth, the perp who died, had a pistol held to my friend's head. Had my friend not fired, I have zero doubts he would have died that evening.

PTL for MCPL.

Doc2005

[USAFNoDAk]

bsf wrote:

Ahhh. Now I understand. You do not like stupid people. Well, duh.

Actually, there are some stupid people I know and whom I do like, but they aren't trying to take away my civil rights to keep and bear arms. Being stupid isn't necessarily a dislikeable characteristic, in and of itself. I could really get into a debate on that, but I think I'll leave that sleeping dog alone.

[Werewolf]

Yeah, I've had a doozy of a time in the comments.

Really makes you wonder about some people...

http://forums.freep.com/viewtopic.php?t=72017

I got thru about page 5 before it and that JonM guy just got to be too much. Some people truly are too stupid to live.

[Atticus]

Ok, which is it Mrs. MMMarcher? Is violence UP or has it EBBED?

Probably up among her peers and ebbing everywhere else.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

But dire predictions about increased violence and bloodshed have largely gone unfulfilled, according to law enforcement officials and, to the extent they can be measured, crime statistics

What's this "largely" stuff? - talk about a showing a bias....