Discount houses - Near World's Largest Gun Range.

[Doggy Daddy]

Interested?
This is an article in the Las Vegas Weekly, one of those free alt-newspapers you can pick up at the local convenience stores, etc.

Considering the source, I expected some real anti-gun verbiage. I was surprised.

(Can't wait for the range to open!!)

(Link to article)

Who shall tell the people ...

February 7, 2008
by Joshua Longobardy

... that the world’s largest gun park is being built nearby?

The ground-breaking of the Clark County Shooting Park at the base of Sheep Mountain in the utter northwest region of the Las Vegas Valley in October 2006 was a grand event, out in the middle of the desert. Not just because it was attended by dignitaries representing every level of government, but also because the moment represented their collaborative effort, a quarter century in the works, to make Las Vegas home of the world’s largest shooting park. Yet the 2,900-acre, $61 million project did not ignite much public debate.
In fact, the Las Vegas Weekly noted this with a headline following the ceremony that read: “$61 million to fire a gun—and nobody has any questions?” The problem, it turns out, was that the park’s nearest neighbors were completely unaware of the park at the time.
It had been conceived in the ’80s, planned in the ’90s, secured, discussed, voted on and approved at the turn of the millennium, two years before the Carmel Canyon community of homes was built, in the fashion of a peninsula, at the very northwest end of Jones Boulevard, a mere half-mile from the shooting park. When pilgrims from all over the country moved into Carmel Canyon, no one—neither the three municipalities that surround the area nor Lennar, the home-builder—notified them of the grandiose shooting park ready to be erected next door.
It wasn’t until last month, when they read an article about the park and its projected 2009 opening in a neighborhood newspaper, that the residents came to learn of the project.
How could this be?
The Carmel Canyon residents—cops, nurses, businessmen among them—were flabbergasted when the news spread at the January 23 homeowners association meeting, the HOA president says. Theresa Nolan was one of them. In March 2006, she had moved from a small town in Connecticut into her “dream home” on the fringe of Carmel Canyon, nearest the forthcoming park, and yet Lennar, she says, had never disclosed to her the obvious information.
Before signing the home-seller’s disclosure packet, which makes no specific mention of the renowned shooting park, Nolan says she specifically asked her Lennar representative about the barren land next door. “They told me that there might be an equestrian park built there, but it looked like the plan had been dismissed. They said absolutely nothing about a shooting park.”
She’s not the only one. The disclosure packets offered to the residents in the Carmel Canyon community, an L-shaped formation comprised of roughly 200 homes, notified them only that the nearby land was zoned for civic use—such as, according to the document, “parks, schools, public facilities.”
Lorraine Lennard, who had moved to Carmel Canyon from New Jersey, says, “When
I saw ‘parks’ I considered what most people would think, children and playgrounds. I didn’t consider the world’s largest shooting park.”
A real-estate broker, Lennard did, call the county prior to moving in 2006, to cover all bases. “They told me nothing,” she says. “They said there might be a water-treatment facility, and that’s all.”
The Carmel Canyon homeowners are, of course, irate. They worry about the potential problems associated with living next door to a shooting park of unprecedented size. The two vital issues are noise and home-value depreciation.
Carmel Canyon stands roughly one mile away from the park’s shotgun range.
The shooting park plans to be open 15 hours a day, seven days a week.
Residents say they anticipate a 5-25 percent drop in the value of their homes.
The shooting park’s manager, Don Turner, says he can understand the homeowners’ concerns.
“But I think their worries are based more on perception than reality,” he says. “They don’t know what to expect, and that’s why they fear.”
Turner is the foremost expert in shooting parks and all matters (even scientific and political) related to them. He will draw off his experience as head of the Ben Avery Shooting Park, currently the nation’s largest, with several parallels to Clark County’s, and his expertise as a researcher in shooting parks, to mollify the Carmel Canyon residents’ worries on February 13, when he speaks at their emergency homeowners meeting at the Aliante library.
Regardless, Gina Falkowitz, president of the Carmel Canyon HOA, says that’s information she and her neighbors should have been exposed to when deciding whether or not to purchase their homes, almost all of which exceed $500,000.
“With regard to my personal feelings,” says Falkowitz, “I would have never purchased a home in Carmel Canyon had I been aware of the shooting park.”
Many of her neighbors concur.
Now, it appears, there is little they can do.
“At this point,” says Blanca Vazquez, a Clark County community liaison working with the Carmel Canyon folks, “I don’t know how much difference they can make, because everything has already been approved.”
Vazquez says that Carmel Canyon, like all the residential development in that region, was not anticipated when the land was first designated for the shooting park in the ’80s and ’90s.
The county is quick to point out that even though the majority of the public discourse took place prior to 2004, the park has been a topic of discussion in no fewer than eight County Commission meetings during the past two years. Moreover, Vazquez states, there is a deluxe web page on the county’s site dedicated to the park, and there are online newsletters distributed monthly to update interested citizens.
Which is true. But all those things must be sought out, and how are people to seek out something of which they have not been made aware?
For instance, in 2005, before the County Commissioners voted on a zoning change related to the park’s development, the county, according to Turner, noticed the area’s residents pursuant to county requirements. Yet, somehow, none of the residents in Carmel Canyon was informed, they say.
“We get notices from the county for everything under the sun,” says Nolan, “from rezoning to highway development, but we didn’t get anything about the shooting park.”
Turner says he was told by Development Services at the time that all nearby residents had been noticed.
Leonard Cash, director of the county’s parks and recreation department, says that it is a coordinated effort between several departments to inform residents of what is transforming within their neighborhoods.
This, perhaps, is where a mix-up occurred.
In any event, by the time the Carmel Canyon residents moved into their homes, starting in August 2004, the project was already in motion. Championed by a wave of county, state and federal politicians, and encouraged by a sea of registered gun owners, the park already carried with it too much momentum to stop, or to even push back. And thus, the question arises:
Why didn’t the home-seller, Lennar, tell the prospective buyers about the massive project?
Calls made to Lennar’s corporate office were not returned; attempts to contact Lennar’s regional office and its Carmel Canyon representatives were unsuccessful.
Of course, buyers, when purchasing a home, have a responsibility to practice due diligence, according to the law. Lorraine Lennard’s husband, Richard, says he knows all about due diligence, having been a real-estate broker, like his wife, in New Jersey. He says he’s confident that he and his wife did their part before purchasing their home in May 2005, including phone calls made to the county’s office.
Lennard says that after he learned about the park three weeks ago, he set upon the task of informing his neighbors, and that in talking to them he ard a few other stories.
“People around here say they were told the land couldn’t be developed because it was a wildlife habitat for endangered species, some were told it was horse country,” Lennard says. “I have neighbors who’ve put $50,000 in their back yards and now they are up in arms. Some have already started talking to lawyers.”
While disclosure laws vary state to state, Nevada statute says sellers have a duty to disclose any material fact that might be relevant to someone’s decision to buy a home.
Moreover, NRS 113.070 states: “Before the initial purchaser of a residence of a residence signs a sales agreement or opens escrow, whichever occurs earlier, the seller shall, by separate written document, disclose to the initial purchaser the zoning classifications and the designations in the master plan regarding land use.” Whereas designations refers to “land uses that the governing city or county proposes for a parcel of land.”
In this case it appears, according to disclosure documents kept by the Carmel Canyon homeowners, that Lennar disclosed the zoning classifications but not the master-planned designations.
HOA president Falkowitz says, “If I were to sell my property tomorrow, I would be required to disclose the shooting park. If I am required to disclose, why should Lennar be exempt?”
Falkowitz says the association has been consulting with “a handful of attorneys.”
County Parks and Recreation Director Cash says that, in the end, “this appears to be a buyer-seller issue.”
Indeed it does. Yet, as community liaison Vazquez states, the same governmental body that approved the shooting park’s location—County Commissioners—also approved Lennar’s request to build homes a mere half-mile from the park’s boundaries.
Don Turner, the man to whom county officials defer all such related questions, says he was not engaged in any discussions about the proximity of those homes prior to approval.
Lennar is one of the county’s largest taxpayers, according to the Clark County Assessor’s office.
Both Turner and Cash say that the park’s master plan—which was finalized in 2003, about the same time Lennar sought approval to develop in the area—indicates that residential development had been anticipated where Carmel Canyon now stands.

[Winchester 73]

It's not surprising.Vegas has got some real conservative folks living there.
Vin Suprynowicz is a terrific pro-gun supporter who writes for the Las Vegas Review-Journal.His byline appears in numerous gun publications including Shotgun News.He's a Libertarian, like John Stossel.I don't agree with all his ideas ,but on guns he's great.Check him out here.He covers the full gamut topic wise.

http://www.lvrj.com/columnists/Vin_Suprynowicz.html

[Doggy Daddy]

Agreed. I like Vin.

Any unhappy Californians that would like to escape to a more gun friendly environment, this could be your opportunity.

$500,000 houses being sold cheap just because there's a gun park nearby? What a time for a West-Coast gunlover to relocate...

[MICHAEL T]

Is their a home closer than a 1/2 mile I am disabiled and can't walk that far.
But I'll offer $50,000 for the close one.

[Doggy Daddy]

But I'll offer $50,000 for the close one.

I think I saw that one. The address is 1313 Backstop Lane.

[Spyvie]

The "worlds largest shooting park" must have been made with that guy from the "Big guy and his little gun" thread, because he is definitely the worlds largest shooter...

Sorry

[Doggy Daddy]

FWIW, here's a link to the county web page about the park.

[doc2rn]

Cant wait till next year I now have a destination after I graduate!

[Winchester 73]

What a wonder read from the County.If my wife gives me the green light, I'll buy the house from the disgruntled lady from the PRNJ and retire in L.V.
What irony.

Lorraine Lennard, who had moved to Carmel Canyon from New Jersey, says, “When
I saw ‘parks’ I considered what most people would think, children and playgrounds. I didn’t consider the world’s largest shooting park.”

[Happy]

Hmm... might be time to invest in property for when I retire.

Only 28 years to go.

[vynx]

I hope those house drop by more than 25%.

I'd love to buy the future retirement home next to a gun park what a great idea.

As to Salesmen not informing clients I created a saying for this.

First I want to apologize to all honest salespeople.

There will be more murderers in heaven than salesmen.

[saspic]

The shooting park is located on 2,900 acres. Development of the site, however, is much smaller. A larger area was obtained to provide a buffer around the shooting areas and keep it away from residences. For instance, the Public Module will only disturb 178 acres, while the entire build out will disturb approximately 900 acres. The closest shooting to any residence will be one mile. The rest of the 2,000 acres will be managed as a desert natural area and protected from the off road vehicle damage, random shooting, and criminal activities that are now occurring on the property. This modern shooting park has been designed to protect the environment while providing safe shooting opportunities for the public and complies with all federal, state, and local codes and ordinances. It is estimated that 47% of the households in Clark County own a firearm. When completed this will be the only public shooting range in southern Nevada.

Sounds good to me!

[Elm Creek Smith]

To the folks from Connecticutt and New Jersey the only thing I have to say is, "Welcome to the West! If you don't like the way we do things out here, go back where you came from, because we don't intend to change to be like it is back there."

ECS

[Stevie-Ray]

Well, Las Vegas just moved up another 2 notches on my list of retirement places. Gotta move pretty fast.

[Regolith]

When completed this will be the only public shooting range in southern Nevada.

Probably because its easier just to set up some targets on random BLM land.

Also, I doubt a lot of you guys would really like Clark County's gun laws. Nevada has preemption, but Clark has an exception for its handgun registration coded into State law. The rest of Nevada does not have such requirements, and is generally fairly lax when it comes to gun laws.

[chris in va]

I'll admit, the constant sound of gunfire would get on my nerves. Can't blame anyone for wanting to know about that sort of thing.

[Jdude]

I'll be glad to do a 1 for 1 swap to have my house a mile from the nearest gun range.

[Spot77]

I have an outdoor range roughly 1/2 mile from my house in the suburbs of Annapolis. I can barely hear the shooting, and that's only if the wind is blowing my direction.

It sounds like somebody swinging a hammer a few streets away from my house. If I wasn't a gun nut, I would've never noticed the sound. My wife and neighbors had never heard it either until I pointed it out...and even then they had to struggle to hear it.

Of course, the sound might carry more in the desert.....

[distra]

To the folks from Connecticutt and New Jersey the only thing I have to say is, "Welcome to the West! If you don't like the way we do things out here, go back where you came from, because we don't intend to change to be like it is back there."

ECS

Easy big guy. In CT we post signs indicating there is a range on the property and guess what people still build $500K homes right on the boundary. Attempts have been made to shut down some ranges even ban fire arm discharge with town limits. The recent attempts have failed because we gun owners have worked very hard to shut these people down. IMHO one should always question the developer. They are, for the most part, out to make a buck most times at your expense. These home owners should have Googled the county meetings to find the agenda items.

[wuchak]

I think the home owners have a right to be upset. The developer should have disclosed what was being planned next-door. It will be hard for the developer to claim that they didn't know a shooting park was being planned. Since this information could materially affect the value of the homes being built they had a duty to disclose it to potential buyers.

[30 cal slob]

hey, not all of us CT folk are hoplophobes. NJ on the other hand ...

[Claude Clay]

dbl post

[Claude Clay]

cops, nurses........so, anyone can afford $500,000 homes and 'greens fee's' on the area's prevailing wages. i am relocating there for sure and soon. discount houses and a range i can walk to . retirement never sounded better.
even a ex-realtor was bamboozled in a game i am sure he knows how to play. shame. for him, sad i do not feel.

[TargetTerror]

I actually sympathize with the home owners not on the grounds that a shooting range is opening up next to them, but on the grounds that they were essentially defrauded into buying property that is different from what it was represented to be. Is the risk or noise nuisance from living so close to a shooting range something they should actually be concerned about? Probably not, but it is ultimately up to the homeowner to decide if they want to live there regardless.

If they were planning on building a nuclear power plant 1 mile from where I was thinking of buying, I'd want to know that too. In both instances, the risk would be minimal to nonexistant, but any oopsie could be catastrophic. Both would also have an impact on the price of the property I'd be looking at, which is not something to quickly discounted.

[whitetiger7654]

What's with the horrible grammar in that article?