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Old December 4, 2014, 07:48 PM   #1
Crawdad1
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Another 'Match' grade Remington

I thought this video was interesting for you Remmy guys. I think this guy was mentioned as one of the top shooters at the MLAIC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ8EYQ9ng30

Precision shooting with a 1858 Remington .44 black powder revolver - replica by D. Pedersoli (made in Italy). ISSF Pistol Precision Target at 25 meters / 27 yards. This is a "match grade" revolver for MLAIC competition. Shooter is M. Cruz (Portugal).

Video was made three years ago but I've never seen a Pedersoli Remington for sale by anyone.
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Old December 4, 2014, 09:53 PM   #2
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Being Pedersoli you'd probably have to find out who your nearest distributor is and order one in from Italy. When i ordered my Harpers Ferry it took about 2 months to arrive iirc.

I would say its almost all shooter and load development when it comes to BP accuracy. My old Armsport 1858 could shoot that well but unless i took the cylinder out of the gun after every series of shots the bloody thing would foul solid.

When we had our blackpowder open at the club it was almost all Ruger old Army's but one of the top shooters was using a 1858 with Thompson Contender sights. It looked like one of those bubba's guns that would make you cry but jeez it shot well.
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Old December 5, 2014, 12:12 AM   #3
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I'm not impressed!
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Old December 5, 2014, 10:10 AM   #4
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Neither was I and a little surprised by the results, especially at that range of 27 yards. I figured a better group.

Still some insight into the newer Pedersoli Remington and their entry into 'Match' grade Remingtons.
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Old December 5, 2014, 12:46 PM   #5
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For the time and concentration he was taking to get those shots off, I thought he was at the least, 50 yards.
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Old December 5, 2014, 01:34 PM   #6
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I agree also. At first I thought it was at 50 yards or more and I was very surprised and that's why I included the description of the video.
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Old December 5, 2014, 01:52 PM   #7
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If you observe the video, you might catch the wind noise from the camera's microphone. Also, if you watch the target, it moves in and out with the wind force.

The shooter was not facing a calm day for his shooting. You'll notice on the fourth and fifth shot, he had to bring the revolver down more than once. He is affected by the wind, and this makes it difficult to hold the gun perfectly still and retain sight picture. He also has something else. He's being recorded on "film".

A match shooter knows he/she should not hold the gun on target more than about eight seconds. However, there is the tendency for a competitor to hold the gun on target until the shot is fired. I call it the "marathon fault". After 8 or 9 seconds of holding, accuracy tends to suffer and the barrel begins to waver, yet the shooter is going to hold the gun up until the shot is fired.

The other thing to remember in this video is the target. This is the 50 meter ISSF target that is normally fired in black powder revolver matches at 25 yards in the U.S. and 25 meters outside the U.S. Note the black "bull" is larger because it is designed to be shot at 50 meters.

The International Target has no "X-ring". If you compare this target with the NMLRA 25 yd Pistol Target, you'll see the disadvantages of the International Target. The black bull is too large to shoot at 25yds, when one "grew up" shooting a black bull measuring 5-1/2".

Black Bull area diameter
25 yd NMLRA Target: 5-1/2"
50 M. Internat Target: 7-1/4"

10-Ring diameter
25 yd NMLRA Target: 3-3/8"
50 M Internat. Target: 1-3/4"

All in all, pretty good for a windy day of shooting. If one were to transpose the hits onto the 25 yd NMLRA Pistol Target, it would likely score a 59-2X/60. To further understand the difference between the two targets, the 9-Ring on the International Target @ 3-1/2" is about the same diameter as the 10-Ring on the NMLRA Pistol Target @ 3-3/8".

What this boils down to is the competitor who is used to shooting "tens" on the NMLRA target will see themselves getting "nines" on the International target, which means trying harder to get "tens" in a circle as big as the X-Ring on the NMLRA target. The International target IS a challenge to shoot, especially to "Ace It", all tens.

When I shot at Friendship at NMLRA National Matches from 1987 till 1998, the International target is shot in both the Open & Traditonal Revolver Aggregates.

In one 30 minute relay, the competitor is allowed to shoot a maximum of 13 shots with the 10 highest scoring hits to count. 10 10's= 100 points.

In the late '80's, I brought along a fairly good pistol shot from Burlinton, NC to shoot for a week at the National Matches at Friendship. In the Open Revolver Aggregate, I witnessed him shooting the International event. With his Ruger Old Army, he shot 3 "eights" at 12:00. He adjusted his sights, looked at the time clock, bore down, and proceeded to shoot ten shots all inside that 1-3/4" diameter, 10-Ring, shooting a perfect 100 score (remember 10 highest count).

He won the National Championship that year, and his name is in the Record Book as the first to shoot a "100" score in the history of the Revolver Aggregate. John Rooker is also a "Distinguished Master" one of four from NC.

A "D.M." has to shoot at the National Matches, a 925 score out of a possible 1000 points (10 target events), three years, not consecutively. That means averaging a score of 93 on ten targets of which three targets are at 50 yards. Three pistols are used. caplock s/s, flint s/s, & revolver. And of course, one hand hold on the gun.

Quite a few people asked me not to bring him back the next year. He had so much fun, he came back for six more years.
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Old December 5, 2014, 02:13 PM   #8
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I did observe the video, Duh!

That's why I'm not impressed.
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Old December 5, 2014, 02:14 PM   #9
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Watch "capandball"s channel on YouTube for his presentation, "Shooting The Pedersoli Remington Percussion revolver". His accent is sometimes hard to comprehend, but I still like his format. Notice it's raining on the day of the filming of this clip.

He is one of the first to recommend 4FG for a powder load. I'm going to try 16 grains in my .36 caliber Ruger Old Army. The PO recommended it to me, and since he won the NMLRA National Muzzle Loading Pistol Championship in 1997 with the .36, I can be confident with the result.

I like to see revolver shooters clips filmed outside the U.S. It's comforting to see in the face of the European governments efforts to discourage ownership & activity shooting.

Hey, 20,000 views since 2011. Check out other clips on his channel.

Refreshing!
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Old December 5, 2014, 02:23 PM   #10
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I agree, he does some great videos testing these revolvers.
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Old December 5, 2014, 02:26 PM   #11
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Meaning no disrespect, what did y'all expect for shooting on a windy day?

I don't know what the shooter's ability level is, but under the weather conditions, he seemed to be shooting fine.

If you're not impressed, can you elaborate without bold type?
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Old December 5, 2014, 02:30 PM   #12
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I just wanted people to see that revolver he was using. I did not notice the wind you mentioned.
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Old December 5, 2014, 03:11 PM   #13
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Based on the lack of sync between the two views, i was thinking that the target was 500 yards or so...three second flight time...
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Old December 5, 2014, 03:38 PM   #14
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For using a "Match Grade Revolver", I'm guessing it's suppose to be more than your off the shelf revolver.

I've seen just as good of results and better, shooting at 27 yards, in 1/5th of the time, than this guy took. Using an everyday revolver you buy from Pietta or Uberti.

If this is all that I can expect from a Pedersoli match grade Remington revolver, then I'm not impressed.
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Old December 5, 2014, 10:35 PM   #15
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The gun is quite good. The shooter is good, but that's not gold-medal quality shooting. He's on track to shoot a 94. Which would place you between 7th and 17th place (depending on tiebreakers) at the 2014 World Championships. It took a 98 to win.
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Old December 5, 2014, 11:50 PM   #16
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In the description of the YouTube Video, it states that he is "testfiring" the Perdersoli Remington revolver. Then, it says this model was used to win the MLAIC European Championships in 2011.

I don't know if the feller in the video was trying out for the Portugese International Team, it does't say, however shooting on a windy day, his shooting & stance was respectful.

Barbie might want to take a gander at "capandball"s video that I posted above. He got some tight groups using 4FG, shooting in the rain from a bench & sandbags.

It's expensive, but the best way to determine accuracy of any handgun is to put it in a Ransom Machine Rest. I used it to test groups with .45's that we accurized for NRA Conventional Pistol competition shooters.

Mike, you might know some friends of mine here in NC that shot on the U.S. Team, Tod W. & Tom W.
from the Raleigh area. I believe Tod uses either a Pedersoli or a Hege. They both are members of a N-SSA CSA Battery Team.

I understand the German-Made Hege Remington revolver @ $1,700.00 US is actually made by FWB. Hege's next level Remington revolver is a Uberti tuned by FWB and selling about $1,200 US.

There's a couple of fellers on the 1858 Remington Forum that bought Hege/ Uberti revolvers, one in Southern France and the other in Finland. I understand a person who wants a Hege or a Hege/Uberti would have to order it directly from Germany and have it shipped through customs to their address.


A very well-known NRA Pistol Champion, Bill Blankenship, once told me in my store back in '80's that "Accuracy is 99% mental concentration".
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Old December 6, 2014, 01:09 AM   #17
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Honestly, I don't know what you want me to say!

There is nothing in the Capnball video that is worth even watching. I would hope that he would shoot tight groups using a bench and bags. Who wouldn't?

As far as shooting in the rain, I don't think so. It was raining at the start of the video, but not when he was shooting it was not raining. Maybe you should watch the video.

For some reason, you don't want me to give my opinion. Why can't I be un-impressed?
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Old December 6, 2014, 02:28 AM   #18
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I believe your opinion counts in this discussion. In a previous post, I said, "meaning no disrespect....."

But I like it when someone makes a statement and then elaborates on why they have this position.

I do think anyone who wants to judge the merits of the Pedersoli Remington on its accuracy would have to have someone high on the competition ladder or a member of one of the international teams to give his/her experienced opinion. Judging the accuracy of the gun based on the video is not worthwhile. IMHO.

The only other outlet for judging is the Ramsom Machine Rest, which too expensive for most of us to get our hands on.

"Match-Grade" can be an effective merchandiser for the uninitiated public. Just like in the knife business, all kinds of steels are promoted; "surgical steel", Swedish Tool Steel, Oil-Hardened Steel. These are terms to impress the public to set the knife apart from the rest of the herd.

Your use of bold type and comments like your last post, "maybe you should watch the video" makes me think this is not a friendly place.

If I have offended you, I apologize. I meant no disrespect to you. If you see this as condescending, then I'm SOL. I figured apologizing in front of everyone here might carry some weight.

I hope you and I continue this discussion without the sarcasm.
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Old December 6, 2014, 10:00 AM   #19
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More load development for it possibly. But reading down through those comments some are pretty brutal. But 2 in the 10 ring and 3 in the 9 ring ain't bad but the group is not what I would expect. In my opinion there is something in that load that his revolver doesn't like.

Last edited by Crawdad1; December 6, 2014 at 10:11 AM.
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Old December 6, 2014, 10:16 AM   #20
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Look at the groups he's getting with HIS Pedersoli Remmy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3cHmmjct8U

That would be a good revolver to hunt with in my opinion.
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Old December 9, 2014, 11:53 PM   #21
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holy crap! and only 5g of FFFFg!
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Old December 10, 2014, 12:13 AM   #22
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But if you take a look here, Uberti is offering a dovetailed front sight in most if not all of their forged frame Remingtons.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/black...del-100ch.html

(look under the 'specs' tab)

Though they may not be considered 'Match' grade as far as tuning is concerned you are still getting adjustable sights and that just may be the ticket.

Last edited by Crawdad1; December 10, 2014 at 09:45 AM.
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