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Old June 4, 2015, 06:04 PM   #1
stubbicatt
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C&B or Richards Mason conversion

Well guys, I'm stymied.

I'm not a young fella anymore. Competition just does not appeal to me anymore. I'm selling off a few of my match rifles etc., to concentrate on simple recreational shooting at cans and what not, a sandwich and cold water. Slow, steady, and unhurried; a day in the forest enjoying a slower pace.

I really like the looks of the Uberti revolvers, and recently purchased a Uberti 1873 rifle. Very attractive piece. The rifle is chambered in 357 mag, and I cast bullets for it.

Up for consideration is either a Richards Mason conversion in 38 special or an 1872 open top in the same chambering. I prefer the longer barrels over the shorties.

I also like the Whitneyville Dragoon. Perhaps I might find a Kirst conversion for it one day.

At first blush these are apples and oranges I guess. Whichever I were to get would be shot with black powder, though I guess the 38 I could load up with some 231 and also have a blast with it. A benefit is that I already cast bullets in this caliber, so I wouldn't need to buy new moulds and bullet sizer dies.

I wonder, however, how well the 38s would function after firing a couple few cylinders of black powder cartridges through them? Do you suppose fouling would become a function issue, where the cylinder doesn't want to turn due to accumulation of fouling?

Any known issues which need to be rectified with either the Dragoon or one of the 38's? Any experiences which would be helpful to making the decision? Which would you choose? The Dragoon, the Richards Mason conversion, or the 1872 open top revolver.

Thanks so much.
Regards,
Stubb.
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Old June 4, 2015, 09:02 PM   #2
Crawdad1
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I had a '51 Navy with its Howell's conversion cylinder and shot cartridges loaded with black powder through it with no problems. As to what should you get for leisurely shooting, I'd get the black powder revolver, the Dragoon.

Last edited by Crawdad1; June 4, 2015 at 09:27 PM.
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Old June 4, 2015, 09:03 PM   #3
jaxenro
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Honestly the Dragoons are loads of fun
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Old June 6, 2015, 07:07 AM   #4
StrawHat
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If you want to potentially use the same bullets in your rifle and revolver, go with the factory built conversions. The bore of the revolver will be in line with the bore of the rifle. If using different caliber bullets doesn't bother you, go with a C&B and a conversion cylinder.

For me, I like it simple. I have a couple of Richards conversions chambered in 44 Colt that use the .430 caliber bullet. I am looking for a lever action rifle that is chambered in 44 Special.

Kevin
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Old June 6, 2015, 10:52 AM   #5
45 Dragoon
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I'm kinda partial to the Dragoon with a gated conversion. Big ol gun and shoots 6 big ol bullets!

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Old June 6, 2015, 02:23 PM   #6
whughett
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Quote:I wonder, however, how well the 38s would function after firing a couple few cylinders of black powder cartridges through them? Do you suppose fouling would become a function issue, where the cylinder doesn't want to turn due to accumulation of fouling?

I can't speak directly as to shooting a Richard Mason conversion, as I don't have one. I can note that my ROA's with an R&D conversion cylinder in 45 Colt is much cleaner after a range session with cartridges loaded with black powder that when shooting cap and ball. The bores are the same of course but the cylinder, base pin and gun in general are much cleaner and there fore easier to clean. The cases however add another step as they too require special care in cleaning.
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Old June 6, 2015, 06:49 PM   #7
Tommygunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whughett View Post
Quote:I wonder, however, how well the 38s would function after firing a couple few cylinders of black powder cartridges through them? Do you suppose fouling would become a function issue, where the cylinder doesn't want to turn due to accumulation of fouling?
I can't speak directly as to shooting a Richard Mason conversion, as I don't have one. I can note that my ROA's with an R&D conversion cylinder in 45 Colt is much cleaner after a range session with cartridges loaded with black powder that when shooting cap and ball. The bores are the same of course but the cylinder, base pin and gun in general are much cleaner and there fore easier to clean. The cases however add another step as they too require special care in cleaning.
Let me add my two cents; The two cartridge "conversions" I have have a collar made as part of the cylinder that shields the arbor from any flame/residue that gets through the cylinder gap, thus helping to keep dirt out of the cylinder arbor and helping to maintain cleanliness. Keep it lubed and keep the cylinder wedge in correct and it ought to work reliably.
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Last edited by Tommygunn; June 6, 2015 at 11:50 PM.
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Old June 6, 2015, 07:30 PM   #8
45 Dragoon
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OK, "the two cartridge conversions I have. . ." are for what?

Mike
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Old June 6, 2015, 10:20 PM   #9
BSA1
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I have wanted a Open Top in 38 Special with a 5 1/2" barrel ever since I watched the movie "Crossfire Trail".

Smokeless and blackpowder are two totally different critters.

As far as using smokeless powder you are correct with using mild loads with W-231.

As far as feeding your conversion blackpowder forget everything you know about smokeless. First totally degrease your gun of all petroleum oil and grease. Relube with a vegetable based oil and grease. Ballistol is a excellent choice.

As for bullets softer lead lubed with a soft lube such as SPG works best. Hardcast lead bullets with hard wax lube is a poor choice.

Finally I like a relatively big barrel/cylinder gap around .008". For reference .008" is about the thickness of a business card. Soft lead and squirt of Ballistol will keep fouling soft.
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Old June 6, 2015, 10:58 PM   #10
45 Dragoon
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Open tops work better/longer with .002 bbl./cyl. clearance. You won't have any fowling to keep "soft". .008 gap is why you have fowling.

Mild loads? 1000 fps, 250gr.lead rnfp .45 Colt
You don't have to use squib loads.

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Old June 6, 2015, 11:10 PM   #11
45 Dragoon
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You guys!!!

You don't use cards to set a gap that can change with the next shot!!
And, you don't keep the wedge ”correct”.

The arbor defines the clearance between the barrel and the cylinder. This can't be the first time you've seen this! This is why folks keep telling the same old crap!

Mike
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Old June 6, 2015, 11:14 PM   #12
Tommygunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 Dragoon View Post
OK, "the two cartridge conversions I have. . ." are for what?

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
For .... shooting bullets out the barrels.

I went back and edited the post, correcting a spelling error that was possibly confusing .... maybe .... somehow.

If that's not it, then I don't understand your question.
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Old June 6, 2015, 11:25 PM   #13
45 Dragoon
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OK. What conversion cyls. come with a bushing in them?
What gun are they for?
Did you make them ?
Did you add the bushing yourself?

Mike
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Old June 6, 2015, 11:48 PM   #14
Tommygunn
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They're not "bushings," really, collars. One is a Richards Mason conversion of the 1851 and the other a 1871 open top.
They are structurally part of the cylinder, it may not be obvious that they are there until the cylinder is dismounted.
I didn't make them, the guns are both Uberti and came this way from the factory.
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Old June 7, 2015, 08:43 PM   #15
BSA1
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Quote:
Open tops work better/longer with .002 bbl./cyl. clearance. You won't have any fowling to keep "soft". .008 gap is why you have fowling.

Mild loads? 1000 fps, 250gr.lead rnfp .45 Colt
You don't have to use squib loads.
I have the gap set for .008" and can shoot 50 - 60 rounds without cleaning so I guess it is a matter of preference. You certainly have nice guns posted on your website.

The O.P. was asking about 38 Special.
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Old June 7, 2015, 09:09 PM   #16
jaxenro
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Neither the open tops or the RM are typical conversion cylinders but are made at the factory as cartridge revolvers
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Old June 7, 2015, 09:58 PM   #17
45 Dragoon
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Jax,
Hey! (First) and, I was wondering if the factory "conversions" had something a little different.

BSA1,
Thanks for the compliment! I have many customers that shoot 100 + rounds (one reported 160 rounds each from two guns at a 3 day match and just wiping the outside with no takedown at all ) with no binding whatsoever. If you think about it, where does the fowling come from? Why open the door all the way when just cracking it will do? My cartridge opentops have more like a .0015 clearance. They also stay very clean. The Freedom Arms S.A.s are factory set at .002 (that's why mine ended up where they are). It takes extra time to do it but it works very well.


Mike
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Old June 7, 2015, 10:09 PM   #18
Crawdad1
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That's what we say around these parts, "Just send the damn thing to Mike. he'll fix it."
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Old June 7, 2015, 10:14 PM   #19
45 Dragoon
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Dang Crawdady!! Thanks a bunch!! (checks inna mail!!)


Mike
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