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Old April 24, 2009, 11:22 AM   #1226
patsue
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I have enjoyed this thread very much. I was already a fan Lonesome Dove so I guess I need some advice.

Who makes the best quality Walker besides Colt? A local gunshop has a beautiful one for sale around 400 bucks that is engraved. It is some Italian made, probably Uberti.

I have a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 50 cal. so I am not totally new at blackpowder.

I would like something that is well made and durable. I have an Italian colt navy that someone gave me for a gift. While I appreciate the gift, I would never shoot the thing, it's loose, ill machined and fitted, and the trigger is a hair trigger.

Pat
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Old April 24, 2009, 11:38 AM   #1227
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Quote:
Does anyone know of a dealer with a Uberti walker in stock, I have checked with most,Midway,Dixie, Taylor's etc. and none in stock,thanks, Willie
Texas Jacks?
Buffalo Arms?

Some of the web sellers don't have on-line up-to-date inventories so it's hard to tell without giving them a call...
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Old April 24, 2009, 11:42 AM   #1228
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Well, I guess people like different makes. I use Uberti and have gotten excellent service with my Uberti Walker. I know it's a Colt model, but I don't ever think about Colt. Uberti made my Walker and to me it's a Uberti gun. To hell with some old man named Colt. Colt didn't have a damned thing to do with the quality and workmanship built into the gun I have carried and used for years..14th Alabama CSA.
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Old April 24, 2009, 11:45 AM   #1229
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Have another question for you Walker historians........... Now I realize the 1st model Dragoon was a replacement for the Walker and some of its problems. Were the Walkers taken out of Texas service upon the appearance of the 1st model Dragoon and subsequentally the 2nd and 3rd model Dragoons as well or did they continue to use the Walker even as the newer Dragoon model became available? I see the USMR (United States Mounted Rifles) sometimes referred to as the Texas Mounted Rifles as well. IS this correct? I have read and do not know if it is truthful that the Texas Rangers were issued Walkers and Dragoons? Any truth to this? Thanks again, Craig
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Last edited by NobleSniper; April 24, 2009 at 12:11 PM.
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Old April 24, 2009, 04:20 PM   #1230
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History sometimes has a way of messing up today’s perspectives.

Read the following, written in 1848 by Colonel George Talcott, Chief of Ordnance.

Quote:
The first issue of Colt pistols proved to be almost complete failures for practical utility, as had been the case with other repeating breech loading arms, and created a prejudice against them. In support of this, I need only to refer to the issue of this pistol to the Texas Rangers, under the celebrated Col. Jack Hayes. There were received 280 pistols, and after less then a year’s service there were left to be returned to the arsenals but 191 in all, of which only 82 were serviceable, the remainder chiefly bursted in the hands of the men, a few being lost in skirmishes with the enemy. These arms were issued in August 1847, and the Rangers turned in whatever were left when they mustered out of service in the spring of 1848. The pistols last made have been modified in some respects from the original pattern, and much improved in the manufacturer, particularly in the material used.
As the first of they’re kind, what we call the Walker Colt was rushed into production when a war with Mexico seemed both likely and imminent. The revolver was the result of collaboration between three men, not two. Each was critically important in they’re own unique way. Colt was the designer, who had invented the first practical revolver and patented it in 1836. Walker was the warrior, who understood what the weapon needed to be, and Eli Whitney Jr. was an experienced and respected arms manufacturer who had something that neither Colt or Walker did – a factory that could immediately fill the 1000-gun order the Army was ready to place.

Unfortunately what Walker wanted and needed exceeded what the available technology and materials of that day could provide. So ultimately the revolver that bares his name was a failure. If the steel alloys we have now had been available then, it is probable things would have turned out differently.

Additionally, under the circumstances, there was no time to adequately test the new weapons – a condition known to have happened both before and after this particular pistol came about. So what experience was gained was learned in the field, and not on a shooting range under ideal conditions.

As for the Texas Rangers, the men under Jack Hayes undoubtedly had more combat experience with Colt pistols then any other group of men in the southwest, and quite possibly the whole United States. Prior to 1847 they had been armed with Colt pistols made at Patterson, NJ. Relative to loading the pistols, it is unlikely that they did stupid things, like putting bullets in backwards.

Talcott’s report makes no mention of problems related to loading the revolver as such, and instead assigns responsibility for the frequent “bursted” calamity to questionable steel used to make the cylinders.

At best, the Ranger’s experience and use of the Walker revolver was limited to a few months fighting Mexicans, with little or no Indian warfare involved. In what came after 1848, they carried for the most part what we (but not they) call Colt Dragoons, or its successors.

A little less then one third of the total Walkers that were made were issued to the Texas Rangers. Reading between the lines of Col. Talcott’s report, it would seem that those that had survived the Mexican War were recalled to arsenals during 1848, and soon replaced with the later, and improved pistols (meaning Dragoons) that Talcott refers to. As a frame of reference, by late 1848 enough Dragoon style pistols were available to make continued issue of the Walkers unnecessary.

While the Walker may have been seen as a failure at the time, it succeeded in reestablishing Colt as “the” manufacturer of revolvers. The shortcomings in the Walker were quickly resolved, and the issues that plagued it did not occur again.

The rest of the story is…. Well, history.
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Old April 24, 2009, 04:40 PM   #1231
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Quote:
Quote:
Does anyone know of a dealer with a Uberti walker in stock, I have checked with most,Midway,Dixie, Taylor's etc. and none in stock,thanks, Willie
Texas Jacks?
Buffalo Arms?

Some of the web sellers don't have on-line up-to-date inventories so it's hard to tell without giving them a call...
As a follow-up, a local dealer has two Uberti Whitneyville Dragoons in stock...not a Walker, but I guess close.
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Old April 24, 2009, 05:43 PM   #1232
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Quote:
Uberti made my Walker and to me it's a Uberti gun... Colt didn't have a damned thing to do with the quality and workmanship built into the gun I have carried and used for years
Ah, yes, GOC. But without Colt's design and engineering, the steel in your Walker would have ended up as a Beretta or a Cacciatore pan!
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Old April 24, 2009, 06:28 PM   #1233
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A. Walker, I'm not trying to badmouth Mr. Colt. They came up with a good design. (for the most part) I can pretty well imagine how it all came down. Walker told Colt what he wanted the piece to be able to do. Colt drawed it up and passed it on to Whitney or one of them and they built it exactly according to the specs that was given to them by Colt.
Of course it was a good design. (to me) I like the Walker just fine, glad Walker got together with Colt, but Colt himself didn't have a damned thing to do with the Walker I own. I like my Mercury Cougar XR7 to but Henry Ford didn't have a damn thing to do with it. People have to learn how to put credit where credit is due. I think that someday mankind will walk on the planet Mars. Hell, I'vd already got it figured out how we'll do it. Real simple. Build a ship big enough to carry enough fuel to get there and back. Make sure to carry enough air and food and water to last for the trip. Now, someday when they do go there and back I'm sure as hell not expecting to get the credit for it. 14th Alabama CSA..
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Old April 24, 2009, 06:44 PM   #1234
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I think what A Walker is alerting to the fact that. Mr. Colt designed the first revolver. So with that design and idea more people could come into play to make it work better. Mr Colts greatest achievment was the Patterson in that he made the first working revolver. However like others mention it was the meeting of the minds with Mr. Walker and Mr. Colt that made that next design in which many more guns were made on. All of the internals and mechanisms from the walker on were almost the same just different sizes. The abundance of parts and complication that took to take apart and put a patterson together were gone. Same time look at the all other manufactures. They took mr. Walker and mr. Colts design then changed a few things. but the actual mechanism was very similar between all brands.


But it all started with the Patterson
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Old April 24, 2009, 06:45 PM   #1235
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Im sure if Mr. Walker was not killed he would have went on to help Mr. Colt design the best revolvers out their including a top strap design.
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Old April 24, 2009, 06:46 PM   #1236
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GOC, not to belabor the point, and all in fun, you understand, I have to disagree to a point. I agree that H. Ford had nothing to do with your Cougar, but if you were driving a replica of a Model T it would be a different story. What we're all shooting is a Model T, Colt style. Colt (and Walker) dreamed this exact design up, he had it made (makes no difference if it was 170 years ago or today), and he would recognize it if he saw a modern replica. It's still Colt's original design, drawn by him, whether it's made by Whitney or Uberti, 170 years ago or today. Now, if you were talking about a Python or some other modern design, I'd agree. But the Walker is Colt's gun today, yesterday, and tomorrow.

Last edited by A. Walker; April 24, 2009 at 07:10 PM.
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Old April 24, 2009, 07:20 PM   #1237
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A.Walker, I agree with you also. (to a point) I'm not speaking of the design at all. I'm speaking of the metals used today and things of that nature. If I lived back then, knowing what I know (or suspect) today, there's no way in hell I would have carried or shot one of those 'Walkers'. I would have been afraid it would blow up in my face. Like I stated in the previous post; I like the design just fine. I like my Walker. But it's a Uberti Walker. It's a 'modern' Walker. Built better, stronger, and is far more dependable...14th Alabama CSA..
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Old April 24, 2009, 07:26 PM   #1238
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Built better, stronger,
For a minute i thought you were going to sing the song from the 6 million dollar man. That tv show from the 70's
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Old April 24, 2009, 07:33 PM   #1239
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I see your point. As Old Fuff pointed out, the failures of the original Walkers weren't necessarily due to the design. You're right that Colt never handled your particular gun, made some 140 years after his death, but my point still remains:

Quote:
without Colt's design and engineering, the steel in your Walker would have ended up as a Beretta or a Cacciatore pan!
'nuff said!
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Old April 24, 2009, 07:33 PM   #1240
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Scrat, I'vd never even heard of that show.
I have to throw this in even though it's the Walker club. Tell A. Walker that the .357 Python and it's little brother the .38 Diamondback were 2 fine revolvers. I carried them both (not at the same time) in government service....
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Old April 24, 2009, 07:44 PM   #1241
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Quote:
Who makes the best quality Walker besides Colt? A local gunshop has a beautiful one for sale around 400 bucks that is engraved. It is some Italian made, probably Uberti.
The only company still making Walkers is Uberti. Previous makers included Armi San Marco, Palmetto and Colt. In terms of quality they would rank, from best to worst, Colt, Uberti, ASM, Palmetto.
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Old April 24, 2009, 09:08 PM   #1242
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Mr. MyKeal, thank you buddy. Very kind and pleasant of you to chip in here and help me get Scrat and A. Walker straightened out!!14th Alabama CSA..
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Old April 24, 2009, 09:42 PM   #1243
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Ok, about the cylinders exploding from bullets being inserted upside down. go here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=LQa...num=1#PPA80,M1
and they talk about that (page 80)and the fact that over 300 were sent back to the factory for repairs....doesn't necessarily mean I'm right, but I did read it presented as a fact.
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Old April 24, 2009, 10:26 PM   #1244
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pwilli. I was in the Cabelas in Owatanna Minnesota today and they have Uberti Walkers in stock. As has been mentioned By GOC I believe you can find one in stock at Cabelas.
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Old April 24, 2009, 10:38 PM   #1245
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A dang good site SLTM1... Thanks
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Old April 24, 2009, 10:40 PM   #1246
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Quote:
...doesn't necessarily mean I'm right, but I did read it presented as a fact.
I wouldn't take it otherwise...

Mike Cumpston is a regular and very knowledgeable contributor on The High Road, but I must wonder about two statements in his otherwise excellent book.

1. That reversing the bullet in the chamber(s) was a major cause of blown cylinders.

2. That 300 revolvers were returned to the factory for repairs.

Part of the problem is that Mike didn't provide any citations (footnotes) to show what his source for this information was. I have reviewed a number of reference books with detailed overviews of the Walker, including quotes taken from letters, reports, and other documents from that time, and I found nothing to confirm the above claims. This doesn't mean that either Mike or I are either right or wrong - simply that I can't find anything to support something that I've never come across before.

As for repairing 300 guns. It would have been pointless to send them back to Whitney. Colt had moved on and had his own factory. If anything at all, it would be more likely that Colt would install Dragoon length cylinders and barrels which they were actively making. I am aware of some transitional revolvers that were made after the Walkers, but before the 1st Model Dragoon, that had a combination of features from both Walker and Dragoon revolvers, however they were all serial numbered in a higher range then the Walkers, so it is unlikely any of them were part of an Army repair order. I find it hard to believe such an order of this magnitude would escape the attention of all the major Colt historians.

I will continue to research further…
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Old April 24, 2009, 10:57 PM   #1247
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Old Fuff, We should send the question off to the "Myth Busters", let them destroy a perfectly good Walker either proving or disproving an original "Urban Legend". If you can't find any cross documentation, maybe it only happened once or twice and the myth exploded exponentally?! In fact, I'm going to email them once I get off here. As far as sending them back for repairs, maybe you're right about changing the bbl's but more likely, the Army "surveyed", them (for those or you without military experience, that's a polite word for, "Sh*t Canned").
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Old April 24, 2009, 11:03 PM   #1248
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That Walker is getting more popular by leaps and bounds every year. Mr. MyKeal just informed us that Uberti is the only company making them now. Uberti is going to make another and separate fortune off of that Walker. They'vd already made one separate fortune off of the Cattleman's Carbine.
I'm glad for them. The Walker they turn out is a fine product. But...it's a Walker, and you really have to work with it to reach a high level of proficiency. Took me about 2 years of hard assed work before it started really coming together. Although of course I wouldn't want to, (who in their right mind would?) I'd face any kind of animal with that Walker. I'vd already faced a few mean ones right here on the North American continent with it. That Walker knocked their ass in the dirt to, and kept it there.
I am so proud and happy for Uberti. I really am. Of course I love my Pietta '58's to, but I just feel a certain kinship with Uberti. No doubt it can be traced back to my Walker. That Walker will kick some ass. Take my word for it. Just learn how to shoot it and clean it and take care of it, and if you ever need it you don't have to worry. It will be there for you...14th Alabama CSA..
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Old April 24, 2009, 11:03 PM   #1249
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Fuff and gentleman, thanks for answering some of my questions
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Old April 24, 2009, 11:08 PM   #1250
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Noble Sniper, you called Old Fuff 'gentleman'???? Lord, now I'vd heard it all!!..
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