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Old April 26, 2009, 06:49 PM   #1301
messerist
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I've always wanted a Dragoon too! You guys are just making me want one even more!! Wife thinks you are in league with the dark lord! I just tell her that Walker needs a lil' brother.
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Old April 26, 2009, 07:44 PM   #1302
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Yep, Old Fuff has it right.

To the absolute frustration of the collectors Colt produced what are called 'transition models' that would be half '1st Model', half '2nd Model', and the same between the '2nd' and '3rd Models'; there were also transitions between the Whitneyville and 1st Model. They were made by using up the old parts when building the 'new models'. These 'transition models' were not reproduced by the replica makers, but they can be 'manufactured' by collectors just by swapping parts.
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Old April 26, 2009, 08:48 PM   #1303
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Thank you Mr. MyKeal. Knew you wouldn't let me down. Knew Fuff wouldn't either; he just has his hands full right now researching all the questions and whatnot.
I like the post (both of them!) you made in reply to that trashy post about the CVA's. I started to jump in there to (I own and shoot CVA .45 caliber inlines) but I figured it wasn't worth the bother. Thanks again Mr. MyKeal....
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Old April 26, 2009, 08:54 PM   #1304
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Quote:
To the absolute frustration of the collectors Colt produced what are called 'transition models' that would be half '1st Model', half '2nd Model', and the same between the '2nd' and '3rd Models'; there were also transitions between the Whitneyville and 1st Model.
Just so you know this hobby is not alone in naming variations, in railfanning, there has evolved a trend to list locomotives by phases, too. Start with your basic model, if the maufacturer added a couple louvers or changed the style of headlight, you either have a 1b, or Phase 2, etc...

All in all, its the kind of thing that can drive a sane person nuts, but is so much fun taking the trip. Now, who will be the first here to call a transition Walker Model the Model 1a or 1b, etc...

The Doc is out now.
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Old April 26, 2009, 09:11 PM   #1305
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I like my Walker 2C-UT just fine....
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Old April 26, 2009, 11:12 PM   #1306
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add me to the member list please will post picture when i get back from old Mexico God willing........Preacher
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Old April 26, 2009, 11:33 PM   #1307
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Brotherlloyd, Scrat will take care of your registration just as soon as he see's this post. Welcome aboard!!
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Old April 26, 2009, 11:39 PM   #1308
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Old April 26, 2009, 11:40 PM   #1309
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Every one say hi to the NEW guy

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Old April 27, 2009, 12:12 AM   #1310
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Seeing as how GotC has that 1st model Dragoon he dislikes the proper thing for me to do is to get my affairs in order and make him a good offer on that
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Old April 27, 2009, 12:21 AM   #1311
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Welcome aboard Brotherlloyd from another new member
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Old April 27, 2009, 12:27 AM   #1312
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Quote:
Just so you know this hobby is not alone in naming variations, in railfanning, there has evolved a trend to list locomotives by phases, too. Start with your basic model, if the maufacturer added a couple louvers or changed the style of headlight, you either have a 1b, or Phase 2, etc...

I can't get past 2-4-2. with the steam powered, gear driven engines, it well drive you crazy. I don't want to even think about all the diesel variations.
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Old April 27, 2009, 12:53 AM   #1313
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Quote:
These 'transition models' were not reproduced by the replica makers
Well I know of at least one Colt Sig. Dragoon that is of that exception.
It's a Colt Sig Dragoon 1st Model oval Bolt, Frame oval cutout, Oval Cylinder slots, and Oval not squared back trigger guard 3rd or last model Dragoon(Colt did not give the Dragoons model numbers of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd) ... all matching Colt S/N's...
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Old April 27, 2009, 09:09 AM   #1314
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Not Walker, but...

I recall in a Dixie catalog many years ago seeing the Dragoon models defined as:
1st Model, squareback trigger guard
2nd Model, round trigger guard
3rd model, round trigger guard with leaf rear sight mounted on barrel

The Doc is out now.
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Old April 27, 2009, 09:37 AM   #1315
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SG - I am aware of your example of a transition model Signature Series Dragoon replica. When I say that the transition models were not produced by the replica manufacturers, I'm saying that none of them claim to have intentionally done so; such models did not appear in any of their catalogs for sale to the retail public.

The origin of your gun is a mystery. There are many possible explanations, but I'm fairly certain that Colt Blackpowder Arms did not intentionally produce and market for sale any replica Colt revolvers configured as transition models. Evidence of that would be a catalog or a box label using that term or a similar term describing the gun as a different design from the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Model Dragoons; I'm not aware of that evidence.

As to the gun itself, it's a remarkable piece; I certainly wish I owned it. You are a very lucky or probably more likely perceptive guy. How it came to be would be great fun to discover. It may well have been built by Colt Blackpowder Arms, in fact, it very probably was. I'd love to know the details, as I'm sure you would also.
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Old April 27, 2009, 11:24 AM   #1316
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Quote:
I recall in a Dixie catalog many years ago seeing the Dragoon models defined as:
1st Model, squareback trigger guard
2nd Model, round trigger guard
3rd model, round trigger guard with leaf rear sight mounted on barrel
I have seen photos of originals with the barrel mounted sight, I would like to find a repro like that. The current DGW catalog shows 1st and 2nd with Dragoon guards and 3rd with round. That is how the 2nd and 3rd gens were marketed.

Quote:
Well I know of at least one Colt Sig. Dragoon that is of that exception.
It's a Colt Sig Dragoon 1st Model oval Bolt, Frame oval cutout, Oval Cylinder slots, and Oval not squared back trigger guard 3rd or last model Dragoon(Colt did not give the Dragoons model numbers of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd) ... all matching Colt S/N's...
That's a rare find SG. I wounder if some one grabbed the wrong trigger guard when they assembled it?
My 2nd gen Walker has a raw cylinder, like the originals, but all documentation says it should be blue.
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Old April 27, 2009, 12:01 PM   #1317
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Toward the end, the financially strapped maker of the Signature Series revolvers begain using up parts on hand, any way they could, to get they're money out of them. Production of such revolvers was very limited, and I suspect that they have, or will have, some additional collector value if they are kept in mint condition.

On the original revolvers, a small numer of what we call the 3rd model Dragoon were equipped with shoulder stocks. The backstraps were iron, not brass, and they and the frame were modified to take the shock. A dovetailed sight was mounted at the rear of the barrel, and this feature normally only came on the shoulder stocked variant. Because of the small number made, they are still considered to be a subset of the 3rd. model, and were never classified otherwise - except by Dixie Gun Works - so far as I know.
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Old April 27, 2009, 01:21 PM   #1318
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Ya know, I've been watching - and posting on - this thread, so I guess I ought to become a member.

Here's a picture of my 2nd Gen Walker.



FM
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Old April 27, 2009, 01:27 PM   #1319
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Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series Third Model Dragoons

I have a 2000 Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. Signature Series catalog. Listed are three variations of the Colt Third Model Dragoon.

1. Colt Signature Series Third Model Dragoon with brass backstrap.

2. Colt Signature Series Third Model Dragoon with steel backstrap cut for
shoulder stock.

3. Colt Signature Series Third Model Dragoon with fluted cylinder.

All have round trigger guards, rectangular cylinder stops, and stop slots. All retailed for $499.95. Only twelve original Third Model Dragoons with fluted cylinders were produced on an experimental basis to reduce bulk and weight. Eventually the idea was abandoned.
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Old April 27, 2009, 01:41 PM   #1320
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Noble Sniper, good morning. I guess I better not. I'm not really sorry I bought it, just like I'm not sorry for the work I had done on the '58's and the carbines.... I did have the internal parts of the 1st hardened and polished up. Same thing with the '47's and the '49's, but I (the gunsmith) didn't mess with the barrels on any of the Colt models in any kind of way. I don't 'collect' guns. I very carefully picked out everything I figure I need for the rest of my life even under adverse conditions (war, pestilence, famine, etc). Each one of the few I have was picked out for a certain reason. (some just for backup in case of theft, etc) The 1st was an exception to the rule. I knew I didn't need it when I bought it. The reasons I bought the 1st was mostly because of it's looks and it was the direct decendent of the '47. (sense of loyalty here) and also because I knew it would shoot the .457 ball. (which it does, just like and just as good as my '47) I'vd got it greased down and put back out of the way. It's not hurting anything laying over there....

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Old April 27, 2009, 03:05 PM   #1321
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Thanks for allowing me to be part of this team. I've used a ROA for years to harvest meat and it is good don't get me wrong but I have just always wanted more for deer and hogs. I have a older unfired U. Walker that I swapped a rem.742 for. Thanks to the wealth of information the members have, I will be able to tune, load, shoot it and that gives me a real advantage in the woods that would take years to learn. I thank-you and/pray that God will bless you and your children and your childrens children. In Jesus name Amen!

Preacher.......
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Old April 27, 2009, 05:13 PM   #1322
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Thats fine GotC Just figured if you wanted to move it I may be interested here soon. Good evening..........
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Old April 27, 2009, 05:39 PM   #1323
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Quote:
Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series Third Model Dragoons
I have a 2000 Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. Signature Series catalog. Listed are three variations of the Colt Third Model Dragoon.
CBA continued to release different models of the Dragoon in to 2002.

F1700 First Model, with three variations.
F1720 Second Model, with two variations.
F1740 Third Model Civilian, with two variations.
F1741 Third Model Military, with two variations.
F1743 Third Model Fluted, with two variations.
F1750 Third Model Cochise
F1848 Whitneyville Hartford, with four variations.
F1854 Marine Dragoon, based on the Whitneyville, limited edition.

Seventeen different types of Dragoons from CBA alone.

SG, no mention of your round guard 1st model.
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Old April 27, 2009, 06:12 PM   #1324
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http://www.youtube.com/miltonSF
thought this might help somebody on tear down and assy.
Preacher....
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Old April 27, 2009, 06:48 PM   #1325
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Brotherlloyd, it do appear that you and I have lot's in common. I hunt a lot also. Not as much as I used to but I still get around. Yes sir. We're going to have a lot to talk about.
Brotherlloyd, you say you have been using an ROA but that you 'want more'. Well, in years gone by I have fired military ranges and what all. A group of us would get together with various pieces, some modern cased and some blackpowder, just for a day out. I know what the ROA will do at 100 meters and it ain't much. I also know what that fully loaded Walker will still be doing at 200 meters with plenty to spare. People like what they like. No problem, but as far as power and range (translates into stopping power and knock down power at extreme distance) goes there just ain't no comparison. I have to shut up. Some ROA owners will jump on here and start screaming about how the ROA is the finest gun ever built and all, Brotherlloyd, but I'vd done seen it demonstrated too many times. If they like the ROA that's just fine I guess. I'm sure you like your's to. (However, may I point out one thing? Those Walkers are selling hand over fist just as fast as they can make them. If the ROA was so wonderful then more people would have bought them and Sturm and Ruger would still be making and selling them) Just messing around. Camp LeJeune, Camp Stone Bay, Camp Geiger, a couple of FBI ranges, a Central Intelligence range and I believe one more place but I can't remember the name of it right now... That Walker will probably be a little difficult for you to get a handle on, but once you do then it will surely do the job up right. Enjoy it Brotherlloyd and may there alway's be meat on your table....14th Alabama CSA..

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