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Old May 9, 2009, 07:51 PM   #1526
Steven Youngblood
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Has anyone seen the price for a nipple wrench?
I have one for my rifle, and one for my walker, but neither one will fit my 1851 navy, by Armi San Paolo.
I looked at several places and found prices from 5.99 to 20 +.
Instead I chose the less expensive way.
1. 3/8 inch- 1/4 inch dirve socket and use dremel tool to cut a slot in the socket.
it works on the 1851 and the walker.
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Old May 9, 2009, 08:18 PM   #1527
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This thread contains more genius than any other!
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Old May 9, 2009, 08:43 PM   #1528
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That is a great nipple wrench replacement. Digging around now for an appropriate socket, since I just broke my last POS wrench.
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Old May 9, 2009, 08:49 PM   #1529
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I like that as long as that socket is not !@#$%^&*()_+ Chinese
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Old May 9, 2009, 08:53 PM   #1530
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Brotherlloyd!! Yeah, it get's next to all of us now and then dosen't it?!!!
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Old May 9, 2009, 09:01 PM   #1531
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GotC, good to here from you. I trust all is well ?
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Old May 9, 2009, 09:06 PM   #1532
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Steven Youngblood, that is a very good idea, sorry for having a moment their i use to wrench for a living God bless
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Old May 9, 2009, 09:11 PM   #1533
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And you can mount that new Nipple Socket on a screwdriver type handle for ease of use and to prevent over torque with a ratchet.

Great idea sir!!
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Old May 9, 2009, 09:32 PM   #1534
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Brotherlloyd, I'm alright I guess. Doing pretty good for old folks....
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Old May 10, 2009, 07:35 AM   #1535
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Okay, so hardening this nipple wrench wasn't such a good idea . . .

You can actually see the change in the steel crystalline structure from the tempering process I used. Pretty cool, but still a bad idea.

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Old May 10, 2009, 08:38 AM   #1536
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Quote:
Okay, so hardening this nipple wrench wasn't such a good idea . . .

You can actually see the change in the steel crystalline structure from the tempering process I used. Pretty cool, but still a bad idea.
After you harden (heat treat) it is very brittle. You have to draw it back to eliminate the brittleness. You had the right idea, just didn't do the final step.
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Old May 10, 2009, 08:46 AM   #1537
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Thanks madcratebuilder, I figured something was missing was missing in process.

Got a link to a dummies guide to drawing steel after tempering?
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Old May 10, 2009, 09:42 AM   #1538
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Definitions:
Annealing - Softening the tool steel for working, by heating to the hardening temperature and cooling slowly. Slow cooling can be accomplished by burying the steel in an insulating medium such as lime or vermiculite and allowing it to cool to room temperature.

Hardening - Heating the steel to the hardening temperature and cooling suddenly by quenching in an oil bath.

Tempering - Reheating the hardened steel to the tempering temperature in order to relieve stress induced in the hardening process, and remove some of the hardness in exchange for toughness. Untempered, hardened tool steel is nearly as brittle as glass
excerpt from "http://www.threeplanes.net/toolsteel.html"
I hope this helps.
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Old May 10, 2009, 09:48 AM   #1539
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It certainly does! But I have an idea that might get more consistent results on drawing the temper.

Pics coming shortly after the proof of concept either works or fails.
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Old May 10, 2009, 09:51 AM   #1540
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Brotherlloyd, I hear ya.
I've been mad ever since they started the whole metric thing.
I remember being told that if we did not adopt the metric system, that the rest of the world would stop trading with us.
That is when we started giving up our identity and started on this path of compliance to the one world order.
So if it is a Chinese socket, what better thing to do than modify it to serve an American purpose, with some good ole Yankee ingenuity.
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Old May 10, 2009, 12:41 PM   #1541
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remember when craftsman was a good tool and napa part were made in the usa but i do have an old craftsman set that i can use to make the tool if not i will use one of my snap-on sockets
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Old May 10, 2009, 07:52 PM   #1542
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remember when craftsman was a good tool and napa part were made in the usa

don't get me started.
you would think the tools were made of gold.

I'm also working on another box.
I had an old Outers gun cleaning kit box. I have just started but here it is so far.
It is sittling on the walker box. post 768 this thread. page 31
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Old May 11, 2009, 09:02 AM   #1543
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Madcratebuilder -

Ok, here's the repaired nipple wrench, annealed first to remove the brittleness by heating to cherry red and cooling very slowly covered up in a coffee can full of cat litter. After that, it was SOFT!

I reground the broken end to some semblance of a wrench using my grinder and files, then I hardened it again, buy reheating it to cherry red, and immediately quenching it into an oil bath. Did this twice in fact. Now to draw the temper to to remove the brittleness, but leave the toughness . . .

Since this is a much more temperature sensitive process to do it correctly, I had to think of a way to achieve and hold a drawing temperature of between 450° F and 700° F. I knew the propane torch would be too hard to control for this purpose. Looking around my bench, my eye was drawn to the new Lee melter I had purchased. Aha! So I melted up 5 lbs. of lead, fluxed it twice, and set the thermostat for 670° F. When the lead thermometer indicated it had cooled down to temp, I dunked the hardened end of the wrench into the molten lead, and let it sit for about 5 minutes.

Draw a temper madcratebuilder says . . . I think i did it. Next was to test the wrench on the stubborn nipple that broke it the first time. Result below.


Original broken wrench, hardened, but not tempered due to my ignorance.



Annealed (softened and stress relieved) wrench ready for reshaping.



Reground wrench end, still in annealed condition, but ready for hardening and oil quenching



Hardened wrench before descaling and polishing. This was the condition the wrench was in when it broke due to brittleness.



Different angle of the wrench in hardened condition, before descaling and polishing.



Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Wrench after drawing the temper in a lead bath for 5 minutes. Cool colors and obvious transition in temper about half way up (I think).



Another view of the now hardened and tempered wrench with the new end profile. Time to test it on the stubborn nipple that broke it in the first place!



Jambalaya! Success! Now i have to remeber why I wanted to pull that nipple in the first place.



Close up of the fit of the wrench on the nipple. I think I missed my calling, har.



And now for something different, pretty colors! Both wrenches fully hardened and with a drawn temper on the wrench ends. The second wrench I left the steel in the condition it came from the manufacturer for contrast.



Closeup of the first wrench, and the colors imparted by tempering in a bath of molten lead at 670° F.



And a cool color chart to show the temperatures reached during tempering and the equivalent Rockwell hardness imparted on different steels.



To paraphrase GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL, I now feel like when I walk on my two legs, I seem to leave 3 prints in the sand. Just call me the human tripod!
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:32 AM   #1544
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Looks great.
very good job.
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:38 AM   #1545
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Steven Youngblood,
Like your ideas good to see a man using his head for more than a hat rack. That is what I like about the Men of Walker.
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:42 AM   #1546
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Steven, after all that, I am still applying your method of modifying a ¼" socket.

It's so simple, a caveman (like me) could do it! And it's the best idea I've ever seen for a strong reliable nipple wrench.
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Old May 11, 2009, 06:38 PM   #1547
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Thanks.
We only have 1 grocery store and 1 hardware store, whithin 20 miles, so I have to make do with what I have on hand. We have an archery store on the square in town, but he is only open from 7pm to 10 pm, because his day job is at the funeral home. But I do love it here.
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Old May 11, 2009, 06:57 PM   #1548
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Quote:
. . . because his day job is at the funeral home . . .


Where's here?
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:00 PM   #1549
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Nice work Ginormous. By going to cherry red on the first attempt you made it soft again, done that before. I try for a light straw color and cool in course sand. Be sure and use a oxygen poor flame if your using a acetylene torch setup. Smartflix.com has a basic heat treating for gunsmiths dvd, shows you what you can do with just a mapp torch.
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:20 PM   #1550
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MCB,

I used a neutral / slightly reducing flame on all processes where the flame directly impinged on the steel. The lead tempering bath was definitely oxygen poor.

One thing I forgot to mention during all of this . . . I discovered how well steel FLOATS on molten lead. Just like a bobber!
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