Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya..................

[2dogs]

Killing unborn children= Saving the children

Disarming innocent people so that only criminals have guns= Protecting the children

No War, even against tyrants like Hitler, the Butcher of Baghdad or Kim Jong Il= Making the world safe for the children

No death penalty for the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson etc= Justice for the children

Banning finger guns, stick guns, french fry guns, water guns, the word "guns", playing army and cops and robbers and cowboys and indians= A safe environment for the children

Yes, I've seen the light and the error of my ways- I'm giving up my guns.

For the children.

Won't you join me?

Now let's all hold hands...............................

Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya.
Kumbaya........................................................................................

[standingbear]

can we also add the barney song with that...for the chilren of course.woops,i ate my french fry gun.

[4v50 Gary]

Gun Freeeeee!
Rob me and goooo!

[standingbear]

guess ill drop a few stink bombs and run.

[Airwolf]

Didn't all this really get going with the "it takes a village to raise an idiot, er, child" crap awhile back?

Yeah, right. Try correcting anyone else’s child and the kids will tell you to FO and the parents (if anywhere to be found) will do the same.

Try disciplining your own kid in public and run the risk of someone calling the cops screaming "child abuse". Do it at home and run the risk of a teacher finding out and getting CPS involved.

Yeah, "raise"... a euphemism for "let the little bastards get away with anything they want" and control the adults behavior instead. Oh, and give us all your money in taxes for our social (ie: handout) programs.

The do it for The Children™ type need to go away:

[Wildalaska]

Typical, typical...

The only rights the right want are the rights they think are right...

They are the true enemies of freedom.

[Porter Rockwell]

Hello again, would you mind elaborating on your statement?
What exactly is the "right" in your context?
Personally I believe there are many similiarities (SP?) between both parties and the system of donations for favors (BRIBERY) is clearly corrupt in both (are they really that different?) parties.
I once believed that the words liberal and communist were interchangeable but upon closer examination many of the communist party planks are seen in both the dem(ons)and repugs.
Our public indoctination centers (schools) are a prime example, mass media also adds to the Big Brother effect (hasn't anyone read and understood Orwells book??) so no real change is possible.
IMHO, the repugs, and even the citizen action groups (NRA etc) do little more than attempt small efforts at the symptoms and not the disease.
McCarthy was right but THEY won.

[cordex]

Is there something in the forum water fountains?

[Wildalaska]

Hello again, would you mind elaborating on your statement?

I would if I could figure out what you are trying to say in response..

[Tamara]

They are the true enemies of freedom.

It would be more accurate to say that they merely offer a different flavor of statism than the left. Both are repugnant to freedom.

The Mommy Party and the Daddy Party; I'm sick of them both. Couldn't we just round up all the folks who want to tell each other what to do and let them do it someplace else?

[Wildalaska]

It would be more accurate to say that they merely offer a different flavor of statism than the left. Both are repugnant to freedom.

I have to disagree with you there, the left (in this country) is far less likely to put you up against the wall and shoot you...

[Tamara]

Up against a wall? No. But after they take away all my money to spend on stupid social programs (as opposed to the GOP, who wants to take slightly less money, and give it to defense contractors for gold-plated boondoggles), they may shoot me while confiscating my outlawed guns.

Besides, the same generation that was throwing rocks at cops when they were in college proved mighty fast to deploy the new, militarized federal LE agencies once they got the reins of power in their hands.

Which right-wing president did the Reno Justice Department serve under?

Left or Right, it's all about the power...

[Wildalaska]

they may shoot me while confiscating my outlawed guns.

Well now thats an interesting scenario...lets take it to this...the Supreme Court of the US rules that the 2nd amendment is not an individual right. Congree passes a gun turn in bill..like in Australia....the Supreme Court says OK...they start searching for guns..all under color of law...

If you shoot at them arent they justified in shooting back...???

new, militarized federal LE agencies once they got the reins of power in their hands.

Hmm are we referring to Randy Weaver here, a two bit white supremacist murdering thug who shares equal responsibility with fascist agents for the fiasco at Ruby Ridge..???

My point is..there is a distinct alliance between Hayden lake and various right wing groups who unfortunately for normal gun owners support the RKBA..if we lose our gun freedoms, it is because of them...because the great mass of moderate citizens of this country are afraid of these lunatic fringers..these are the citizens we have to win over...

Look how many times on the Board we see rascist comments, or the code words such as "traitor"..

Read some of the signatures....

[Tamara]

Hmm are we referring to Randy Weaver here, a two bit white supremacist murdering thug who shares equal responsibility with fascist agents for the fiasco at Ruby Ridge..???

Impassioned, but wildly inaccurate.

Was Randy Weaver a white separatist? Yeah. Did he want to live by himself out in the woods? Yup. Did he have some off-kilter religious beliefs? Yes, again.

Show me where any of that is illegal. Believe it or not, it's not against the law to be a jerk in this country.

Also, you refer to him as a "murdering thug". I'd be interested in who you think he murdered? Marshal Degan was shot by Kevin Harris...


Actually, I was referring more to Waco, since Ruby Ridge happened on Bush Sr.'s watch. You can see the different modus operandi between the right and left right there. One deploys federal thugs against innocents for victimless malum prohibitum offenses, while the other deploys federal thugs against innocents for victimless malum prohibitum offenses. See?

[Selfdfenz]

"I have to disagree with you there, the left (in this country) is far less likely to put you up against the wall and shoot you..."

Incorrect. Both have a history of misadventure in this arena.

S-

[whoami]

My point is..there is a distinct alliance between Hayden lake and various right wing groups who unfortunately for normal gun owners support the RKBA..if we lose our gun freedoms, it is because of them...because the great mass of moderate citizens of this country are afraid of these lunatic fringers..these are the citizens we have to win over...

Look how many times on the Board we see rascist comments, or the code words such as "traitor"..

It should be noted that politically such a position would be akin to suicide. It should also be noted that most 'moderate citizens' would label each and every member of this board as 'lunatic fringers' based solely on what we propose with regards to gun rights. Blaming the 'various right wing groups' (it would seem you are not considering that most moderate citizens would label the NRA as a right wing group on the lunatic fringe) would not only be a hit towards the existing support for RKBA (political infighting, destruction from within), but it would utterly fail to address the major cause of our lack of support from the moderate citizens. Just for the record....care to address specifically WHICH 'right wing groups' and 'lunatic fringers' you feel will be the downfall of RKBA among the 'moderate citizens'?

With regards to gun rights, we can in many cases ill afford to turn away support, simply because there exists certain ideological differences. To paraphrase something I heard a preacher say 'I will greet anyone who believes as I do as a brother or sister in Our Lord Jesus Christ. To those who don't, I will greet them as a brother or sister in the toils of life'. I would have to note it interesting that while there are, for example, many here on this board who utterly disagree with, say, homosexuality, I've yet to hear them rail at organizations like the Pink Pistols. Consequently there are those who are more enamored of the traditional 'old-world' organization of the sexes....I've yet to hear them assault organizations like Armed Females of America, or the Second Amendment Sisters. There are many here who disagree with the Libertarian party, but it's rare to see them decry the support given by Libertarians for RKBA. Seems these dangerous 'right wing'ers, and 'lunatic fringers' have a better understanding of tolerance and diversity.....

Is there a problem with labelling someone a traitor? Last I checked, there was a legal definition for treason, and there is at least some evidence that members of our government are at the least suspect (whether intentional or not) of having committed said act. Then I guess we ought to distance ourselves from the founding fathers....as I recall one of them shot a man dead on the White House lawn for 'treason'.

Racism....people will think as they will, whether fortunate or unfortunate. I prefer to judge people more on their actions than their words. Oh, and once you've purged the ranks of support for RKBA of people with 'right thought', and for 'political expediency' (purges which should be noted would more than likely remove many of the members of this board, as well as just about every major gun rights organization), what do you expect to have left? A group that will be acceptable to the 'moderates'....people who believe the Constitution doesn't mean what it said back then, isn't all that relative, and only covers the militia (as the National Guard). Good show, ole chap....

[Wildalaska]

Was Randy Weaver a white separatist? Yeah. Did he want to live by
himself out in the woods? Yup. Did he have some off-kilter religious
beliefs? Yes, again.

Off kilter religious beleifs? Like Jews are the spawn of Satan, blacks,
Latinos, asians are "mud people", Jews should be exterminated, Hitler was a
great man, the US gov't is controlled by Jews (ZOG)..yep sounds real off
kilter to me...although perhaps the word should be paranoid loony...

Show me where any of that is illegal. Believe it or not, it's not
against the law to be a jerk in this country.

Of course its not against the law to be a jerk. Bill Clinton proves that. It
is against the law however to posses a sawed off shotguns and then fail to
appear in Court. By the way, REAL activists fight for their beliefs in
Court, not run like cowards. Thats what the rule of law is all about...ON
the other hand with bozos of his ilk its "O wait though, the little birdies
in my brain tell me that Adolf was right and the ZOG is gonna get me if I
show up so Ill just break another law,,,"

Also, you refer to him as a "murdering thug". I'd be interested in
who you think he murdered? Marshal Degan was shot by Kevin Harris...

Just because he got off without being charged doesnt make him any less
responsible for the death of a Law Enforcement officer...Lon Horuichi got
off too and he is a murdering thug, right.?
Keep in mind the felony murder doctirne...

Actually, I was referring more to Waco, since Ruby Ridge happened on
Bush Sr.'s watch. You can see the different modus operandi between the right
and left right there. One deploys federal thugs against innocents for
victimless malum prohibitum offenses, while the other deploys federal thugs
against innocents for victimless malum prohibitum offenses. See?

Innocents? Thats a whole other debate right? Suffice it to say that legally
you have no right to resist ANY arrest...or are we forgetting that? Becasue if we are, there is no rule of law...

[Chris Rhines]

Please, people, for the sake of all that is good in the world, please try to rid yourselves of this perverted love affair with The Law. I know that sometimes it requires individual thought and analysis of one's actions, and that may hurt a little, but it'll be good for everyone in the end.

Just because something is illegal, does not make it wrong. Why would you let the State determine your morality? Think for yourself!

- Chris

[Wildalaska]

It should also be noted that most 'moderate citizens' would label each and every member of this board as 'lunatic fringers' based solely on what we propose with regards to gun rights.

O really? And what does each and every member of this Board propose for gun rights? Do well all support no rules at all???I submit that the members of this Board who support reasonable restrctions on guns are the ones who are not the lunatic fringers....

care to address specifically WHICH 'right wing groups' and 'lunatic fringers' you feel will be the downfall of RKBA among the 'moderate citizens'?

Well lets start off with Larry Pratt...anyone forget his little attendace up at Hayden Lake..how about the MOM? Is that something we need on our side..the Liberty Lobby, the John Birch Society....

we can in many cases ill afford to turn away support, simply because there exists certain ideological differences.

And when the Aryan Nations and the WAR and their ideological allies join your march against a gun control measure you are gonna support them as an expedient...??? You and every other decent human being do not find their basic philosphy abhorrent?

I would have to note it interesting that while there are, for example, many here on this board who utterly disagree with, say, homosexuality, I've yet to hear them rail at organizations like the Pink Pistols. Consequently there are those who are more enamored of the traditional 'old-world' organization of the sexes....I've yet to hear them assault organizations like Armed Females of America, or the Second Amendment Sisters. There are many here who disagree with the Libertarian party, but it's rare to see them decry the support given by Libertarians for RKBA. Seems these dangerous 'right wing'ers, and 'lunatic fringers' have a better understanding of tolerance and diversity.....

Sorry I dont equate a harmless organization like the Pink Pistols with right wing murderous fanatics. And the rest of your thought quoted above is logically nonesensical IMHO.

Racism....people will think as they will, whether fortunate or unfortunate. I prefer to judge people more on their actions than their words. Oh, and once you've purged the ranks of support for RKBA of people with 'right thought', and for 'political expediency' (purges which should be noted would more than likely remove many of the members of this board, as well as just about every major gun rights organization), what do you expect to have left? A group that will be acceptable to the 'moderates'....people who believe the Constitution doesn't mean what it said back then, isn't all that relative, and only covers the militia (as the National Guard). Good show, ole chap....

OK so what you are saying is that guns owners per se are rascist fanatics? That if we "purge" rascists or right wing looneys (interesting choice of words) most of the membership of this Board will be gone? Sorry I dont think so, I think the majority of gun owners are normal, decent people...

And by the way, keep in mind that when the Supreme Court says what the 2nd amendment means, thats what it means...whether you personally agree with it or not..because thats what this country was based on...the rule of law...

Is there a problem with labelling someone a traitor? Last I checked, there was a legal definition for treason, and there is at least some evidence that members of our government are at the least suspect (whether intentional or not) of having committed said act.

I call you on that...define treason and tell me who in our government is arguably guilty of that..the entire treason mumbo jumbo is a fiction of the lunatic right...

[4570Rick]

You are exactly right.

Rule #1
The only differance between Dems and Reps is the subtrifuge used to take what's yours.

Rule #2
There are only two types of politicians. Those that are corrupt, and those who are being corrupted.

[Chris Rhines]

I think I'm going to be ill.

I really hope that Wildalaska's philosophy is not the prevalent one among those in the freedom movement. If it is, then there's no point in fighting anymore.

- Chris

[rock jock]

The only rights the right want are the rights they think are right...

As opposed to you, who thinks murder should be legal?

[Tamara]

Off kilter religious beleifs? Like Jews are the spawn of Satan, blacks, Latinos, asians are "mud people", Jews should be exterminated, Hitler was a great man, the US gov't is controlled by Jews (ZOG)..yep sounds real off kilter to me...

Hate to break the news to you, but that shameful ol' "First Amendment" gives you the right to believe all of that, as long as you don't try to act out your beliefs on your fellow man.

I thought you Lefties were all about Freedom of Thought?

[Wildalaska]

As opposed to you, who thinks murder should be legal?

Where did I say that?

[rock jock]

So you are against the idea that some people have the right to commit murder, correct?