Quantcast
Steel shot and home defense - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Shotguns

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 11, 2015, 11:02 PM   #1
USAF_Vet
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Hastings, Michigan
Posts: 4,496
Steel shot and home defense

This question is inspired from my lead ammo ban thread over in legal. Got me thinking, lead ammo has been banned in shot for water fowl hunting for years now. I haven't been goose or duck hunting in years, so I don't even have any steel shot, so this is purely academic.

How well would steel shot perform at close range, home defense distance? I know lightweight shot isn't ideal, although a lot of people still swear by 7.5 and 8 shot for home defense. I'm not going to argue whether or not its the best choice, as I prefer 00 buck and 1 oz. slugs.

Does steel shot perform better at point blank than it's lead counterpart? Would steel make a lightweight shot more viable as an HD load?
__________________
Quote:
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
- A. Einstein
USAF_Vet is offline  
Old March 11, 2015, 11:25 PM   #2
rcmodel
Contributing Member
 
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Location: Eastern KS
Posts: 52,829
IMO: No.

Steel shot is lighter for any given diameter then lead shot.
So it takes larger steel shot to equal lead shot penetration on game.

The same would apply regarding your question.

Some of the other non-lead shot types are denser then lead, and could be a viable alternative.

Bismuth, or Tungsten, or Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote, etc. would be better then lead, and far better then steel.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hevi-...ion/706224.uts

Now, let's not get started on the 'birdshot is for birds' argument.

As a former KS Hunter Safety Instructor, I'm here ta tell ya a 1 1/4 oz #6 Pheasant load in the belly and you are DRT when you are 10 miles from help.

At living room distance, a 12 ga will put a rat hole in you, no matter what shot size you are using.

rc
__________________
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Or all your primers in a glass jar!
rcmodel is offline  
Old March 11, 2015, 11:40 PM   #3
pps
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 27, 2008
Posts: 455
If lead ever gets banned, I'll ignore the ban.
__________________
The United States of America
July 4, 1776 - January 19, 2009
pps is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 12:08 AM   #4
HB
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 18, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,088
I think it would be fine in most instances though I do wonder about ricochet often. I only use steel for geese and never really seen anything to suggest it bounces badly.

Its my understanding that steel shot is softer than many other steels but I wouldn't want to shoot a steel plate with it at close range.

Anybody have experience with steel shot and ricochet?

EDIT: Steel BBB is still some serious stuff fyi. I'm too young to have hunted waterfowl with lead but have shot other game with steel and lead. Lead kills much better, even on doves.

HB
HB is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 01:02 AM   #5
nathan
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 4, 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,887
The BB steel shots are pretty deadly on close range. NO doubt about it...
nathan is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 10:03 AM   #6
chas08
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 6, 2008
Location: South Central Texas
Posts: 2,125
I think rcmodel nailed it. Not much you can add to that. I will say that steel T-Shot has some pretty impressive penetration on geese. Pass throughs are very common at ranges in excess of 40 yards.
__________________
I'd rather beg for forgiveness, than ask permission.
chas08 is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 10:28 AM   #7
WestKentucky
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 1, 2014
Location: Hoptown
Posts: 2,696
The only potential benefit steel has over lead is also its biggest setback...that it is lighter and wouldn't carry energy very well through a wall or other objects. If a person lives in an apartment or very dense population of garden homes then penetration through the neighbors place could be a concern. Even at that though, lead mushrooms and sheds weight as it impacts objects expending it's energy whereas steel pretty much drills a hole and keeps going. In an apartment type setup I think I would use #4 or #6 steel, for all other applications it's lead T shot
__________________
Spellchecker and autocorrect is ran by anti-gun people who think that a "hi-point" should be "hip ointment" and a "parabellum" is a "parable lump" and so forth. Please excuse idiotic things that the electronics think I said that I never said. http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/
WestKentucky is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 11:06 AM   #8
natman
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 11, 2007
Posts: 3,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF_Vet View Post
Does steel shot perform better at point blank than it's lead counterpart? Would steel make a lightweight shot more viable as an HD load?
No and No.

Steel is still lighter than lead. Its sole virtue is that it's non-toxic to waterfowl, which is irrelevant to HD.
natman is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 01:15 PM   #9
strambo
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 14, 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,937
I'll also add there is a drastic difference in terminal effect of small shot at point blank range (contact/near contact shot to belly) vs. 12ft across the room. Across the room, the pellets are all on there own and will create a shallow wound not likely to reach the vital organs.

Anyone who "swears by" birdshot for HD doesn't understand terminal ballistics IMO and hasn't had to count on it to stop an attacker determined to end them. For the attacker who is going to run no what firearm is employed (the smart ones), it is all moot.
__________________
"If you think you are going to be in a violent situation...make it violent!" -TargetFocusTraining
NRA Instructor/Life Member
Kettlebell Exercises!
strambo is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 03:00 PM   #10
Dr.Rob
Moderator
 
 
Join Date: December 23, 2002
Location: Centennial, CO
Posts: 13,466
When I inherited a friend's HD shotgun (A Mossberg 88 with a 18 inch barrel) I was surprised to find it, and an Allen bandolier loaded with steel shot. I am not even sure that barrel was rated for steel shot.

3 inch BB steel shot. It room distance it would probably do the job, but I packed the box of shells (25, not a single one fired) up and put it in the back of my ammo stash. I will probably never use it.
__________________
Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)
Dr.Rob is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 06:18 PM   #11
jmr40
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 7,961
I believe in using the largest projectiles possible in a shotgun. I'd start with 00 buck at the top of my list. If I were to ever run out of 00 Buck, I'd go though my shotgun ammo and pick the next largest size left in my inventory and work down.

I'd choose steel BBB's, BB's or #2's over lead #8 any day. But I'd not pick any as my 1st choice.
__________________
Most people don't really want the truth.

They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth
jmr40 is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 09:21 PM   #12
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,153
Steel T shot will shoot right through a goose inside 40 yards and leave an exit wound. Geese are big, tough birds. That's why I use a 10 gauge with steel T on 'em. But, I'd rather be able to go back to 3" 12 gauge lead BB if I had my druthers.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old March 12, 2015, 10:19 PM   #13
Virginian
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 7, 2003
Location: Evangeline, Louisiana
Posts: 3,582
Gonna be hard to ignore a ban if the ammo is no longer made. Ban lead because it's environmentally unfriendly. Then ban steel because it's 'armor piercing'. Makes sense to the Obamanites.
__________________
What could have happened... did.

I would not trust Remington's dating service accuracy as far as I could throw my truck.
Virginian is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 05:27 AM   #14
USAF_Vet
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Hastings, Michigan
Posts: 4,496
Virginian, in the back of my mind, this was rolling around. If they can get any sort of traction with rifle or pistol rounds, it's not a stretch of the intellect to assume they'd go after shot shells as well. The paranoid in me, though, says there is an easier way to go after shotguns, and that is to rescind the "sporting purposes" exemption on shotguns and they snap back to destructive devices.
__________________
Quote:
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
- A. Einstein
USAF_Vet is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 11:21 AM   #15
Sav .250
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 5, 2007
Location: Central Fla
Posts: 2,737
Size for size...............home defense.................. at a given range..... the target is put down! Even the bang sounds the same...
Sav .250 is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 11:23 AM   #16
TimSr
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 13, 2015
Location: Wayne co. Ohio
Posts: 221
Quote:
At living room distance, a 12 ga will put a rat hole in you, no matter what shot size you are using.
Pretty much sums it up! I'm partial to #4 myself.
TimSr is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 12:32 PM   #17
Pyzon
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 22, 2009
Posts: 322
Quote:
At living room distance, a 12 ga will put a rat hole in you, no matter what shot size you are using
I disagree, and offer a description of a high school classmate's face that tried to end it with a 12 ga. load of 7.5 lead shot.

The intended result was unsuccessful, and his appearance reminds me of The Walking Dead.....and this from a range of maybe 4"....

Light weight shot performs poorly, whether due to size or material, when compared to heavier. Why would you not choose the best ?
Pyzon is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 12:43 PM   #18
Fred Fuller
Moderator
 
 
Join Date: March 26, 2004
Location: AL, NC
Posts: 20,608
Bismuth, or Tungsten, or Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote, etc. would be better then lead, and far better then steel.

^^ This ^^

In a pinch you use what you have or can get ... I don't own any steel shot loads because I don't hunt where it is required, but given my druthers I use hard lead alloy plated 00. If someone would make a full velocity HeviShot load of #1 buck (in FliteControl wads, while I'm wishing) I would sure like to try that.
__________________


MINDSET - SKILLSET - TOOLSET - IN THAT ORDER! -with props to COL John Boyd, USAF
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/john_boyd/
Fred Fuller is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 03:46 PM   #19
jmr40
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 7,961
Quote:
At living room distance, a 12 ga will put a rat hole in you, no matter what shot size you are using.
If bird shot is all you have, then make the best of it. Yes, it has worked, but I think it foolish to plan on using it when buckshot is available with no down sides.
__________________
Most people don't really want the truth.

They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth
jmr40 is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 05:54 PM   #20
Virginian
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 7, 2003
Location: Evangeline, Louisiana
Posts: 3,582
A 14 year old girl in the Dakotas ended two bad guy's lives when they broke in with her Daddy's 870 and two trap loads. When the newspeople asked her what she was thinking she replied "Shouldn't be too hard. A LOT bigger than a clay pigeon." I loved it.
__________________
What could have happened... did.

I would not trust Remington's dating service accuracy as far as I could throw my truck.
Virginian is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 09:19 PM   #21
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,153
Quote:
A 14 year old girl in the Dakotas ended two bad guy's lives when they broke in with her Daddy's 870 and two trap loads. When the newspeople asked her what she was thinking she replied "Shouldn't be too hard. A LOT bigger than a clay pigeon." I loved it.
Bwaaaaaa, ha, ha, ha! Classic!
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old March 13, 2015, 10:12 PM   #22
Sheepdog1968
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 2,598
I see no reason to worry. I am sure I can find some kind of shotgun ammo that would do the job. Plus if lead were banned there would be a market for buckshot made out of other metals.
__________________
RIP Loui Awerbuck. I will truly miss not being able to take more of your classes.

Gunfacts.info Best website I have ever seen regarding gun facts and figures for your discussions with others.
Sheepdog1968 is offline  
Old March 14, 2015, 01:59 PM   #23
g.willikers
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Posts: 652
Self defense, whether it's in the home or elsewhere, is more about knowing how to fight than the ammo choice.
At the distances being considered here, just about any weapon would probably do.
Steel shot should not let you down any more than any other.
If the first one doesn't do the job, keep shooting and aim better.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't no how permanent."
g.willikers is offline  
Old March 14, 2015, 04:45 PM   #24
rule303
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 1,379
Did you ever shoot something hard with your BB gun as a kid? The steel BB's ricochet like crazy, and sting pretty good when launched from a Red Ryder at 350fps. Imagine a couple hundred of them shot at 1300fps ricocheting off of everything inside the house...
__________________
01 FFL in East Central MN www.rockcreekoutdoors.net
rule303 is offline  
Old March 14, 2015, 05:33 PM   #25
Shadow 7D
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 30, 2008
Location: Frozen North
Posts: 7,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by rule303 View Post
Did you ever shoot something hard with your BB gun as a kid? The steel BB's ricochet like crazy, and sting pretty good when launched from a Red Ryder at 350fps. Imagine a couple hundred of them shot at 1300fps ricocheting off of everything inside the house...
^^^
This, in HD, the 'secondary' and 'collateral damage' is NOT something you can just shrug about, after all, how would you feel if you, yes, defended your family, but put your wife, or childs eye out with a ricochet? What the famous line that Ralphie get told???
__________________
Quote:
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Shadow 7D is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.