Quantcast
how common is this problem? - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Shotguns

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 24, 2015, 12:53 PM   #1
bullseyebob47
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 2, 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 120
how common is this problem?

i was at the range shooting mossberg 12ga 500 pump with these buckshot:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/159...ProductFinding fiocchi 4 buckshot.

shot several and liked the patterns up to 25 yards. but one time i didn't pump the empty shell out right after shooting and the extractors must have slipped off the rim of the shell or the shell expanded and was stuck in the chamber. i had to pump it about 8 times before the extractors caught it and ejected.

so can i blame the problem on not pumping right after the shot, blame ammo, blame gun, or is it just the nature of pump shotguns? this is for home defense, kinda important.

i need to say that i do unload my shotguns and rub some ballistol in the chamber every couple months even if i haven't shot them. they are not rusty.
bullseyebob47 is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 01:20 PM   #2
g.willikers
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Posts: 884
How old is the shotgun?
If it's got lots of experience, maybe the extractor springs are getting tired.
Or maybe the ammo is suspect, with too small a rim.
How does the gun act with other ammo?
If it happens again, instead of lots of pumping trying to extract the empty case, use a ramrod to see if the empty case is actually stuck in the chamber.
Whether or not it is could be a clue as to what to look for.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't no how permanent."
g.willikers is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 01:37 PM   #3
gamestalker
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 10, 2008
Location: SW Arizona
Posts: 8,681
There could be a few different causes for that to have happened. Ultimately, and for what ever reason, the extractor managed to slip off the rim of the shell.

Now as for the possible causes, it could have been that the extractor was dirty, brass, grit, or other debris prevented it from completely engaging / grabbing the rim.

Is this a new 500? If so did you clean the barrel, bolt, and extractor before shooting it?

Was the chamber dirty? If you had run a bunch of shells through it without cleaning, that could certainly contribute to the problem.

Is it possible that the shells might have been gritty / dirty?

Also, the chamber may be a bit rough or the extractor may have a weak spring.

Some shells can cause extraction problems also. Some don't have brass bases and will sort of fuse to the chamber wall. I don't know about Fiocchi, but I've had a similar problem with all my 870's using Winchester Universals, in which they would had to be tapped out with a cleaning rod, but the extractor didn't pull off the rim.

If the problem happens with other shells, I would replace the extractor spring, and polish the chamber with some 0000 steel wool and solvent. Put the steel wool on a cleaning brush with a short section of rod, chuck it in a drill and polish it up nice and smooth. I had a 500 that was pretty rough when new and solved the problem in this manner.

Hope this helps you diagnose the problem.

GS
gamestalker is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 01:38 PM   #4
oneounceload
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 24, 2008
Location: Hot and Humid FL
Posts: 14,615
Most likely a steel base that got heated, expanded, and did not return back to normal. That can happen with any brand using steel bases, even cheap target ammo.
__________________
"Support our troops; we'll need them to overthrow our government"

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Thomas Jefferson
oneounceload is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 02:38 PM   #5
bullseyebob47
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 2, 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 120
yea the shotgun is kinda old but that was the only time that happened out of a few hundred shells. are federal buck/slugs brass based? i read that somewhere. would those swell less?

would low recoil federal buck have less chance to swell? i have the 34 pellet low recoil for hd.

Last edited by bullseyebob47; April 24, 2015 at 02:44 PM.
bullseyebob47 is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 02:51 PM   #6
Virginian
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 7, 2003
Location: Evangeline, Louisiana
Posts: 3,640
I will say that in my experience your problem is much less common than the one of a shell not ejecting when you tried to immediately after firing. Often if you let a cheap hull cool it will then extract. Of course if your barrel was hot, that might have contributed to the problem, too. All the other potential issues are real too, but occasional problems with a Mossberg 500 with one type of shell only says shell issues to me.
__________________
What could have happened... did.

I would not trust Remington's dating service accuracy as far as I could throw my truck.
Virginian is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 02:56 PM   #7
rcmodel
Contributing Member
 
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Location: Eastern KS
Posts: 53,743
Quote:
shotgun is kinda old but that was the only time that happened out of a few hundred shells.
Then Maybe the bolt needs a good cleaning under the extractors.

If you don't want to dissemble the bolt and remove the extractors and springs?
Solvent soak, then pick at it with a wood toothpick or dental pick and get All the crud out of it.
Also pick out the extractor cuts in the barrel face.

But it would be better to drive out the roll pins and actually clean the extractors & springs and spring cavities in the bolt.


And the steel wool chamber polishing would be a real good idea too.

It my be fouled with carbon and plastic residue making sticking more likely.

rc
__________________
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Or all your primers in a glass jar!
rcmodel is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 03:07 PM   #8
Sheepdog1968
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 2,801
I haven't had that problem. I shoot weekly with my mossberg. As others have said, give it a good cleaning. If it happens again with a different brand of ammo give Mossberg a call. Turn around time was less than three weeks to fix a minor problem for mine.
__________________
RIP Loui Awerbuck. I will truly miss your insight, openness, humility, and training. The world is diminished by your passing.
Sheepdog1968 is offline  
Old April 24, 2015, 04:43 PM   #9
oneounceload
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 24, 2008
Location: Hot and Humid FL
Posts: 14,615
A magnet will easily tell you if you have real brass or just brass-washed steel. They all expand, but brass retracts faster than steel. Cleaning everything can't hurt and might help as well.
__________________
"Support our troops; we'll need them to overthrow our government"

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Thomas Jefferson
oneounceload is offline  
Old April 27, 2015, 07:22 PM   #10
bullseyebob47
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 2, 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 120
its fiocchi shells's fault. i found a box of spent shells of all brands. spent federal, winchester, and remington go in and eject out my chamber smoothly and easily. spent fiocchi shells have to be pushed in all the way and do not eject most of the time.

don't buy fiocchi for defense! or hunting.
bullseyebob47 is offline  
Old April 28, 2015, 07:21 PM   #11
oneounceload
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 24, 2008
Location: Hot and Humid FL
Posts: 14,615
Having shot thousands of Fiocchis with never an issue with feeding or extracting.
__________________
"Support our troops; we'll need them to overthrow our government"

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Thomas Jefferson
oneounceload is offline  
Old May 19, 2015, 12:12 PM   #12
bullseyebob47
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 2, 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 120
i ordered a box of 25 rounds of spartan 00 buck for $11 at sg ammo. how do these function in your shotguns?
bullseyebob47 is offline  
Old May 19, 2015, 02:50 PM   #13
Virginian
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 7, 2003
Location: Evangeline, Louisiana
Posts: 3,640
There are NO hard and fast rules for shotgun shells. I have seen Winchesters with no powder. Some Remingtons with no lip on the base. Federals with apparently reduced powder charges because they were shooting over a foot low and wouldn't punch thru the pattern paper and a piece of cardboard backing. Some Activs with dud primers. Any manufacturer can produce a bad box, bad case, or bad lot. All the glowing testimonials in the world won't change this one iota. They are made on automated production lines and occasionally they mess up. I have messed up one... maybe two, handloading.
__________________
What could have happened... did.

I would not trust Remington's dating service accuracy as far as I could throw my truck.
Virginian is offline  
Old May 19, 2015, 05:31 PM   #14
Fred Fuller
Moderator
 
 
Join Date: March 26, 2004
Location: AL, NC
Posts: 20,835
There are NO hard and fast rules for shotgun shells

Is that ever true.

Inspect carefully ANY ammunition you plan to use for serious purposes before loading it into the firearm.
__________________


MINDSET - SKILLSET - TOOLSET - IN THAT ORDER! -with props to COL John Boyd, USAF
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/john_boyd/
Fred Fuller is offline  
Old May 19, 2015, 11:44 PM   #15
VA27
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 5, 2006
Location: Slovenly Manor, Dungheap-Upon-The-Hill
Posts: 1,757
I've had problems in the past with Fiochi buckshot in an otherwise reliable 870. I'd say your gun doesn't like it.
__________________
-The United States already has a national gun policy. It's called the Second Amendment.-

-The NRA is my Union-
VA27 is offline  
Old May 20, 2015, 02:33 PM   #16
entropy
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 9, 2004
Location: G_d's Country, WI
Posts: 1,625
Fiocchi is usually hot stuff, maybe a warning to replace some parts....
__________________
No plan survives first contact with the enemy
entropy is offline  
Old May 20, 2015, 05:52 PM   #17
expat_alaska
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Location: Pe Ell WA
Posts: 114
Really?

Quote:
shot several and liked the patterns up to 25 yards. but one time i didn't pump the empty shell out right after shooting and the extractors must have slipped off the rim of the shell or the shell expanded and was stuck in the chamber. i had to pump it about 8 times before the extractors caught it and ejected.
...or you may have short-stroked it, but that only explains the empty shell not ejecting.

I'll buy into your scenario if the magazine was empty at the time of this continuous pumping action.

If there was at least one loaded shell in the magazine when you performed this action, you would have had a loaded round on top of the shell lifter after racking the slide the first time, impinged under the bolt, and that would have not made for an easy 2nd racking of the slide.

So, enlighten us as to the specifics, please?

Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand, sir.

Jim
expat_alaska is offline  
Old May 20, 2015, 07:45 PM   #18
bersaguy
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 5, 2011
Posts: 36
Yup, I have that problem with my 500, regardless of ammo. Several times I've taken my Mossberg to the sporting clay course and after about 100 rounds it gets gummy, then if I keep going I'm rewarded with a stuck shell. Well it may not be entirely regardless of ammo, usually use federal or Winchester bulk target loads, which my not be the cleanest stuff available, but either way, take it all the way down, clean the bolt, rails, the whole shebang, and she's up and running good as new. I have noticed the longer I have it, the less of a problem it is, must be getting worn in (maybe 1200-1500 round count) Also, check the chamber for rust before shooting, I've had that cause a stuck shell years ago in an Ithaca, back in my responsible youth, from not properly cleaning my gun after a wet day of hunting.
bersaguy is offline  
Old May 21, 2015, 09:02 AM   #19
bullseyebob47
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 2, 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 120
the magazine was empty
bullseyebob47 is offline  
Old May 21, 2015, 09:20 AM   #20
oneounceload
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 24, 2008
Location: Hot and Humid FL
Posts: 14,615
Quote:
after about 100 rounds it gets gummy, then if I keep going I'm rewarded with a stuck shell. Well it may not be entirely regardless of ammo, usually use federal or Winchester bulk target loads,
Gummy?? As in "I use WD-40 on my guns" gummy, or something else. Cheap ammo is steel, not brass. Steel expands like brass in the chamber, but sometimes it doesn't constrict back like brass does...ANY decent gun should go WAY past 100 rounds before that happens anyway.
__________________
"Support our troops; we'll need them to overthrow our government"

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Thomas Jefferson
oneounceload is offline  
Old May 21, 2015, 10:29 PM   #21
bersaguy
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 5, 2011
Posts: 36
Not WD40 gummy...I don't use WD on internals, its just powder fouling, seems to get in between the receiver and extractors mostly. What it feels like is when I bring the slide back, it starts to want to bind up as the slide comes all the way back. After a little while longer, i'll have a shell that just sticks in the chamber. I assume its just from being dirty, as cleaning (with hoppes #9 and a little CLP) resolves the issue. But, then again this is my first Mossberg, and first shotgun that I ever bought new. All my other shotguns are well worn used, or hand me downs. I'll typically go through 100-125 rounds in about 2-3 hours out on the course, so its hot and filthy when it happens
bersaguy is offline  
Old May 21, 2015, 10:39 PM   #22
bersaguy
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 5, 2011
Posts: 36
Actually, never thought about it, those are steel rounds ive been using. I'll have to get some brass target loads and put it through its paces and see if I get the same results. Either way, as a left handed shotgunner, think it might be time to trade the 500 in on a left-handed Remington or an Ithaca, always liked the bottom ejection on my 16ga featherweight, but shooting 16ga on the clays course will land me in the poorhouse
bersaguy is offline  
Old May 21, 2015, 11:14 PM   #23
Plinkin' Logs
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 23, 2014
Location: You didn't see anything
Posts: 96
Another thing is that Fiocchi is a European 12ga, which is spec-ed differently from North American 12ga. Namely European shells, are .725, while US specs are .729. This can cause minor headspace issues and stuck shells on some US shotguns that tend to be a bit looser in their tolerances (.805 diameter chamber as opposed to .800). European 12ga shells also tend to have a slightly thinner rim the US 12ga, but I don't know the exact measurements.
__________________
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Plinkin' Logs is offline  
Old May 22, 2015, 10:22 AM   #24
jaguarxk120
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 30, 2011
Posts: 623
Why is the action getting so dirty?

Could it be those lowrecoil/ sub-sonic rounds that operate at lower pressure? The case does not have enough pressure to seal against the chamber walls and powder gasses are blown back into the action?

The Fiocchi shells are loaded to SAMMI spec's. You have no idea what pressure levels those "trick" shells are loaded to. I would expect the cheaper valu-pack stuff loaded to minium pressures to.

After shooting all the dirty stuff then shooting a Fiocchi shell it is understandably that it will be stuck in a dirty chamber or action!
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.