Quantcast
On Fighting Shotguns.... - Page 16 - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Shotguns

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 19, 2012, 06:52 PM   #376
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
 
 
Join Date: December 20, 2002
Location: MD.
Posts: 13,938
Like Lee said.
Dave McCracken is offline  
Old January 19, 2012, 08:36 PM   #377
skeptical_in_Ohio
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Posts: 140
And I'm rapidly learning why Lee gets listened too...

On the Pardner Pump, here's a review that made me think it might be a good choice. I'm not in a huge hurry, so I have the luxury of thinking it all the way through...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ctor-12-gauge/

Thanks for the insights.

Dave
skeptical_in_Ohio is offline  
Old January 20, 2012, 12:49 PM   #378
skeptical_in_Ohio
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Posts: 140
In the end, I went with Lee's original advice - found (finally) a barrel that wasn't within $50 of the delivered & FFL transfer fee price of an entire NEF/H&R/Whatever they're naming it Pardner Protector.

I'll put the 18" barrel on my 870 12-gauge, along with one of those buttstock shell holder sleves from Allen. 00 Buck will be the load.

I might get a light and a bracket later, once I figure out and get comfortable with the new kit.

The long barrel will be cleaned, oiled and kept in a sleeve to be brought out from time to time to shoot at clays.

Thanks everybody for the advice (especially Lee).

Last edited by skeptical_in_Ohio; January 20, 2012 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Changed a wording...
skeptical_in_Ohio is offline  
Old January 21, 2012, 10:50 AM   #379
Fred Fuller
Moderator
 
 
Join Date: March 26, 2004
Location: AL, NC
Posts: 19,250
Hope it works out like you want it to, Dave. And I hope you never need it.

But get used to using it under pressure, just in case you ever need to. If you can swing a full blown shotgun class, Louis Awerbuck is still the shotgun Yoda as far as I'm concerned. Randy Cain is very good, as is Clint Smith, John Farnam and Tom Givens. The thing about shotgun guys is that there are a lot of local instructors who can teach a very creditable class on running a defensive shotgun, who will never have the national/international reputation that short list has. But finding out about the local guys is more difficult. With the short list folks, there's no doubt what you are getting, and most of them travel and teach classes all over the country.

Stay Safe,

lpl
__________________


MINDSET - SKILLSET - TOOLSET - IN THAT ORDER! -with props to COL John Boyd, USAF
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/john_boyd/
Fred Fuller is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 07:56 AM   #380
Highgate
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 7, 2012
Location: Worcestershire, England.
Posts: 47
Hi,

I'm in the UK where we can have a maximum SG mag capacity of TWO cartridges i.e. three total.

I only shoot foxes, to protect the chickens on our small farm.

Guns are almost banned here but I obtained a shotgun licence about two years ago.

I bought a 870 12 ga pump action and an A5 Browning 3" magnum 12 ga semi-auto. Both full choke with 28" barrels.

I soon learned a few things:

* slings are a pain

* heavy guns such as the A5 are a pain

* you need to go out into the field in rain and gloom for an hour or so at a time to REALLY find how the gun suits you

* autos & pump actions are essentially unsafe - I now see why they are banned from public shooting sites in the UK ... double barrels only permitted.

* Autos are fussy about ammo - they sulk and jam at the first opportunity

* Foxes are FAST and cunning - in my orchard you need to be holding the gun up, cocked and loaded with the safety off to have any chance of a good shot. A very tiring posture to maintain as you walk around!

* Crossing fences with loaded shotguns can be dangerous

* An unloaded weapon CAN in fact be loaded!

* You need to find a brand and size of ammo that suits you and your gun - and stick to it! Buy it by the case!

* Add-ons might seem cool & useful - but the only add-on I have kept is an ammo saddle ... don't forget that we have just two shots in the mag here.

* 00 buckshot is too lethal for UK field use - the pattern fails early so you miss the target but the lethal lumps of lead keep going on and on ...

* You can adapt to heavy recoil - but it takes weeks rather than minutes or hours

Summary: I started off with magnum-itis and gadget-itis. A typical male techie approach to a new hobby!

However I now simply use the 870, no sling, always loaded with 42 gr US BB semi-magnum (hard to find in the UK - we have different pellet sizes).
Good knockdown, large number of pellets, long range, short unfired case so I can fit two in the mag ... but killer recoil.

I simply practice a lot so I whatever I aim at I can usually hit.

I started off pining for a black plastic quasi-military supergun firing 65 gram tungsten loads ... but some real life experience has shown me that practising a lot in the dark, cold & wet (the UK!) with a plain 870 firing a big handful of BB is a far more realistic route.
Highgate is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 04:23 PM   #381
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
 
 
Join Date: December 20, 2002
Location: MD.
Posts: 13,938
Thanks for posting Highgate. I was stationed in Essex for a while in the 60s. I comprehend "dark,cold and wet".

A couple things about your few things.....

Autos and Pumps are NOT inherently unsafe, but they do require more training and attention.

Foxes in the UK, unless they all have gone on Steroids since I was last there, run elss than 10 lbs. Before I'd use those loads, I'd go with something like 1 1/4 oz of 4s.

And A5s are great for when you do not have to carry them a lot.
Dave McCracken is offline  
Old March 8, 2012, 05:02 AM   #382
Highgate
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 7, 2012
Location: Worcestershire, England.
Posts: 47
>> Foxes in the UK, unless they all have gone on Steroids since I was last there, run less than 10 lbs. Before I'd use those loads, I'd go with something like 1 1/4 oz of 4s.

I'm really a rifle shooter but I can't face the legal paperwork needed to get a licence in the UK ... the shotgun licence application is stringent enough!

I think that this has made me keener on the bigger evil cartridges with full choke rather than the 'normal' cartridges.

I have tried all sorts of cartridges sizes and loads - but I only started having fun when I discovered semi-magnums!

A lot of farmers around here seem to favour the SAGA 2.75" semi-magnum 44g in a US size which must be close to #4 ... maybe a tad heavier. The recoil is also heavy with this one - but it certainly does the business!

I started with the excellent SAGA round, but I finally settled on the US BB size for a variety of techie reasons :
* A UK study on shooting foxes showed that the UK BB (US #1) was a tad too weak and the UK AAA (#T) had too few pellets. The US BB fits fight in between those two sizes.
* The US BB has a surprisingly long range.
* US BB comes in star crimp cases so I can fit two in the UK restricted capacity magazine. AAA (#T) only comes in a longer RTO case so only one will fit in the mag.
* US BB can be loaded up to around 44g in a 2.75" case - but AAA (#T) is limited to 36g due to pellet packing issues.
* I have done some computer analysis which shows that US BB lies at the optimum point where penetration and pattern fail together. Any bigger, and the pattern fails but the pellets are still dangerous. Any smaller and the pellets run out of steam before the pattern fails.

Based on my research I then imported some US BB into the UK. To be frank I expected to be disappointed - practice never lives up to the theory.

However in this case I was very surprised to find that US BB suits my needs 110%. Long range, heavy knockdown, accurate (after much practice).

The downsides? A bit expensive, plastic wads, heavy recoil, rather high chamber pressures. I have now got used to the heavy recoil so I can shoot straight without flinching ... but the recoil broke the receiver mechanism of a single barrel I was using.

In a different legal world I would use a rifle - but this shotgun combination is the closest I can get to having serious shooting fun!

(I have tried 50gm UK BB in a 3" magnum ... not good : the pattern failed spectacularly. The 'boom' is however impressively stupendous! I might stupidly consider taking a 2.75" shot without ear defenders ... but a 3" magnum? No way!)
Highgate is offline  
Old March 8, 2012, 07:42 PM   #383
jump
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 8, 2012
Posts: 2
870 shooting 5's

Someone a little while ago wanted to know what kicks gobbling thunder to use shooting 5's 665 works great with 5's

Last edited by jump; March 8, 2012 at 07:44 PM. Reason: typed 865 oops not
jump is offline  
Old March 8, 2012, 09:10 PM   #384
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
 
 
Join Date: December 20, 2002
Location: MD.
Posts: 13,938
This thread IS about fighting shotguns. Please post a new thread further down....
Dave McCracken is offline  
Old March 8, 2012, 09:52 PM   #385
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 28, 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 4,853
I no longer have a shotgun. It was my fighting/HD/zombies/whatever but I felt as though a rifle would do everything I would want a shotgun to do but more. I'm just not a shotgun guy really.
__________________
Why are we allowed to own cars that can go over 100 MPH? Who, besides the military and police, needs to have a race car? Many people die each year from race cars, we don't have a need such high powered cars so they should be banned. Those that own race cars think that they are Vin Diesel and are dangerous to society.
FIVETWOSEVEN is offline  
Old March 9, 2012, 09:54 AM   #386
bassdogs
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 18, 2011
Location: Dale Hollow Lake, KY/TN
Posts: 216
What ever floats your boat. If you are a rifle guy, I say what the hey! Personally I don't see the use for an AR or AK in anything but a ZHtF Zombie attack. My simple 870 tactical meets all my needs; firepower, knockdown power, varity of ammo choices, multi uses, cost to own and shoot.

My vote is the 870 but have to throw in for all the simple, basic, short barrel pumps. Only your ego needs anything more.
bassdogs is offline  
Old March 9, 2012, 03:02 PM   #387
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 28, 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 4,853
5.56 and 5.45 penetrate less walls then buckshot so it certainly has a valid use in Home Defense. I'll get another 870 and 1100 someday but that day is not today.
__________________
Why are we allowed to own cars that can go over 100 MPH? Who, besides the military and police, needs to have a race car? Many people die each year from race cars, we don't have a need such high powered cars so they should be banned. Those that own race cars think that they are Vin Diesel and are dangerous to society.
FIVETWOSEVEN is offline  
Old March 9, 2012, 03:26 PM   #388
Highgate
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 7, 2012
Location: Worcestershire, England.
Posts: 47
Quote:
Personally I don't see the use for an AR or AKMy .... simple 870 tactical meets all my needs; firepower, knockdown power, .... Only your ego needs anything more.
Interesting point. A few years back I saw a post on a survivalist board, where all sorts of exotic firearms were being discussed.

One poster then said something like "Hey, I have just an 870 with 400 rounds of 00 buckshot. If I need to fire that many I'll be dead anyway."

A fairly valid point? If you need more than a couple of shots from a shotgun when TSHTF then maybe you should be thinking of hiding or running?

No individual can expect to defeat a truckload of armed gangsters ... even if the defender has the latest wizzo rifle available.
Highgate is offline  
Old March 9, 2012, 03:41 PM   #389
armoredman
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 19, 2003
Location: proud to be in AZ
Posts: 15,569
I will join the shotgun owning world next week. I will be using a CZ 712 Utility autoloader with extended mag and ALS adjustable stock. I haven't owned a shotgun in YEARS, so this will be interesting to say the least. After watching the new generation of 712 go through a few thousand rounds without a glitch in testing with Tom Knapp, I feel confident it will work well as HD and maybe even 3 gun if I can EVER find a match close by. Reviews and pics posted when it get's into my hot little hands.
__________________
If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

http://czfirearms.us/ The original CZ Forum, new address.
armoredman is offline  
Old April 29, 2012, 10:12 PM   #390
spaniel
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 19, 2012
Posts: 35
I'm still curious why pumps and semi-autos are inherently unsafe....
spaniel is offline  
Old April 30, 2012, 10:18 AM   #391
bassdogs
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 18, 2011
Location: Dale Hollow Lake, KY/TN
Posts: 216
They aren't, but maybe some of the shooters are because they are too focused on multi shots. Not a fan of auto loaders, but whatever floats your boat on that one. A pump is only going to cycle one shell until you rack another round. The typical OU is just like an auto, 2 trigger pulls and 2 shots, so I'm thinking the UK has this one wrong.

My 870 18" now carries 2 #4 buck followed by 5 OO buck with whatever I feel like in the stock sleeve. Main practice is the quick cycle motion and the reload after a couple of rounds. The point of aim is pretty much a no brainer at 25 yards or less.
bassdogs is offline  
Old April 30, 2012, 09:15 PM   #392
azgun
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 16, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 94
The best recipe in my opinion is reliable, fast, 18"-20", decent light, and 6-8 capacity, bead sight, pump action
__________________
Deuteronomy 20:3 and shall say unto them: 'Hear, O Israel, ye draw nigh this day unto battle against your enemies; let not your heart faint; fear not, nor be alarmed, neither be ye affrighted at them;
azgun is offline  
Old May 4, 2012, 02:27 PM   #393
lobo9er
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 8, 2009
Location: Earth, Currently
Posts: 2,799
..................................../////////////////////////////////

Last edited by lobo9er; May 5, 2012 at 08:29 AM.
lobo9er is offline  
Old May 16, 2012, 01:53 PM   #394
memphismark
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 10, 2012
Location: LA/Orange County CA.
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmodel View Post
Fighting shotguns with all the TackyCool stuff bolted on them are kind of neat looking.

But then you got to figure some old man with a 6-7 pound bird or skeet gun is twice as fast.
And several times more likely to get the first shots on target.

rcmodel
That's an interesting point. I do keep 2 birdshot shells in my 2 side saddles to 'compliment' my 00 buck. memphismark
__________________
"Anyway, thats my opinon, oughta be yours". Author unknown.

Why do I carry a 45. Because they don't make a 46!
memphismark is offline  
Old May 16, 2012, 02:27 PM   #395
Telekinesis
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 23, 2011
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmodel View Post
Fighting shotguns with all the TackyCool stuff bolted on them are kind of neat looking.

But then you got to figure some old man with a 6-7 pound bird or skeet gun is twice as fast.
And several times more likely to get the first shots on target.
rcmodel
That's an interesting point. I do keep 2 birdshot shells in my 2 side saddles to 'compliment' my 00 buck. memphismark
I don't think that's what he meant. I could be wrong, but I believe that rcmodel also advocates the use of some arrangement of buckshot/slugs for HD. What rc probably meant was that the guy who spends years shooting at moving targets every weekend is going to be a much better shooter regardless of what gun he has when compared to a guy who spends all his money on cool looking junk to hang on his gun.

Kinda why I think if the zombie apocalypse ever does come, the safest place would be at a trap/skeet range with a bunch of ATA shooters. They always have a lot of ammo on hand and when you're used to hitting small 6" disks flying on their side at 45 mph, headshots are easy.

Bird shot in a HD shotgun is a liability unless your expected intruder is winged, feathered, and has webbed feet.
__________________
-TK, ΛΧΑ ΘΑ 1071
"It is the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in, and to punish with exceptional severity all members of their own race who have warmed their hands at the invader's hearth" - Winston Churchill
Telekinesis is offline  
Old May 16, 2012, 10:47 PM   #396
IMTHDUKE
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 27, 2004
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 946
Have the Stoeger Double Defense coach sxs 12ga with ported barrels and light on rail. Has green fiber optic sight. Have the Mossberg 930spx coming next week. That should hold down the fort till John Wayne arrives/
__________________
http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com
Ed Brown Kobra Carry | HK P7M8, P2000sk , P30s |Sig P239SAS, 1911 C3, P238, P938 | Colt Defender, Mustang Pocketlite, 1911 |Rohrbaugh R9 |Kimber Covert Ultra II, | Browning HP, Buckmark 22LR(suppressed)| Walter PPK(1966) | Kahr PM9 Black Rose |S&W M&P
IMTHDUKE is offline  
Old May 21, 2012, 12:33 AM   #397
PabloJ
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Posts: 4,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creature View Post
Every Navy ship I have served on was equipped with 870's.
The 16ga Ithaca 37 'Deerslayer' is perfect all around gun. It would make fine deer shotgun, skeet gun, grouse gun and riot gun. Now you too know the secret.
PabloJ is offline  
Old May 25, 2012, 03:21 PM   #398
Sniper 51
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 27, 2010
Posts: 8
On Fighting Shotguns

Dave M.

Just recently purchased an Ithaca 37 featherweight, very rough but at the gunsmith now. He says internally it's gonna make a nice one. It's an older model with the slam fire feature. I have an 870 with 2 barrels, one being 20 inches. My question, What is your recommendation for this 26 inch barrel. Should I leave it alone or cut it down? I'm thinking it might be a little long for a fighting shotgun but wonder if I will regret just cutting it off.
Sniper 51
Sniper 51 is online now  
Old May 27, 2012, 01:52 PM   #399
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
 
 
Join Date: December 20, 2002
Location: MD.
Posts: 13,938
It's a whole 1.5" longer than the legal Fed minimum.

One of my HD 870s has a 20" barrel. Works very, very well.

Contrary to a lot of Netmyth, a shotgun's effectiveness has little to do with OA length.

A 20" barreled vintage 37 strikes me as a nigh perfect HD tool...
Dave McCracken is offline  
Old May 29, 2012, 06:37 PM   #400
FruitCake
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 27, 2009
Location: Hartford County, CT
Posts: 336
I ended up putting all kinds of junk on my 870 for like 1 month. Side saddle +6 and +2 extension. Ended up taking all that junk off. The thing turned into a tank and just took the fun out of shotgunning.
Its all back to original except a little mount for a light and sling.

It took me learning the hardway but i did.
Guess im just hardheaded but i had to experience it for myself.
FruitCake is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.