On Fighting Shotguns.... - Page 20 - THR

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Shotguns

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Thread Tools
Old January 7, 2014, 02:34 PM   #476
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 407
If we're talking about fighting shotguns, (or any shotguns for that matter), I'm not sure how one would be expected to hold a flashlight at arms length away from their body while maintaining any sort of useful grip on a shotgun for any length of time. I'm of the opinion that a weapon mounted light is more effective.

That cowboy action shooter's reloading method is neat, and she sure is quick with it - lots of practice I'm sure. But again, I hardly think someone is going to be holding 2 shells in their offhand palm, and two more shells in between their remaining fingers. Useful for a shooting course perhaps, but I don't see this method being employed in a fighting situation.
tiamat is offline  
Old January 7, 2014, 03:29 PM   #477
Join Date: February 14, 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,041
That cowboy action shooter's reloading method is neat, and she sure is quick with it - lots of practice I'm sure. But again, I hardly think someone is going to be holding 2 shells in their offhand palm, and two more shells in between their remaining fingers. Useful for a shooting course perhaps, but I don't see this method being employed in a fighting situation
It could work in a fighting situation (or a similar method, juggling all those shells at once wouldn't make sense in a fight). The shells don't start in her hand, they come from her belt holder. Something goes bump in the night, grab the shotgun. No immediate need to shoot? Take 3 seconds to snap the belt on that was stored next to the shotgun.

I have a similar idea going on, but it isn't a belt, nor is it for shotgun. I have a bullet proof vest under my bed with one side attached so I can put it on with one hand. It has an empty pistol holster, AR magazine, pistol magazine, spare light and flex cuffs.

If I don't have time to grab it, no loss it just sits there under the bed, that's life. If I do have time, it seriously upgrades my protection and response capability.

The molle "war belts" can be a handy and inexpensive way to keep some spare ammo, light, cell etc. handy for quick donning if given a chance.

Again, no downside, you grab gun/light 1st anyway then proceed from there. Heck, if I could afford it and had the time, I'd kit up in full armor, helmet, and night vision with flashbangs. The threat posed by multiple armed persons in a structure is the same in your house as in a house in Iraq or Afghanistan. Multiple armed threats are multiple armed threats, I want every advantage I can get to survive.

...I guess I'm on the opposite side of the "I have an old revolver in the nightstand to scare them off" camp I've oft-encountered with casual gun owners.
"If you think you are going to be in a violent situation...make it violent!" -TargetFocusTraining
NRA Instructor/Life Member
Kettlebell Exercises!
strambo is offline  
Old January 7, 2014, 08:32 PM   #478
Join Date: May 11, 2006
Location: Deep East Texas
Posts: 1,696
That cowboy action shooter's reloading method is neat, and she sure is quick with it - lots of practice I'm sure. But again, I hardly think someone is going to be holding 2 shells in their offhand palm, and two more shells in between their remaining fingers. Useful for a shooting course perhaps, but I don't see this method being employed in a fighting situation.
Certainly...holding multiple shotshells in the offhand is a 'gamers' technique not appropriate for real world self defense, BUT the practice of taking a single shotshell and loading it directly into the receiver does have merit.

Ideally, you'd like to find (or maintain) cover AND have enough time to completely reload your weapon (once shot dry), but you might only have time to load a single round before needing to address a threat. In situations such as that, feeding a shell directly into the receiver and then chambering it....can be done quite swiftly.

It can be accomplished from over the top or from underneath the receiver. I prefer coming from underneath since the transition from the receiver... back to the forearm is easier/faster (for me).

Are you likely to 'shoot your weapon dry' in the average home defense scenario, who knows? But... it is an easy skill to learn and I want to have as many 'tools' in my box as I can...if I am unfortunate enough to have to defend myself or family.
Flintknapper is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 12:43 AM   #479
Join Date: August 24, 2005
Posts: 614
This is kind of interesting.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (146.8 KB, 162 views)
EmGeeGeorge is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 11:11 PM   #480
Fred Fuller
Join Date: March 26, 2004
Location: AL, NC
Posts: 20,969
Stevens 311-R, to be specific. They were factory made for the purpose.


Fred Fuller is offline  
Old May 12, 2014, 02:44 PM   #481
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Posts: 4,288
I picked up 12ga 1942 Ithaca that US Government bought for $31.61. It was shipped to Raritan Arsenal after purchase. I have no use for this gun, but piece of history is kool thing to own for sure.
LGS has 20"? CYL choked fixed barrel (often called non-takedown by fans of the brand) Winchester 1897 riot gun. It has Winchester plus other stuff struck on the slide rail so it's real ole' boy. The gun has hole drilled near heel of stock long ago likely to keep it falling off rack which would happen if gun was carried in rail car for security detail use. That gun is kool too.
PabloJ is offline  
Old July 29, 2014, 02:19 AM   #482
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Posts: 8
Well, it took me an hour and a half, but I got through the whole thread. LOL

I've owned several types of shotguns over the years. Some are more fun/comfortable for me to shoot than others. My current favorite is the Saiga 12, but that doesn't mean it's what I choose for HD. Yeah, the Saiga is very fast and I'm able to use it fairly well, but I still look to my Mossberg pump for home defense. Fairly minimal on accessories too, not like the Saiga.

I have a little bit of a special consideration when it comes to what works for me and what doesn't. 25 plus years ago, while in the Military, I received a 12 ga wound to my right palm that took out the wrist and part of the forearm. My hand was touching the muzzle when it fired (attempting a disarm on a BG). They were (miraculously) able to save the hand, though I have limited use/grip. Being right handed, I had to learn to do more stuff with my left hand, including shooting.

With a fused right wrist, I almost REQUIRE a pistol grip stock if I'm going to attempt shooting with my right hand. Otherwise, I'd just have a finger or thumb inside the trigger guard without having a hold on the stock. So I tend to fire things left handed. Of course, this makes getting a good grip on the forend difficult (hardly any strength in right hand). I'm looking at a pistol grip on the forend, but haven't liked any of the ones I've handled yet. I'm open to suggestions.

Reloading for me is typically done with my "strong hand", though that may be against most instructor's teaching. I end up dropping more shells trying to use my offhand to load than anything. I do OK handling magazines with my offhand, but that's more for rifles than shotguns. As I mentioned, I enjoy shooting my Saiga 12, but I don't know that I'd be prone to grabbing a couple extra mags when I hear something go bump at 3AM. So my Saiga stays in the gun safe.

My HD Mossberg started out as the 500 breacher PGO setup, but having used a PGO shotgun before, I wanted to change that out ASAP. The breacher 500 reminds me of the 590, in that it has a thicker barrel and the 590 style magazine cap, only it's in an 18.5" length. Just an observation.

I added a +1 choate mag extension and "enhanced" safety tab, as well as velcro on the left side to accept a "side saddle", though I typically don't have one mounted. Still debating a weapon mounted light. It currently has a pistol grip choate (I think) stock on it. Without going to a folding stock, I'm not familiar with any other stock that also has a PG on it. Suggestions? I'd be willing to go with a folding style, though I doubt I'd ever have it folded. LOL

Thanks for the informative thread.

Last edited by Corbin; July 29, 2014 at 02:23 AM. Reason: I suck at spelling.
Corbin is offline  
Old August 2, 2014, 01:08 PM   #483
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 2,925
The way I have seen, was trained a shotgun used with a handheld light is by using a Harries technique in which the forearm rests on the wrist. If you need to pump, you then simple invert your wrist and pump as normal with the flashlight still in your hand. In doing so, the bulb, beam of the flashlight is pointing at you. It is not ideal but neither is a gunfight. Yes, a weapons mounted light on long guns is the best way to go.
RIP Loui Awerbuck. I will truly miss your insight, openness, humility, and training. The world is diminished by your passing.
Sheepdog1968 is offline  
Old August 10, 2014, 03:04 AM   #484
Join Date: August 10, 2014
Location: Hidden Valley, AZ
Posts: 41
An old friend for a desert dweller

20-year or so old 590 Milsgun, flat finish wood full stock. 9 rounds, simple sling, nothing else added. Usually fed with high-pellet OO buck.

Kinda' beat up nowadays, many miles in a truck and lots of toting.

It's dispatched wild dogs, snakes, and settled one argument without firing.

It's brother (70's vintage Monkey Wards) lives in the other part of the house.

Conelrad is offline  
Old October 23, 2014, 10:25 PM   #485
Join Date: September 27, 2014
Posts: 65
Benelli M4 - more fight in it than hopefully I'll ever need, and then some...

Titanium 7 round tube and charge handle. Mesa tactical stock, fore-end and side saddle.

With a little illumination...
cgrutt is offline  
Old November 24, 2014, 08:13 AM   #486
Join Date: May 12, 2011
Posts: 92
On Fighting Shotguns....

My basic living situation has a lot to do with how I have my hd shotgun set up and why I think it's fitting that way for my particular situation...
Living situation- single. Urban apartment in a normal/decent neighborhood. 1 roommate (he has a shotgun under his bed). We both have serious girlfriends that stay the night frequently and have their own keys. I have a great alert dog that's 50 lbs.
My HD shotgun is set up with a light and extra ammo. No sling. It's not meant for clearing rooms. Fortunately the floor plan of my current home and bedroom is pretty "HD friendly" given my circumstances (location of my room compared to doors, windows, hallways and location of HD gun(s) compared to my bed and where I keep put my keys, wallet and cell phone.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416834873.088672.jpg

Last edited by theblakester; November 24, 2014 at 08:19 AM.
theblakester is offline  
Old January 1, 2015, 11:31 AM   #487
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 62
As far as a fighting shotgun I have tried most available options out there, but I am no pro shooter and this is just my take. I prefer semi auto's over pumps because they are faster and recoil less. The downside is the semi's can jam considerably often. As for my favorite, it is easy, vepr 12 all the way. I simply love my vepr 12. For pumps, I would avoid new remington 870's, I had a huge number of problems with mine, and the 870 that replaced the first bad one. I like the mossberg 590's.
wford is offline  
Old March 14, 2015, 03:14 AM   #488
Join Date: April 27, 2010
Posts: 3
Benelli Supernova FDE

Use an 870 at work, but got a SN for play. Great factory sights, very accurate with slugs. Light/med weight but recoil is fine. Love it.

montanafan is offline  
Old March 31, 2015, 01:01 PM   #489
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 2,925
As for pumps vs semi autos, my understanding is that the true advantage of the semi auto is one handed operation. As for reliability, the only semi autos that I have personally seen that seem reliable consistently are the Benelli M4s. Personally, I prefer a pump.

A pump can be shot faster than a semi auto. I saw Scott Retiz do this a number of times with his 870.

Revolvers can also be shot faster than a semi pistol. Most folks don't have the level of training to do so and in that case the semi auto options can appear faster.
RIP Loui Awerbuck. I will truly miss your insight, openness, humility, and training. The world is diminished by your passing.
Sheepdog1968 is offline  
Old April 6, 2015, 11:14 PM   #490
Join Date: November 19, 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,466
I can slam fire my Winchester Model 12 to where it sounds like a fully automatic.
Cooldill is offline  
Old May 8, 2015, 12:42 PM   #491
Join Date: May 20, 2010
Posts: 770
A double barreled, double triggered mechanical device is dependable and in either 12 or 20 effective!
A pistol back-up is necessary but how many offenders can you expect?
maybe the double barrel will dissuade them all?
ZVP is offline  
Old May 9, 2015, 08:28 PM   #492
Join Date: December 25, 2002
Location: The Free State of Arizona
Posts: 1,263
My fighting shotguns include a Norinco 12ga double 20" hammer gun, a Mossburg 590A1, and a Benelli M4.

The hammer gun is loaded and still leaning against my headboard. On my nightstand is my secondary weapon a railed 1911with a surefire light & DG switch.

Go figure.

“To lead untrained men in to war, is to waste them.” - Confucious
"Training errors are recorded on paper, tactical errors are etched in stone." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
“We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” - Ayn Rand
Semper Fi
chieftain is offline  
Old May 16, 2015, 03:37 AM   #493
Join Date: May 13, 2015
Posts: 47
I trust my life to my 870 with 1B, I wouldn't mind an M4 in the future though, I love boomsticks for their stopping power and versatility
Gun & Optic Tool

thegunpunch is offline  
Old May 22, 2015, 01:25 PM   #494
Mr. Standfast
Join Date: May 16, 2015
Posts: 6
Jeff Cooper's idea of the ideal home defence gun for a householder with no leisure interest in shooting, who would leave the thing unattended for years at a time, was a double hammer gun with tape over the muzzle to stop anything setting up home there. It is instantly available, no springs at all have to be left tensioned all that time. and it is a whole lot less dependent on shooting skills which that sort of user will have forgotten or never learned.
Mr. Standfast is offline  
Old May 22, 2015, 08:08 PM   #495
Join Date: May 18, 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 694
Good theory until said untrained shooter picks the thing up in a panic, shoves their finger into the trigger guard, thumbs back the hammer and prematurely fires it.

Nothing is idiot proof. If you aren't going to maintain some level of baseline proficiency, guns may not be the best option.
BLB68 is offline  
Old May 25, 2015, 10:16 AM   #496
Join Date: May 24, 2015
Posts: 173
870 Express Supermag turkey gun.
23" vent rib, Remchoke (imp cyl in it).
Used it for dove (shot 50%) many times.
Synthetic stock.
Has had detents removed in case I want to run an extended mag.
I prefer them without such things.

Have had a few Wingmasters w deer bbls in the past, even an old Police model.

Find them to feel better with no ext mag.

Bought my turkey gun used, super cheap, thing runs great. I abuse it and it still looks new.
Hookeye is offline  
Old May 25, 2015, 01:53 PM   #497
Join Date: November 19, 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,466
I was in the shed the other days and dusted off the old oily Model 12 riot gun. Racked the slide a few time, and you know what, I thought to myself. I says, self, this here old oily Model 12 riot gun is a pretty gun. I'll have to shoot it this summer. VERY good defense gun.
Cooldill is offline  

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.