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Old October 12, 2008, 03:17 PM   #126
John C
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Jimbo the 5th;

I think that a shotgun in a defensive role is more like a rifle than a traditional shotgun. In a defensive situation, you won't be swinging the gun at flushed birds, but more focused on slower moving targets (violent attackers).

I know for my defensive shotgun, I have rifle sights and shoot slugs almost exclusively. Even when I shoot buckshot, I'm not shooting at running deer, but usually steel targets or mechanically moving targets at a more lumbering pace. Shooting a fleeing target is not a good shoot, where I live.

Finally, if you practive every day with your rifles, why not use those, or something similar. I realize a scoped 7mm mag weatherby isn't the best HD weapon, but perhaps a similar, more HD weapon would be a better fit? I know that, for me, the shotgun is a better fit due to the decreased range of slugs vs. rifle bullets.

-John
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Old October 12, 2008, 05:12 PM   #127
JImbothefiveth
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What about adding a ghost ring sight, and still aiming it like a rifle if the need arises, but using buckshot?
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Old October 12, 2008, 10:27 PM   #128
John C
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Jimbo;

That's exactly how I have my 870 set up. I have ghost rings and an 18.5 inch barrel with a cylinder choke. Although I typically shoot slugs, even when I shoot buckshot, I shoot it like a rifle. The only effective difference between the two, in my setup, is the spread of the buckshot.

Not to take anything away from those who use the traditional bead, but I think it's been conclusively shown that rifle sights allow for longer shots, due to the precision of the sights. Of course, for tradional shotgunning, rifle sights are useless because shooting birds is a four-dimensional problem, and shooters need to instinctively understand what their shotgun will do to connect a column of shot with a bird in flight.

-John
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Old October 14, 2008, 03:01 PM   #129
BigBuckMaster
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My tatical Shotty

mine is a 870 with 22' barrel and a Knoxx stock ( knoxx.com ). i have a four shot extection (8+1) and a 3 point sling. its not too heavy. the barrel is rifled and i use it for deer, turkey, duck, geese.

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and that is why we need our skatter guns, our 1911A1s, and out AR's.

Last edited by BigBuckMaster; October 14, 2008 at 05:32 PM.
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Old November 2, 2008, 09:38 PM   #130
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Kudos to Dave

As a long time police firearms instructor, who has trained hundreds of officers in the use of shotguns, and a short time member of THR, listen to Dave...he knows what he's talking about.

Keep it simple...a plain RELIABLE pump shotgun loaded with buckshot is all you need out to 25 yards. Keep barrel lenghts at 20" or shorter. Stay away from M4-type telescoping stocks. Our agency went to them and they were a disaster; more recoil and significant point of impact issues.

Like Dave says...spend your money on a good basic shotgun class and ammunition instead of fancy do-dads, and remember when practicing you don't have to shoot buckshot every time the trigger is pulled. The key is learning the fundamentals of shotgun shooting, knowing the laws about using deadly force in your particular state, and practice. At short ranges, there is no more devastating weapon than a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot.

Great advice Dave...keep up the good work.
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Old November 2, 2008, 09:52 PM   #131
Dave McCracken
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Thanks.

And more thanks for your service. Firearms Instruction is a tough, dangerous business but as needed as air.
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Old November 3, 2008, 12:53 AM   #132
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Went to see my wife's family last weekend. Her aunt and uncle told a disturbing story. Seems earlier that week the "bad kid" living in the house behind them, in the nice neighborhood they lived in for 20 years, finally got too bad for their peace of mind.

19 yr old went to a house 2 miles down the road and did a B&E. It was 11 in the morning, he cut the phone lines, and entered while the homeowner was there. They found out about it in the police blotter in their local paper. They said the homeowner confronted the boy, and he fled. Got himself arrested later that day. That's all they know, but it was enough.

Uncle comes to the family gathering to tell me what he was considering for around the house. You guessed it, a pistol grip only 12 gauge.


Lots of talk ensued among the "men in the garage". It was a big family gathering, after all. Talk ranged from telling him either how awesome it was, to how he'd never want to shoot a shotgun in the house. It'll make you deaf, and destroy the drywall, don't ya know? My wife's dad even encouraged him to get a .22 rimfire revolver, loaded with birdshot. Because it'll either scare him off, or if you miss it won't damage the walls as bad.


I decided to ignore that conversation. I simply called his wife the next day and had a long talk. Because you see, women don't have the egos men do about such things. And they aren't ashamed to admit they don't know anything about guns.

After our conversation she decided to try a double-barrel coach gun. She's willing to use a gun to defend her family. But after our talk she recognized she's not committed to putting in the time to learn how to operate a pump shotgun.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with a short double-barrel. For people who aren't gun enthusiasts, which includes a LOT of Americans, a simple gun they know how to use is much more effective than the best whiz-bang shooter they don't.

I wouldn't feel under-gunned with a double barrel in my home. Not for a second.
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Old November 3, 2008, 08:14 AM   #133
Dave McCracken
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Undergunned?

Heck, no.

Not my first choice, but I know how to run a double.
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Old November 8, 2008, 09:58 PM   #134
rem1
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shotgun have been used in ww1 as a trench gun as in the model 10 t and used very well i might add i think everbody should know how to use one
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Old November 17, 2008, 09:56 AM   #135
fireman 9731
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I recently purchased an 870 HD model.
18 inch barrel with magazine extension, synthetic stock and bead sight.
hard to beat HD wise when stacked with slugs and 00 buck, and a ton of fun blasting clays right out of the house!
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Old November 18, 2008, 06:07 PM   #136
gnut
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Hello all,
I already have an 870. Wood furniture, standard capacity, 20" open cylinder that should be fine, but, I WANT an auto. Which is best/recommended? No 2000 dollar special purpose tacticool just fun to train with and fast. Recoil is an issue as I will use 12 gauge only, and repetitively. Thanks for any suggests.
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Old November 18, 2008, 07:21 PM   #137
Dave McCracken
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Welcome, Gnut. Try an 1100. While there's better autos out there, the 1100 is a proven performer with lots of stuff available.

It does require some parts replaced periodically.
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Old November 18, 2008, 11:49 PM   #138
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Stank You Smelly Much. That is what I had come to on my own. The advice is appreciated. What parts and why?
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Old November 19, 2008, 10:12 AM   #139
Dave McCracken
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O rings and springs. I'd replace the ring on signs of wear or 10K rounds, springs 10K.
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Old November 19, 2008, 09:56 PM   #140
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Thank You.
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Old November 20, 2008, 11:31 AM   #141
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gnut, You should look at the new Mossy 930 tactical series. Pretty basic and bare bones with an affordable price tag.
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Old November 29, 2008, 12:06 AM   #142
vanceman
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Hey, Marine!

Thank you, Army.
You knocked some sense into these civilians.
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Old November 30, 2008, 05:47 AM   #143
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My house gun is a Norinco coach gun side by side 12 bore. Open choked. Two loads of number six reside in the barrels. I live in a tiny ass log cabin, with less than 600 sq ft. It is more than effective.
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Old December 2, 2008, 10:29 PM   #144
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The only thing "wrong" with a double barrel is capacity, unless Im mistaken. Personally, I think the pump shotgun is best for this situation. Easy, reliable mechanics...generally good capacity (depending upon brand/configuration) and recognized by any wannabe felon....."clack,clack". Oh...and I love, love, love ghost ring sights.
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Old December 2, 2008, 11:10 PM   #145
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Some of us don't necessarily believe giving away our position and armament is a positive. I like my fighting firearms ready to go.
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Old December 3, 2008, 08:36 PM   #146
inSight-NEO
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Quote:
Some of us don't necessarily believe giving away our position and armament is a positive. I like my fighting firearms ready to go.
I certainly understand the validity of this statement. However, due to the way I store my shotgun I essentially have no choice but to rack it in order to bring it into service. If someone hears me, oh well..at least they will know what they are potentially up against. I cant think of too many people willing to get shot by anything, much less a shotgun, merely to rob me of my goods. If they feel game, let them come.

Either way, I do not necessarily condone the mindless racking of the pump merely for "intimidation" purposes; nor do I plan on sneaking around my potentially invaded house like some type of commando. If I need complete mobility, I will just grab my pistol. If I want to barricade myself in my bedroom until the cops arrive, it will be with a shotgun in my hands.

I could go on and on about this...Regardless, I stand by my original statement that pump shotguns are best for practical home defense, if you take a handgun out of the equation. This is just my opinion though. We all know what opinions are like....

Last edited by inSight-NEO; December 6, 2008 at 12:08 AM.
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Old December 3, 2008, 08:40 PM   #147
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Well, your position certainly sounds well-considered. I think, with almost everything, there is no single right or wrong answer.
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Old December 12, 2008, 06:11 PM   #148
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Quote:
WANT an auto.
Are autoloading shotguns really faster than pumps, if you use the pump to help get your gun pointed at your target?
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Old December 13, 2008, 07:55 AM   #149
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Thumbs up Back in the old days - the late 1960's-1970, whenever

I was under arms, I carried an old M12 Winchester trench gun. I was "out and about" mainly at night, and the old 12 made me feel very secure.

I have tried many civilian shotguns over the years and keep coming back to the Mossberg 500. I have one right now that serves as both a weapon and a hunting gun. I have found them to be reliable, sturdy, easy to clean and maintain, rugged and inexpensive. I bought mine used for $150 with a vent rib accuchoke barrel, added an 18.5" 3"chamber barrel with a front bead, and a nylon ammo bandolier to hold shells. I like to keep it basic.The less there is, the less there is to go wrong.

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Old December 13, 2008, 08:46 AM   #150
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Jimbo, autos may be faster, but it's not cut and dried. As with all weapons, the operator is the crucial element.
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