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Old December 26, 2008, 04:46 PM   #151
looserings
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Join Date: December 26, 2008
Posts: 6
Thumbs up Home Defense Shotgun

First, keep it simple . . . a basic 12 gauge pump shotgun with an 18 or 18.5" barrel and brass front bead site is enough to get you started. A ghost-ring sighting system is, in my opinion unnecessary unless, you are only shooting slugs and even then, requires more time to obtain a sight picture . . . time that may make the difference between life and death. A magazine tube mounted flashlight and/or side-saddle shell holder should be considered. Then, shoot several different brands of 00Buck and determine the brand that gives you the pattern you feel meets your particular needs. Then, consider how you are going to secure your shotgun at home in a way that prevents unauthorized use but, is quickly accessible if and when it is needed to stop a threat. And finally . . . practice, practice, practice. Know how to clear jams (should this ever occur), quickly. My comments are based on 30 years of law enforcement plus as a LE Firearms Instructor. Good Luck!
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Old December 26, 2008, 11:41 PM   #152
chuckusaret
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Join Date: December 6, 2008
Location: West Palm Beach Florida
Posts: 1,606
I tricked out a Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 ga 20" barrel with every after market goodies, Knoxx folding stock, Choate forend pistol grip, light, shot saddle, ghost sights, sling, shot follower, threaded barrel and a breecher. Was a big hit at the range but was found to be not functional for home defense. Too heavy, goodies got hung up on everything, now its back to original. I will remember the acronym "KISS" in the future.
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Old December 26, 2008, 11:50 PM   #153
DRZinn
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Location: In a pot of water, 200 degrees and rising slowly....
Posts: 3,991
Mine has a folding stock and a sling, and I'd like to add a light, but that's it.
__________________
"...there's always somebody else out there that needs to be whacked"... MajGen James Mattis, to Co G, Third Battalion, Twenty-Third Marines, in Al Kut, Iraq, July 2003

What I do.
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Old December 27, 2008, 12:03 AM   #154
inSight-NEO
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Quote:
A ghost-ring sighting system is, in my opinion unnecessary unless, you are only shooting slugs and even then, requires more time to obtain a sight picture . . . time that may make the difference between life and death.
I have ghost-ring sights on my shotty and therefore, I must disagree with this statement. Given the hectic nature of an HD situation, most people wont have time or inclination for a quality "sight picture". Rather, point and shoot may just be the necessary technique. In this situation, getting the front sight (the front sight doesnt lie) on the target will lead to effective results. Sure, it will not be as accurate or pretty as a true "sight picture", but...well...you get the idea. Either way, this is probably less of a concern with shotguns vs handguns. Im all for GR sights....I believe they allow for greater versatility and frankly, I think they are just a "quick" as beaded or rifled sights, IMHO.
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Old December 27, 2008, 09:38 AM   #155
Dave McCracken
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NEO, IMO GR sights are not as quick as a bead, but the difference is indeed small. As the range opens up, GRs become a better choice.
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Old December 28, 2008, 07:12 PM   #156
DJ901
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mALFUNCTION

Brand new gun malfunction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Christmas gift from my wife this year was a brand new Mossberg 590. She purchased it on the 20th and I went to shoot it for the first time on the 27th at the range where she bought the gun. I put in five rounds and when I got to round three or four I noticed nothing was happening. I finally got a spent round and the other rounds out of the gun and took it to the front desk because it wouldn't hold the shells and they wanted to have it looked at in a couple of days by the gunsmith, saying that it just needed lube.
I told them if they needed to do anything more than lube the gun and If they have to repair anything on the gun I want it replaced with a new gun seeing as how it was obviously defective when it was sold less than a week prior and clearly never was worth 700 dollars in that condition. I'm not looking for a refund. Is that right for me to feel that way?

And if they just needed to lube it can't they do it while I stand there and watch?
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Old December 29, 2008, 09:10 AM   #157
Dave McCracken
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DJ, troubleshooting over the Net is problem laden. However, a common problem with new guns is they are covered with a preservative that needs to be removed before shooting.

Take it apart as much as possible using the manual. Scrub off the gunk, then relube and put it together. Betcha it'll work now.
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Old December 29, 2008, 09:56 AM   #158
DMR
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Quote:
After our conversation she decided to try a double-barrel coach gun. She's willing to use a gun to defend her family. But after our talk she recognized she's not committed to putting in the time to learn how to operate a pump shotgun.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with a short double-barrel. For people who aren't gun enthusiasts, which includes a LOT of Americans, a simple gun they know how to use is much more effective than the best whiz-bang shooter they don't.

I wouldn't feel under-gunned with a double barrel in my home. Not for a second.
I'm re reading a old Law & Order issue, May 1975 by Massad Ayoob on the Police use of doubles. Interesting article from the past on shotguns for social work.

Quote:
Conclusions

In terms of tactical firepower, the double barrels shotgun has been obsolete for police combat purposes since before the turn of the century. the fact remains that many are still in use, and for a single, very good reason: they are more easily, more instinctively, more comfortably operated than slide action or autoloading shotguns, when the officer behind the gun is a man who handles heavy firepower only occasionaly, and whose department does not or cannot provide intensive shotgun training.
This goes on for a few more paragraphs with good points. If you just replace department with individual in the above paragraph you have a good snap shot of the "average" HD gun owner.
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Old January 25, 2009, 04:10 PM   #159
Fred Fuller
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Software trumps hardware, most of the time. All the bolt-on tacticool stuff in the world won't make anyone a better shooter- only training and practice will do that. But it isn't fun to fantasize about three days in the hot sun dragging eight pounds of shotgun around while being put through your paces at an ever increasing rate by what seems to be an increasingly demanding instructor. No, it's much easier and more entertaining to run mental movies of saving the world single handed with your oh so photogenic tricked-out shottie.

There are a few diehards here who value performance over appearance, however. And for them I offer the following links to various shotgun POIs (programs of instruction):

http://www.arm.gov/sites/nsa/870.stm

Defensive Shotgun - Remington 870 Operator's Guide

U.S. Department of Energy
Safeguards and Security
Central Training Academy

FIREARMS SAFETY
Firearms safety is as important during daily activities as during range and training activities. Observing a few precautions when handling firearms in the field can help ensure your safety and that of those around you. It will also ensure you will be ready to protect yourself if necessary.

THE FOUR GENERAL SAFETY RULES
ALL FIREARMS ARE ALWAYS LOADED. No exceptions. Don't pretend this is true; be deadly serious about it.
NEVER POINT A FIREARM AT ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET.
BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET. Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot anything that you have not positively identified.
ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONS
Upon returning to base or after completion of a training session, each weapon shall be physically examined by yourself and your partner to ensure that it is unloaded and safe.
Do not take live ammunition into the cleaning area.
Carry the gun unslung if there is any chance of a close conflict with a bear.
Always control the muzzle of your gun, even if you stumble, lose your balance, or fall.
Always be sure the barrel and action are clear of obstructions. If you fall or the gun hits the ground, snow, or ice, always unload and check for obstructions.
Never attempt to shoot out an obstruction; the barrel could explode.
To prevent plugging of the barrel, cover the muzzle with plastic wrap secured by a rubber band or tape. Bullets will shoot through this type of cover.


NOMENCLATURE
The standard Remington Model 870 is a 12-gauge, slide-operated, shoulder-fired, repeating shotgun. This shotgun may be fitted with an extended magazine tube that holds seven rounds; a side saddle that holds six easily accessible rounds; and a fore arm mounted light for dim light or no light shooting.
Barrel
The barrel is composed of the muzzle, choke, bore, forcing cone, chamber, and barrel extension. On the lower side of the barrel is the barrel ring, which slides over the magazine tube attaching the barrel to the receiver.

Fore end
The fore end contains the slide and action bars, which provide the means of cycling the action.

Bolt assembly
The bolt assembly consists of the breech bolt (with extractor and locking block) and slide.

Receiver
The receiver contains an ejection port, loading port, ejector magazine tube (with follower, spring, and retainer) and shell latches.

Trigger assembly
The trigger assembly contains the trigger, safety, action bar lock, and hammer.

Stock
A fixed stock is attached to the rear of the receiver.

Sights
The sights on this shotgun are ramp and bead. But it may be fitted with "Ghost Ring" sights. "Ghost Ring" sites have a front sight post and the rear sight is an aperture. The rear sight is adjustable for elevation and windage, which improves firing accuracy.

DISASSEMBLY
Ensure that the chamber and magazine are empty and the safety is on.
Depress the action bar lock and open the bolt approximately halfway.
Remove the magazine cap or extension tube.
Remove the barrel from the receiver.
Remove the fore end by sliding it forward and simultaneously pressing the left shell latch.
Remove the bolt assembly from the action bars.
Punch out the trigger plate pins and remove the trigger plate assembly from the receiver.
CARE AND CLEANING
Clean the barrel with the appropriate gauge bore brush, solvent, and patches.
Clean the inside of the receiver and bolt with a cleaning brush, solvent, and patches.
Brush off the trigger plate assembly. Lightly lubricate the moving parts and wipe the exterior lightly with a light lubricant, such as Tetra or Tri Flow.

ASSEMBLY
Replace the trigger plate assembly in receiver.
Slide the fore end over the magazine tube.
Replace the bolt assembly on the action bars.
Slowly slide the action bars and bolt assembly into the receiver. Depress the right and then the left shell latches to completely seat the bolt assembly in the receiver.
Depress the action bar lock and open the action.
Replace the barrel on the receiver.
Replace the magazine cap or extension tube. Make sure the cap or extension tube is tight; ir it is loose, the barrel extension and receiver may be damaged.

FUNCTION CHECK
After reassembly, a function check must be performed.
Point the shotgun in a safe direction.
Depress the action bar lock and cycle the action. The action should cycle smoothly. This ensures the action bars are not bent.
Close the action, put the safety on, and pull the trigger. The hammer must not fall.
With the action closed, safety off, pull the trigger and hold it to the rear while cycling the action. Release the trigger and pull it. The hammer must fall. This check ensures the hammer is properly engaging the sear.

MARKSMANSHIP FUNDAMENTALS
Aiming
During the aiming process, you are concerned with correctly pointing the shotgun so the slug will hit the target in the desired spot.

Sight Alignment
You achieve correct sight alignment when the opt of the front sight post is exactly in the center of the rear sight aperature. If an imaginary horizontal line is drawn through the center of the rear sight aperature, the top of the front sight post will appear to touch that line. If an imaginary vertical line is drawn through the center of the rear sight aperature, the line will appear to bisect the front sight post. To obtain perfect sight alignment, focus on the front sight post. The rear sight post will appear fuzzy.

Sight Picture
You obtain correct sight picture when the sights are correctly aligned and the front sight is placed in the center of the aiming area. This center is commonly called "center hold" or "center of mass".

Flash Sight Picture
In a close-range encounter, you get flash sight picture by quickly verifying that the front sight is on the target's center of mass.


Holding
Several factors affect your ability to hold the shotgun steady while firing. These factors are the same for all firing positions.

Grip of the weak hand
The weak hand and elbow should be under the shotgun as much as possible. The strong hand grasps the pistol grip so that the grip rests in the "V" formed by the thumb and the trigger finger.

Grip of the strong hand
The strong thumb is correctly placed when it lies along the stock, NOT if it is wrapped around the wrist of the stock. If the thumb is wrapped around the wrist, during recoil you may hit your nose with the thumb, especially in the lower positions. The trigger finger is placed alongside the receiver and does not touch the trigger until the sights are on the target. The last three fingers around the pistol grip are quite sufficient to hold the shotgun exerting a firm rearward pull to keep the buttstock in the "pocket" of the strong shoulder.

Buttstock in the pocket of the shoulder
Correct placement of the buttstock in the shoulder pocket lessens the effect of recoil and helps steady the weapon allowing faster follow-up shots. Here's how to find your shoulder pocket: raise the strong elbow above the shoulder, place the fingers of your other hand under your raised armpit, and feel for the pocket with the thumb.

Strong side elbow
Mounting the elbow when firing helps keep the buttstock in the "pocket" of the shoulder. Always mount the elbow when you mount the shotgun. If the elbow isn't kept high, the pocket disappears and the shotgun can slide out onto the shoulder or biceps.

Stockweld
By consistently placing your cheek against the stock in the same place each time, you maintain a consistent relationship between the sights and your eyes. This consistency leads to increased accuracy. When a shooter's cheek is placed firmly against the stock, the shotgun and the shooter recoil together. This reduces the amount of time needed to recover between shots and aim again.

Lean into the shotgun
The action of bending your forward knee and leaning into the shotgun helps you make faster follow-up shots. Keep your rear leg straight, allowing it to act as a shock absorber.


Squeezing (pressing)
This is the act of manipulating the trigger, causing the shotgun to fire. This can and should be done without disturbing the alignment of the shotgun to the target. During the firing process, increase pressure straight to the rear on the trigger while maintaining sight alignment and sight picture. When you compress the time required to squeeze the trigger, this is called a "compressed surprise break."

Follow through
Following through means continuing to apply the fundamentals of marksmanship after firing a shot. This helps ensure good shot placement and allows quicker follow-up shots if necessary.


ZEROING
Shotgun sights should be adjusted so that the point of impact is the same as the point of aim. A shotgun should have a 50-yard point of aim, point of impact zero. The definition of a zero is:
The sight setting, in elevation and windage, required to place a shot or group of shots in the center of a target from a specific range with no wind blowing.
To adjust the sights, (1) fire a round, (2) loosen the rear sight with the Allen wrench, (3) move the sight in the direction that you want the impact to move, i.e., move the sight left to move the impact to the left, move the sight up to move the impact up, etc.
LOADING
Half load
In this configuration, the chamber is empty and the magazine tube is loaded with the desired number of shells. Half load as follows:

Point the muzzle in a safe direction, ensuring that the chamber is empty with the safety on. (The safety remains on throughout the entire process.)
Close the action.
Hold the shotgun with its ejection port up.
Obtain a shell and hold it in the strong hand with the brass end against your thumb.
Bring the shell to the front of the trigger guard. Using the trigger guard as a guide, slide the shell forward into the loading port.
With your thumb, push the shell forward into the magazine until the shell rim engages the shell latches.

Full load from half load
Point the muzzle in a safe direction with the safety on. (The safety remains on throughout the entire process.)
Depress the action bar lock.
Cycle the action.


CHAMBER CHECKING
Use this procedure whenever the chamber's condition needs to be checked.
Point the muzzle in a safe direction with the safety on. (The safety remains on throughout the entire process.)
Depress the action bar lock and slightly open the action.
Visually check the chamber for a shell.
In low light, use a finger to feel for a shell.
Close the action.

UNLOADING
From half load
Point the muzzle in a safe direction with the safety on. (The safety remains on throughout the entire process.)
Depress the action bar lock.
Pull the fore-end all the way to the rear. This moves the first shell from the magazine onto the shell carrier.
Roll the shotgun to the right, which allows the shell to roll out of the ejection port.
Push the shell carrier up until it stays up and turn the shotgun upside down.
Depress the shell latch located on the ejection port side of the gun. This will release a shell from the magazine through the loading port.
Continue until the weapon is unloaded.
Visually and manually inspect the chamber and magazine to ensure that they are empty.
In low light conditions, use a finger to feel the chamber and magazine tube.

From full load
Point the muzzle in a safe direction with the safety on. (The safety remains on throughout the entire process.)
Depress the action bar lock.
Ease the fore-end slowly to the rear until the front of the shell just clears the forward edge of the ejection port.
Remove the shell.
Pull the fore-end all the way to the rear. This moves the first shell from the magazine onto the shell carrier.
Roll the shotgun to the right, which allows the shell to roll out of the ejection port.
Push the shell carrier up until it stays up and turn the shotgun upside down.
Depress the shell latch located on the ejection port side of the gun. This will release a shell from the magazine through the loading port.
Continue until the weapon is unloaded.
Visually and manually inspect the chamber and magazine to ensure that they are empty.
In low light conditions, use a finger to feel the chamber and magazine tube.

Half load from full load
Point the muzzle in a safe direction with the safety on. (The safety remains on throughout the entire process.)
Depress the action bar lock.
Ease the fore-end slowly to the rear until the front of the shell just clears the forward edge of the ejection port.
Remove the shell.
Pull the fore-end all the way to the rear. This moves the first shell from the magazine onto the shell carrier.
Roll the shotgun to the right, which allows the shell to roll out of the ejection port.
Close the action, and then chamber check to ensure that the chamber is empty.


CONDITION-ONE MALFUNCTION: FAILURE TO FIRE
The trigger is pressed and the hammer falls without the weapon firing.
Causes
Failure to cycle action.
Defective ammunition.

Indicators
The hammer drops and you hear a click.

Clearance
Identify the malfunction.
Cycle the action.


CONDITION TWO MALFUNCTION: FAILURE TO EJECT
This condition-two malfunction is also known as a smokestack or stovepipe. The spent shell will remain in the ejection port, usually with the shell sticking out the side.
Causes
Failure to fully cycle the action.
Worn or broken ejector.

Indicators
Slack in the trigger.
Case partially ejected.
Open breech.

Clearance
Identify the malfunction.
With the weak hand, reach under the receiver and attempt to strip the case from the port. You may need to cycle the action to clear. Rolling the weapon slightly to the right while cycling the action may assist in clearing the weapon.
Close the action.
Return the weak hand to the proper position and attempt to fire.


CONDITION-THREE MALFUNCTION: FAILURE TO EXTRACT
This condition is sometimes called a double-feed, meaning the spent case has not been ejected or extracted.
Causes
Worn shell stops.
Shell stops unstaked.

Indicators
Slack trigger.
Slide won't operate forward or rearward.

Clearance
Identify the malfunction.
With a Remington 870 equipped with a flexi-tab kit, depress the action bar lock and hold it while cycling the action firmly.
If the Remington doesn't have a flexi-tab kit, the method given above in "failure to eject" may clear the weapon.
If the above method doesn't work, an alternative is
Depress and hold the action bar lock.
Hold the fore end.
Strike the buttstock firmly on the ground. Be careful not to strike the toe of the stock on the ground because this can break the stock at the wrist.
Note: Ensure the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction during the above procedure.




READY POSITIONS
Low-ready
Assume the Weaver stance.
Place the buttstock in the shoulder pocket, lower the muzzle to about a 45-degree angle, and maintain a proper grip with the trigger finger straight.
To mount the weapon from the low ready
Come to a full load.
As you raise the muzzle to the eyes' line of sight, shift focus to the front sight and obtain a correct sight picture.
Simultaneously straighten the rear leg, lean forward, and bend the leading leg slightly. This helps absorb recoil and allows faster follow-up shots.
Pull the weapon into the shoulder pocket and achieve a stockweld. The weak elbow will be under the shotgun and the strong elbow will be parallel to the ground.
Disengage the safety and fire if necessary.
Note: During a field situation perform steps 1 through 3 simultaneously.



High-ready
Assume the Weaver stance.
Raise the muzzle to the eyes' line of sight. Place the stock along your forearm and hold it roughly at waist level, depending on your build. Keep your eyes on the threat.
To mount the weapon, the stock must clear the armpit.
Raise the stock by pushing forward to clear the armpit. Pull back into the pocket of the shoulder and obtain a stockweld.
Stance and fundamentals of marksmanship are identical to the low-ready steps.



CARRIES
A sling is mandatory for every shotgun. It should be attached only to the sling swivels. Two different carries are recommended.
American Carry
The individual's weapon is placed on the strong-side shoulder, muzzle up. The strong hand grips the sling about midway.

To sling the weapon
Put the safety on.
Elevate the muzzle.
With the weak hand, grasp the sling next to the forward sling swivel.
Insert your strong arm between the weapon and the sling, allowing the sling to rest on your strong shoulder.
Release the sling with your weak hand and grasp it with your strong hand about midway up.

To dismount the weapon
Move the sling slightly outboard using the strong hand.
Reach between the body and the sling with the weak hand and grasp the fore end.
Release the sling with the strong hand as you pull the weapon off your shoulder and start the weapon toward the threat with the weak hand.
Come around with the strong hand and grasp the pistol grip.
Rotate the stock up and pull it back into your shoulder; go to a full load.
Disengage the safety and fire if necessary.
Before putting the weapon back in the American carry, ensure the safety is on.


African Carry
This carry places the weapon muzzle down on the weak-side shoulder. This carry has the advantage of protecting the muzzle during inclement weather. The weak hand grasps the fore end.

To sling the weapon
While at the low ready, release the grip of the strong hand and grasp the sling at the lower sling swivel.
Release the weak hand and extend it between the sling and the buttstock, bringing the weapon up onto the shoulder.
Release the strong hand and grasp the fore end with the weak hand.

To dismount the weapon
With the weak hand, rotate the muzzle up, twisting the weapon off the shoulder.
Bring the strong hand over and grasp the pistol grip as the weapon comes off the shoulder.
Bring the stock back into the shoulder; go to a full load.
Disengage the safety and fire if necessary.
Before putting the weapon back in the African carry, ensure that the safety is on.



STANDING
To assume this position
Address the target in the Weaver stance in a ready position.
Lean forward, bend the weak knee, and mount the weapon.
Achieve bone support by keeping the weak elbow low under the weapon and the strong elbow up to create a pocket (elbow parallel to the ground).
To absorb recoil, keep the weak knee bent and the strong leg straight.

//SNIP
__________________


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http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/john_boyd/
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Old January 25, 2009, 04:11 PM   #160
Fred Fuller
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PART 2:


KNEELING
Braced kneeling
Bone support is used to steady the weapon. The braced kneeling position offers the shooter maximum stability, and is achieved as follows:

Address the target in a ready position, at approximately a 45 degree angle.
With the weak leg, take a step forward and to the strong side (left leg to the right for right handed shooters).
Drop straight down, with the strong knee contacting the ground at as close to a 90 degree angle as possible to the weak leg. This action creates a stable firing platform.
With the weak elbow, make contact forward of the knee with the triceps area above the elbow joint. This action avoids joint-to-joint contact, which causes instability.
Pull the neck of the stock into the pocket of the shoulder, attaining a stockweld. Placement of the strong foot is optional and varies from individual to individual. Options available are:
Sitting on heel with toes curled (best for mobility).
Top of foot flat on the ground.
Foot turned on its side.


Speed kneeling
This position is unsupported but offers the advantage of speed. The speed-kneeling position is a trade off involving speed and accuracy. Limit its use to close engagements in which maximum stability is not an absolute requirement. The position is attained as follows:

With the weak leg, step forward.
Simultaneously drop the body straight down, bring the weapon up.
The upper torso remains upright.


SITTING
The open leg sitting position is the easiest sitting position to get into and the easiest to recover from. It is assumed in the following way:
While keeping the muzzle pointed downrange, extend the weak or strong hand to the rear to brace yourself.
Sit down.
Place your feet comfortably, extending away from the body.
Keep your heels on the ground.
Place your elbows on your knees.

BARRICADE
All the basics of marksmanship and position apply when shooting from behind a barricade, such as a vehicle or a wall. The following must also be considered:
Never rest the barrel on a barricade, but you can rest the fore end on the barricade.
When you are behind a barricade, ensure that the muzzle is clear before firing.

=================================================

https://www.nscc.edu/catalog/desc/sy...st/PST1050.pdf

Nashville State Community College
Police Science Technology
PST 1050
Tactical Shotgun

(Can't paste this one- follow the link)

===============================================

http://licensing.azdps.gov/shotgun4hr.pdf

ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
4-HOUR ARMED SECURITY GUARD SHOTGUN TRAINING PROGRAM
REFRESHER LESSON PLAN
April 12, 2007

(Too big to paste, at 18 pages. Follow the link...)

===============================================

http://www.pgpft.com/Def_Shotgun_Handout.pdf

Pat Goodale's Practical Firearms Training Defensive Shotgun Handout

(Too big to paste- Follow the link)

==============================================

http://www.practicalshootingacademy....hotgun_100.pdf

Introduction to the Shotgun 100 (1 Day)

 The Practical Shooting Academy, Inc.  P.O. Box 630  Olathe, CO 81425  970-323-6111 
www.PracticalShootingAcademy.com
Abstract:
The Shotgun, when used correctly, is an awesome defensive weapon. This is an entry level shotgun
course for the student who would like to learn about the safe, defensive use of the shotgun and have
little or no experience with firearms.
Cost: $185 (plus $20 range fee where applicable)
Ammunition: 75 – 100 rounds
Target Audience: Novice shooters with little to no experience
Description:
This is an entry level shotgun course for the student who would like to learn about the safe, defensive
use of the shotgun and have little or no experience with firearms. Our expert trainers take you
through a professional program of instruction on the safe use of the defensive shotgun. Useful
shooting drills help prepare you for defensive use of the shotgun.
Topics include:
 Fireams safety rules and range safety
 Safety in the home, safe storage and safe dry fire practice
 Safety and security while traveling with the firearm
 Nomenclature and useful terms
 Shotgun Action types
 Selection of the defensive shotgun
 Selection of defensive shotgun ammunition
 Patterning your shotgun
 Loading and unloading
 Fundamentals of marksmanship/Elements of Shooting
 First shots
 Shotgun Skill Builder Drills – Level 1
 Useful Shooting Positions
 Useful accessories for the defensive shotgun
 Care and maintenance
 Discussion of self defense concepts and use of force
Requirements: Eye and ear protection, notebook and pen. You may bring a firearm and
ammunition to class as long as it is considered safe.

Prerequisites: None

===================================================
__________________


MINDSET - SKILLSET - TOOLSET - IN THAT ORDER! -with props to COL John Boyd, USAF
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/john_boyd/

Last edited by Fred Fuller; January 25, 2009 at 04:34 PM.
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Old January 25, 2009, 10:43 PM   #161
Dave McCracken
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Good stuff, Lee. Thanks!!
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Old January 27, 2009, 09:54 PM   #162
projnostic
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dfariswheel I'm in awe, u da man. liked to have ya around with things pop off brother.
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Old January 29, 2009, 10:02 PM   #163
chuckusaret
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Many people have stated "When I rack the gun the BG will leave" Wrong! You just told the BG where you are and now he prepares for whatever. I believe if he was brave/dumb enough to break into your house he is brave enough to have an encounter with you. I have a round in the chamber of all my HD weapons and have no need to rack or chamber a round to alert the BG, he will be alerted when I pull the trigger.
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Old January 30, 2009, 03:52 AM   #164
amkus
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When doing a combat reload on a shotgun, what's the prefered method: over or under?
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Old January 30, 2009, 07:09 AM   #165
chieftain
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Quote:
I believe if he was brave/dumb enough to break into your house he is brave enough to have an encounter with you.
What fact or actual experience do you put your belief in? Only a fool and someone who believes some folks think some of us believe it is guarantee of the BG’s actions, states that it WILL stop them. At least as often as yelling halt or Stop. Many do stop, some don't. Any time I don’t HAVE TO SHOOT, my family and I win the biggest VICTORY.

Also I would like to see your experience or documentation as to BAD Guys winning a fire fight while attacking into what they now know is a loaded shotgun waiting for them in a foreign environment, unknown ground with either high powered lights in their faces, or near total dark coming into your kill zone?

I actually have some experience with similar scenario’s. More often than not the BG’s stop and or leave in a rush. It’s that survival thing’y going on. And if they ignore it, you just continue with their sudden and rude awakening as they step into your kill zone.

But those that have never fought or been around a real firefight with shotguns tend to not believe, as you apparently don’t or think it is a guarantee of stopping the Bad Guys. I understand.

Now try to follow through with your concept. You believe that now that the BG knows where you are, on your ground, with you in the planned defensive position that forces him into your kill zone, that he will some how have an advantage. What advantage? Unless your knowledge of your ground is weak or flat wrong, if your defense position is poorly thought out, is poorly located or your defense plan poorly executed, or you do not have the training, practice and or ability to execute your plan, as this BG comes into your kill zone. Something else is wrong. And you will have to shoot the Bad Guy. That to me is the beginning of a very bad night, IF I WIN THE FIREFIGHT! And of course a much worse one if I should lose.

Now in my scenario I give the BG one last opportunity to live. You see in my world, the Bad Guy leaving without me having to fire is the biggest Victory, FOR ME. If I have to shoot, even if I should win totally, I have been damaged.

Not because I have any sense of regret shooting or killing a Bad guy, I solved those problems years ago on my first Tour with the 3rd Marine Division in Vietnam, but because I will not have the mess to clean up, physically, fiscally, or legally. None of my family members will have to worry about possible psych or emotional problems, and I don’t make new friends with local law enforcement agencies or in our jurisdiction the County Attorney or in some cases the local Jail. And this is if I win the encounter..

If you think the only way to win is to shoot the Bad Guy, you are sadly misinformed. No fight at all is the big prize, having to shoot is at best second place, but much better than third place.

But those that have never fought or been around a real firefight with firearms tend to not believe. I really do understand.

Go figure.

Fred
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Old January 30, 2009, 12:59 PM   #166
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Keep it on The High Road, folks.
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Old January 30, 2009, 01:13 PM   #167
jdh
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Quote:
When doing a combat reload on a shotgun, what's the prefered method: over or under?
When doing an emergency load, if you go over the top and the shell misses the ejection port it goes to the ground. When you go under and miss the ejection port it falls back into your hand.
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Old February 8, 2009, 01:52 PM   #168
winnipegger
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hey guys.
recently just went to the local
hunting shop. i saw a remington express tactical it has ghost rings already on it and some type of rail?
it is a 20 inch removalable choke barrel with one of those fancy door breacher muzzle extensions. is this more junk then needed? is the express from remington junky? and can the plastic furniture be shortened a bit???
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Old February 10, 2009, 08:39 AM   #169
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Win, more than needed, though still a viable choice.

The Express is a darn good shotgun.

Modifying plastic stocks is more work than wood.

I suggest getting a short barreled Express with lumber, shooting the heck out of it and changing things as it becomes obvious they need changing.

If they do.

HTH....
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Old February 10, 2009, 09:33 AM   #170
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Cheiftan,
I've been in enough "armed conflicts" to know that there are people who are far crazier than you and me. I have seen men shot in the heart and fight on, seemingly unaware of the bullets in their chests. I have seen men totally and completely willing to sacrifice themselves to kill others. Not for any real gain, just the demise of others. The whole point of the 12 guage shotgun is, like Lee Lapin said, that it is the item where the lines cross between portability and effect. Why grab one if you aren't willing to use it?
As for hardware, I believe the only addition should be a light. The bungee sling is nice, as it is unobtrusive, and can be handy. I prefer Ghost rings for dedicated slug guns, but the 870s on house duty have short wood stocks, beads, and lights.
Best,
Steve
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Old February 10, 2009, 10:08 PM   #171
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Quote:
Chieftain,
I've been in enough "armed conflicts" to know that there are people who are far crazier than you and me. I have seen men shot in the heart and fight on, seemingly unaware of the bullets in their chests. I have seen men totally and completely willing to sacrifice themselves to kill others. Not for any real gain, just the demise of others.
I have found dedicated committed troops and combatants of every stripe are dangerous and hard to take out of a fight. Many American troops and some friends of mine have fought like lions, while in fact dying. Where and when makes little difference. What does make a difference is that even my enemies were men of honor, courage and character. The good news is that criminals have none of this.

The American Indian had a good saying: “Your enemy does you Honor”. Criminals have no honor.

They certainly exist. But with notable exception, I haven’t seen many of them in police reports, or the civil jails or prisons of this country. Even the most evil of these miscreants rarely is in a hurry to meet “Allah”. Almost to a man/woman, the criminal is somewhere along the psychopath/sociopath measure. The small percentage of others are mostly self centered and unable to control anything except their bowels, most of the time.

That is not true of warriors of ours or other cultures. Whether their cause is righteous or not, they are dedicated to a purpose.

Quote:
The whole point of the 12 guage shotgun is, like Lee Lapin said, that it is the item where the lines cross between portability and effect. Why grab one if you aren't willing to use it?
I agree. A long arm is ALWAYS the superior choice, shotgun, rifle, carbine or even pistol caliber carbine or SMG.

Where do you believe I said that I was unwilling to use it? I don’t WANT to use any weapon if I can avoid using it, and still keep my family and I safe and sound. If it can not be avoided, I will win the firefight. Far to many people seem to confuse these two and unrelated issues.

It is people that WANT to use their weapons that create issues that will be used against the those of us that support the 2nd Amendment, and frankly many of them scare me.

Quote:
As for hardware, I believe the only addition should be a light. The bungee sling is nice, as it is unobtrusive, and can be handy.
I have come to like the gun light as a back up to the hand held too. Even with a shot gun I do not find it difficult to hold a flashlight in alignment. But when all else fails, that weapon light comes in damn handy.

I am not that bullish on a sling for a shotgun used in home defense. One more thing to hang up on the usual stuff around my house.

Quote:
I prefer Ghost rings for dedicated slug guns, but the 870s on house duty have short wood stocks, beads, and lights.
Best,
Steve
This is an area I disagree with you. YMMV.

First a dedicated slug gun in my life is called a rifle or carbine. I do not believe that a shotgun is the best weapon to be used that way. I do have guns set up with Ghost rings, and have been very accurate over the years. But what can a slug gun do that a properly set up carbine or rifle cannot do better?

The shotgun is most effective at relatively close range with buckshot. Within that range, which pretty much is the same as a handguns effective range. I do want dispersion, I am not looking to duplicate the effectiveness of a rifle/carbine otherwise I would use a rifle/carbine.

My point is stretching the capability of the shotgun, is doable, but not as efficient. That is it. In side I like a shotgun, once we go and play outside, I want a rifle/carbine. If I must choose one weapon to cover both venues, I would choose the rifle/carbine.

Quote:
The Shotgun, when used correctly, is an awesome defensive weapon.
I agree. But when used incorrectly, or it’s capability is pushed beyond design parameters, it’s comparative effectiveness versus the Rifle/carbine falls off quickly. Not that it can’t do it. It just isn’t the best weapon for the job.

Yea, yea, if it’s all you have………save on the expensive accessories, and buy an inexpensive used SKS or Winchester/Marlin lever gun. That way you can choose the best weapon for the job at hand, that is my point.

Go figure.

Fred
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MINDSET - SKILLSET - TOOLSET - IN THAT ORDER! OODA -- COL John Boyd, USAF
“To lead untrained men in to war, is to waste them.” - Confucious
"Training errors are recorded on paper, tactical errors are etched in stone." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
“We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” - Ayn Rand
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Old February 15, 2009, 10:54 AM   #172
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my two dollars and fifty cents worth

First off, as has already been beaten into the dirt here, much of the aftermarket that are available to hang on guns are simply so much male jewelery that allows the owner to personalize his ride just like new rims on your stock Camero back in highschool.
As far as makes and models are concerned
There are few more reliable slide actions than a stock vintage Ithica 37. The 37 is slicker in action as well as FAR better quality of manufacture than any of the current Remingtons or Mossbergs and features an enclosed action well shielded from the elements. Ex police MP models can often be purchased for a song.
Concerning the Winchester 1897, it should not be promoted as anything but a specialist weapon. The 97' is a rather complex beast that takes extra physical effort to run as well as being rather subject to operator error that can result in accidental discharges. Further, the Chinese clones are rather trashy compared to original Winchesters. To get a Norinco anywhere close to a Winchester still means another 100.00 or more invested at a specialist gunsmith leaving one with a gun more costly than what one would have paid to purchase an actual Winchester in the 1st place in most cases.
The one great thing about the Winchester is that it is still very possible to find pre 1899 examples for around the $500.00 mark meaning you can under current law still have a decent slide action scattergun that is totally off grid and would remain so even under any of the new acts as yet proposed in Congress.
On doubles, I lean toward hammer guns, in particular late 19th century English manufacture. Now a few words do need to be stated up front regarding the strength of barrel steels. The main tenet is that all 19th century steel was not created equal and among the industrialized nations American steel was among the worst, something that was not corrected until well into the 20th century. The warnings against Damascus were primarily directed at American shotguns which used at best lower end Damascus blanks from Belgium. There have been no shortage of metalurgical tests done in England which have shown that their Damascus barrels were actually slightly stronger than their countries fluid steel barrels. In any event if you go for a double from a better English Gunmaker that has decent bores and ideally been reproofed for Nitro you have less worry than with a modern Stevens 311.
I will add that English doubles are an extremely overlooked resource by mainstream America. Snob scattergunners focus primarily on the major names such as Westley Richards, Greener and a few others but do remember that there were 100s of gunmakers scattered across the British Isles in the late 19th century. To find one cheap look to online gunshops in Britan and the former colonies, as an antique they can be shipped direct to your doorstep and even the lowest of fit of the British smoothbores is still a gigantic leap up from the best of the Bakails or Stevens guns.
Cost for a fine english double? Regularly see nitro reproofed Birmingham scatterguns well under 400.00 US online and while it may be sacrilige to some I can think of no better choice to bob back to 18" than a straight stocked English hammer double
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Old February 24, 2009, 12:51 AM   #173
2ndAmFan
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I favor the shotgun for HD, though I have other firearms. It seems to me the main things are:
1. Is your shotgun reliable?
2. Are you comfortable with your shotgun?
3. Can you hit what you're aiming at with it, even if you and/or your target are moving?
If the answers to those questions is yes, you've got the beginnings of a good HD weapon. Your mind is your best weapon; the shotgun just complements it.
I don't think I can add anything another poster hasn't already mentioned but this can't be stressed enough: Practice!

Last edited by 2ndAmFan; February 24, 2009 at 12:58 AM. Reason: forgot how to count
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Old February 24, 2009, 01:50 AM   #174
Hungry Seagull
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Mr Lee, your post on the 870 is the rulez! It rocks.

What did it was the elbow bit for me. Otherwise the gun will try to get away during firing on me.

I always am open to learning new things.

Regarding the poster who asked about emergency reloads? Well after your mag tube is empty, just tip the gun to the left lean and right hand palm the shell into the ejection point. The shell should just "Fall" right in. There is a sort of a "Thoomp" when it seats. Close action and get the target.

No intent what so ever about playing outside I like to keep things inside the dwelling. There be alot of outside coming in very quickly once it's all over anyhow LOL.
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Old February 24, 2009, 02:20 AM   #175
geologist
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Any of these will do.

Just practice, practice, practice.

And use OO buckshot.

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