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May 28, 2008, 05:43 PM
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#1 |
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Join Date: January 9, 2008
Posts: 9
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A little part of me died....why zero tolerance is a farce.
I was at the range the other day doing my civic duty and introducing two people to the finer parts of firearms. On my way out of the range to retrieve my ID and membership card I overheard a parent with his two sons. He had just taken them to rent a gun for one of his sons birthdays. They have just gotten finished with their instruction session. The father was going to buy a t-shirt with the ranges logo on the front. The shirt said "Scottsdale Gun Club" on the front and back. It did not have a picture of a firearm. When they were about to check out I heard the kid tell his father "You might as well not buy that, because I can not wear it to school, I will get suspended." Then he said "I got in trouble just for talking about the range at school."
I can not explain how bad I felt for this kid. I went to school in the same school district I think this kid did (although I don't know for sure). And before Columbine I talked about shooting with people who shared the intrest. But after Columbine happened I had the same conversation, and then was promptly excorted to the principals office. I spent the better part of an hour while they attempted to ask me what kind of guns I had at home. Through the rest of my public school career I never spoke about firearms again, for fear of expulsion. When did the leaders of the schools, and this country decide that simply talkng about shooting was a scary thing. In high school I shot USPSA and similar events, and looked at it as much as the same thing of high school football. But apparently it isn't. Exibition shooting was the most popular spectator sport in America before pro-sports were broadcast on TV. But when exactly did shooting become socially unacceptable? And I pose this question; what do we do to make it more socially acceptable? After all, it's for the children... |
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May 28, 2008, 05:55 PM
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Posts: 426
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Unfortunately, the kid's probably correct. It's a sure shame.
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A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed. |
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May 28, 2008, 06:00 PM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: February 28, 2006
Location: Sullivan County PA
Posts: 1,491
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mace85 - If it makes you feel any better our high school (public) has a shooting club. When I catch a kid drawing or talking about guns I demand to know the brand and caliber so we can have a good discussion.
Many of our kids are shooters. Many are hunters. Our dress code prohibits only obscenity, sexual vulgarity or suggestiveness, and alcohol and tobacco slogans/pics on shirts. As far as this boy being chastised fro discussing the range that is a bit too far. Even as a student he does has some rights!
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From the Constitution of the Commomwealth of Pennsylvania: The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. |
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May 28, 2008, 06:04 PM
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#4 | |
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Member
Join Date: April 11, 2008
Location: Raceland, LA
Posts: 105
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Quote:
Jeffrey |
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May 28, 2008, 06:04 PM
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#5 | |
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Member
Join Date: February 3, 2005
Location: Upper East Tennessee
Posts: 1,892
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Quote:
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Political correctness is a doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. 1911auto.org |
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May 28, 2008, 06:11 PM
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#6 | |
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Member
Join Date: July 18, 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 1,087
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Quote:
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--------------------------------------------------- The chauvinist, arrogant, jerk on the range or behind the gun counter does as much damage to the Second Amendment as Dianne Fienstien. They serve to alienate fully half of the voting base. I hold them in equal contempt. WVCDL http://forums.wvcdl.org |
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May 28, 2008, 06:36 PM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: July 25, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 690
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I recall being in 3rd grade (about 1986), I brought a electronic gun to school for show and tell. It had 3 switches: 1 shot, 2, richochet, 3 semiauto (had to like Kay Bee Toy store).... one teacher in the hallway (walking by our class) took it away and gave it to the principal. I never aimed it at anybody... being raised in a LEO family taught me better.
I got it back after school after I complained to the principal's office (I was pro RKBA even at this time... LOL) ...the "flash compensator" was broken off and I was told it had been "received" this way.... 
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May 28, 2008, 06:42 PM
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: January 9, 2008
Posts: 9
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So not only did they take your toy gun, but they made it ban compliant....
I am not trying to take advantage of the board. But please visit my newly formed blog and leave some replies about this post. I want these things to reach as far out on the internet as possbile. Thanks all.
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Please visit my blog http://mace85.wordpress.com/ |
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May 28, 2008, 06:43 PM
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#9 | |
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Member
Join Date: October 15, 2007
Posts: 1,275
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my 9 year old shoots with me all the time... frankly i have already lined up a lawyer for the time when he gets suspended for talking about going to the range with me... and you bet your ass, ill be on every news program that will interview me...
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let's face it... it's been over a hundred years and people are still arguing about relative effectiveness of .45acp vs 9mm. and it's not for lack of corpses to study. Quote:
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May 28, 2008, 06:50 PM
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#10 |
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Member
Join Date: April 12, 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,345
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Both of my daughters have regularly worn different Scottsdale Gun Club shirts to high school without incident.
None of the shirts depicted a gun, but I don't think SGC has any that do anyway. -T. |
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May 28, 2008, 06:51 PM
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#11 | |
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Member
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 23,224
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Quote:
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No tyrant should ever be allowed to die a natural death. |
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May 28, 2008, 06:52 PM
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: December 18, 2007
Posts: 2,478
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As in scottsdale AZ?
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May 28, 2008, 06:55 PM
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#13 | |
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Member
Join Date: April 12, 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
-T. EDIT: On a related note, look how many high schools in Arizona have CMP-affiliated clubs... http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubS...=OPEN&state=AZ EDIT#2: Good grief! Even Cali... http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubS...=OPEN&state=CA The hypocrisy just gets more and more surreal. Last edited by Thernlund; May 28, 2008 at 07:05 PM. Reason: And... |
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May 28, 2008, 07:00 PM
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#14 | |
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Member
Join Date: October 31, 2005
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 782
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Mekender in post 9 says,
Quote:
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It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. Thomas Sowell |
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May 28, 2008, 07:02 PM
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#15 |
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Join Date: January 29, 2006
Posts: 155
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Fortunately in the public school district where my two sons attend school this is not a problem. Both are avid shooters and hunters, talk about shooting and hunting with their friends in school quite a bit, we have taken some of their friends to the shooting range with us. My younger son in 7th grade did his science project on the effect of revolver barrel length on bullet velocity-the main concern of the teacher was that I give her assurance I would be with him at all times he was shooting
 In shop class my son made a business card holder for me in the shape of a Glock 30. My sons wear NRA shirts and gun logo shirts to school all the time with no problems.On the other hand, when they were enrolled in the local private Catholic school the second grade teacher shared with us that my son was preoccupied with killing and causing harm to animals. The weekend before I took both my sons turkey hunting with me (they were too young at the time to have their own license) and managed to kill a turkey. When they went to school the following Monday they were still so excited and had to share the story with all of their little friends-that is what the teacher was upset about. 
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May 28, 2008, 07:02 PM
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#16 |
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Member
Join Date: May 15, 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 202
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That's so sad. Not only is it totally stupid - it teaches our kids that they are not responsible for their actions - GUNS (things) are reponsible for the actions of people - which is completely wrong.
Heck, I don't know how it is now at my old school - but when I was there (early 80's) - we would carry our guns in our trucks to school (usually in a gun rack or behind the seat) because we were usually going hunting after school let out. Things have certainly changed. 
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More Guns = Less Crime |
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May 28, 2008, 07:11 PM
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#17 |
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Member
Join Date: October 22, 2003
Location: Deepinaharta Texas
Posts: 236
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Your local school board and school district are probably made up of elected officials. Get involved in the politics and start campaigning to remove unreasonable and silly restrictions. If the board members are afraid of guns, elect some who aren't. This is politics at its most basic, and you have the greatest possible influence because it's local.
If their hands are tied because of state restrictions, then your state legislators are almost as accessible. Make noise, and get other people making noise. Politicians love to jump out in front of a crowd so they can look like they're leading it - give them a crowd that's going your way!
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Roger Ritter (roger -at- rogerritter -dot- com) PP-ASEL, AGI 1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky" |
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May 28, 2008, 07:22 PM
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#18 | |
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Member
Join Date: January 24, 2008
Posts: 58
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Quote:
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Mal is, if not a Republican, certainly a libertarian; he's certainly a less-government kinda guy. He's the opposite of me in many ways. Joss Whedon, creator of Firefly and Serenity |
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May 28, 2008, 07:25 PM
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#19 | |
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Member
Join Date: July 23, 2007
Location: South East Virginia
Posts: 2,824
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I am certianly in favor of a dress code in schools, other wise you would have kids running around in rags underwear hanging out miniskirts were the bottom in 3 inches below the belly button ect ect, But I went to school with all sorts of beer logos bars bike ralleys(gun shirts didnt seem to be around then) today is just diffrent and I do not agree with everything infact the lack of being alowed to wear somthing could cover up a problem. For example say you do have a nut job planning on shooting up a school, this person might be constantly wearing some sort of death is cool shirt or the like. If some one paid an ounce of atention it could tip off a mental issue and therefore get the help process strated for this kid. And it does not have to do with guns all the time either, it could be drugs, suicide, or any other number of problems kids can develop. How would you know if you had to wear a white shirt and tan pants all the time.
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[/QUOTE]Fog Horn Leg Horn Quote:
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May 28, 2008, 07:28 PM
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#20 |
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Member
Join Date: March 22, 2008
Posts: 976
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Seems like schools are getting more and more leftist, and more and more "protective" of our youth in this country. Without a doubt, they are already far too politically correct! I also agree that dress codes are necessary, and some cultural guidance naturally needs to come from a place where children spend much of their time. But, it has been spiraling out of control for some time now!
For example: An officer I work with was recently at one of our local schools on a child abuse complaint. The parents were both unlawfully in this country, and after hearing this information our officer told his partner "it looks like the parents are both illegals". A teacher reportedly glared at him and said: "They are UNDOCUMENT WORKERS!". My shift partner smiled, then said: "no, I said ILLEGAL". Apparently the teacher then stormed off. I know that is a deviation from the gun theme, but it is just another example of how the schools don't want to ever be put in any light other than being completely politically correct. Regardless of how you feel on the immigration issue, lets face it: If you are here illegally you will be refered to as "illegal". Schools often attempt to legislate your interests: No guns in your home, no gun shirts, no talk of guns, tell parents that the kids should have no gun toys. For that matter, no GI Joe, and no television beyond a "G" rating. Teachers have a very important job, as the education level of our citizens will impact our country's place in this world. However, I don't think it is the role of the school to teach the students to follow a certain political path... Schools, at nearly every level, claim to be places where "free thought" is allowed; ironically, that only applies if your thoughts match their thoughts politically. Another example of this was a call I overheard at work one day: Dispatch was sending an officer on a Welfare Check for the Department of Human Services. Apparently some liberal case worker at that office was concerned about the fact that the child had said that a gun was in the home. She wanted us to go out there, search the home for the gun, and (if a gun was found) order all of the occupants of the home in to the Department of Human Services. Obviously, the call didn't go as the social worker had hoped (we actually follow the first, second, fourth, fifth, and fourteenth ammendments... and others... where I work). It just chaps me that they made such a request in the first place (without any information to indicate that a crime had occurred, or information pointing to a parent being a convicted felon).
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DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in my posts do not necessarily represent those of my employing department, and should not be taken as legal advice. In fact, don't take anything you read on the internet as legal advice! (after all, Al Gore created it!). |
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May 28, 2008, 07:30 PM
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#21 |
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Member
Join Date: October 9, 2006
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,201
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My 11 YO son got in trouble last year because he was drawing pictures of guns during class. The teacher could have cared less if he was drawing guns, cars, or flowers. He was doing something other than paying attention to her. That's all she cared about. The fact that he was drawing M-16s, sniper rfles, swords and halbreds never figured into his punishment. So take heart, there are still places left where common sense is allowed to live.
Hokkmike, if you ever get tired of life in Northeastern Podunksylvania, you'd fit right in down here in Central Podunksylvania and can teach my kids anytime.
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Ready on the right? Ready on the left? All ready on the firing line. Shooters may commence fire! |
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May 28, 2008, 07:36 PM
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#22 |
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Member
Join Date: August 7, 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,668
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Amazing. We routinely would throw our shotguns in the trunk and then go to school on Friday so we could hunt after school. Heck my brother and dad even went quail hunting with the Principal.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin |
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May 28, 2008, 07:42 PM
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: February 24, 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,992
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How sad. People will soon say "...but the first amendment is subject to restrictions, like you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, or say "gun" in a school."
 I used to draw tons of UZIs and M9s when I was in school, and even did a science fair project about the ballistic effects of HP vs FMJ ammo (won 2nd place!) I guess that was about 18 years ago. How far we have fallen.
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin NRA Life Member |
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May 28, 2008, 07:55 PM
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#24 | |
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Member
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: California.
Posts: 503
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Never had a problem drawing guns or looking them up while at school, elementary through high school.
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Quote:
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May 28, 2008, 09:16 PM
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#25 |
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Member
Join Date: October 11, 2003
Posts: 3,989
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The basis for Zero Tolerance policies is to remove human judgment from decisions about the matter.
It does seem wrong for educational institutions to promote the idea that thinking and judgment are bad. I wonder why those that do so are allowed to remain in business. I wonder even more what kind of people tolerate such absurdities, and who could possibly allow their own children or their neighbors' children to set foot in such places. Surely they are not people who think well or have good judgment. |
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