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Old July 28, 2015, 02:37 AM   #1
Speedo66
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Taurus Agrees to $39 million settlement

Just saw an article where Taurus agreed to that settlement to fix pistols that could discharge when dropped, and a faulty safety system. 30 Mil. Was for repairs, 9 Mil. in attorney fees.

The money is to fund a buyback program for 9 different models, and also extends the warranty period for those who want the gun inspected for safety issues.

http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/gun...e-pistol-case/
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Old July 28, 2015, 03:48 AM   #2
DeepSouth
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Nine different models with the same defect, that had to be pretty big (common) error.
Seems like they'd have caught that, well I guess they did. They caught $39 million dollars worth of "oops"

Glad I don't have a Taurus.
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Old July 28, 2015, 03:54 AM   #3
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It was inevitable. While it takes some special effort to engage the safety in the manner described, there's always a special idiot who will make that effort.

For anyone who's unfamiliar with the problem, the pistols can be placed on safe in a manner which defeats the safety mechanisms. Pull the trigger far enough to clear the safety block while the safety is off, then engage the safety. The trigger is now locked BEHIND the safety trigger block. The gun will fire if the trigger is pulled or the gun is dropped in such a way that the trigger is forced back.
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Old July 28, 2015, 04:15 AM   #4
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I assume they used the same safety/trigger set up on 9 models, correct?

I'm not familiar at all with anything Taurus.
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Old July 28, 2015, 04:46 AM   #5
Miked7762
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Yes, all the models are in the same family and use the same trigger and safety configuration.

I'm undecided if Taurus should be to blame for the problem or not. In order to activate the problem, you must already be pulling the trigger when you engage the safety. That's not a valid way to make the firearm safe. Then again, I can't think of a single other firearm that makes it possible to do that. On everything else, the safety either will not engage or it will disconnect the trigger once engaged.
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Old July 28, 2015, 05:47 AM   #6
mnrivrat
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More about $9 million in wheasel fee's than in building a safer gun. The Remington 700 trigger was more dangerous than this issue with Taurus.
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Old July 28, 2015, 05:59 AM   #7
19-3Ben
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Quote:
More about $9 million in wheasel fee's than in building a safer gun.
Unless you have seen their bill, and the work associated with their fees, you have absolutely no way to determine if it was properly earned, or if they were weasels.
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Old July 28, 2015, 01:08 PM   #8
wally
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Quote:
For anyone who's unfamiliar with the problem, the pistols can be placed on safe in a manner which defeats the safety mechanisms. Pull the trigger far enough to clear the safety block while the safety is off, then engage the safety. The trigger is now locked BEHIND the safety trigger block. The gun will fire if the trigger is pulled or the gun is dropped in such a way that the trigger is forced back.
Yes years ago I posted photos showing than when the trigger is in the position behind the safety its not all that obvious that the gun is unsafe even though the safety is obviously engaged.

You don't have to be that special an idiot -- if you are used to shooting 1911s and in the habit of flicking on the thumb safety as soon as you stop shooting, the long reset of these pistols make it not that hard to put the gun into this state.

They should have done a recall on these years ago before the lawyers got involved and saved the $9 million! I'm sad it had to come to this, but a defect like this can't be allowed to stand in a pistol marketed for self defence.

Edit: here is the thread with my photos, see post #12:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=557528
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Old July 28, 2015, 02:20 PM   #9
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"I'm not familiar at all with anything Taurus."

Your lucky. Stay that way!!
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Old July 29, 2015, 04:28 PM   #10
danez71
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Towards the beginning of the manual it says:

Quote:
4. The pistol is now ready to fire by
pulling the TRIGGER. After firing, the
SLIDE will recoil from gas pressure
and will eject the empty cartridge
case and feed another cartridge into
the chamber. The pistol will be ready
to fire again. After the last round, the
SLIDE will remain in the open
position held by the SLIDE CATCH.
In order to make it return to its rest
position, press the SLIDE CATCH
downward just above the LEFT
GRIP. On the PT145, the slide will
not close with an empty magazine in
place. To return the slide to its rest
position, release the empty
magazine by pushing the magazine
catch button with your thumb.

5. If you want to stop shooting before
firing the last cartridge of a
magazine, push the safety lever in
the up (on) position.
Later on in the manual it says:

Quote:
4. Always keep your finger off the trigger and point the muzzle in a safe
direction when turning the safety “on” or “off”.


5. When applying the safety, be certain to move it fully into position. On some
firearms a red warning dot is located beside the safety; when the safety is
fully “on”, the red dot should be completely covered. Always remember, “Halfsafe”
is NOT SAFE.

But there seems to be an issue of it being dropped too.

Quote:
Brazil-based handgun maker Taurus has agreed to a $39 million settlement in a class action lawsuit alleging some of the company's most popular semi-automatic handguns can discharge when dropped and have a defective safety that allows the gun to fire even when it's engaged.
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Old July 30, 2015, 03:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
The settlement agreement covers nine Taurus models, including the PT-111 Millennium; PT-132 Millennium; PT-138 Millennium; PT-140 Millennium; PT-145 Millennium; PT-745 Millennium; PT-609; PT-640 and PT-24/7, Taurus says.
Interesting to read the recall list. These Millenniums have been very problematic for Taurus. I had a Gen 1 and it sucked. I reluctantly got a Gen 2 only after firing it satisfactorily. Now apparently it's on the recall list. Hmmm....

And I have a 24/7.

Thanks for posting this. I'll be in touch with Taurus.

Quote:
The agreement also will extend the warranty for the nine handgun models, allowing gun owners to send the pistols back to have the handguns inspected by Taurus technicians and address the “safety defects” alleged in the suit.
Confused. Doesn't Taurus have a lifetime warranty?

Quote:
According to court documents filed May 15 in a U.S. District Court in Florida, the company has agreed to pay up to $30 million to owners of nine separate handgun models who opt to send their pistols back, with owners receiving anywhere from $150 to $200 for their pistols depending on how many choose that option.
So Taurus wants to buy my $300 gun back for 1/2 price? No thanks...
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Old July 30, 2015, 03:40 AM   #12
old lady new shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepSouth View Post
Nine different models with the same defect, that had to be pretty big (common) error.
Seems like they'd have caught that, well I guess they did. They caught $39 million dollars worth of "oops"

Glad I don't have a Taurus.
I tried holding one, it just didn't feel "solid" to me.
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Old July 30, 2015, 07:51 AM   #13
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My LGS stopped selling the Millenium series long ago. They only stock the PT 92, PT1911. And the 605 revolvers.
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Old July 30, 2015, 09:30 AM   #14
Yo Mama
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Big Edit:

Ok, now after speaking with 2 Taurus reps by phone, they will not guarantee we get these guns back after sending in for a safety check on the warranty!

Can everyone call please and confirm what will happen if we do send them in?

Last edited by Yo Mama; July 30, 2015 at 11:33 AM.
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Old July 30, 2015, 11:32 AM   #15
JR47
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Oh, come on, some of these people have never owned a Taurus gun, making them, in today's world, instant experts.

Anybody have any idea how many Ruger P85 pistols were recalled? Or SR9s? How many Glock 22 pistols did Glock "update"?

Taurus is a foreign company. Taurus USA is subordinate to Taurus Brazil. Brazil operates in a different way than America. I also find it funny that the article states that "up to a million guns are involved", which equates to $30.00 per gun under the settlement. The whole thing sounds like the usual media agenda hype.
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Old July 30, 2015, 01:43 PM   #16
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I sure would like to exchange my "third generation" SA/DA PT-111 for the new G2.

Sending it in for inspection is the only option right now....

No guarantee that I will get it back or get a replacement.

They have to determine if it can be "repaired" .... whatever that means.

Taurus will pay shipping both ways...which is good.

Considering the huge black eye this will give their reputation, I'd think that they would replace these ... no questions asked.
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Old July 30, 2015, 05:51 PM   #17
wally
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Quote:
they will not guarantee we get these guns back after sending in for a safety check on the warranty!
They have to repair or replace, no way they can just "keep it". I had a recalled gun from Century, they replaced it with a different one later in the production run, which has been fine.

If you changed sights or something, put the originals back on before you return it.
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Old August 2, 2015, 06:54 PM   #18
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So is the only way to know if your gun is affected to ship it to Taurus? Or are ALL Millenniums (all generations, all serial numbers, all dates of manufacture) included ? Strange there is no mention of this on Taurus' website.
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Old August 2, 2015, 09:16 PM   #19
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Good info.

wally, in the referenced thread, I could not get my SA/DA MilProPT145 to duplicate the problem you posted with DAO model. However, I did not go as far as drop testing the SA/DA PT145. If there is a problem with gun going off when dropped, it's good that Taurus is addressing that issue - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...72#post8176672

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSN Vet
I sure would like to exchange my "third generation" SA/DA PT-111 for the new G2.

Sending it in for inspection is the only option right now....

No guarantee that I will get it back or get a replacement.

They have to determine if it can be "repaired" .... whatever that means.

Taurus will pay shipping both ways...which is good.

Considering the huge black eye this will give their reputation, I'd think that they would replace these ... no questions asked.
While I like my stainless SA/DA PT145, I would be interested in the G2. Since G2 is not on CA roster, I wonder if they would consider doing a trade for stainless 65 or 605?

I will give Taurus a call and see what they say. I will post an update.
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Last edited by bds; August 2, 2015 at 09:24 PM.
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Old August 3, 2015, 03:18 AM   #20
Miked7762
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Quote:
But there seems to be an issue of it being dropped too.
There is a striker block safety just like other striker fired pistols. It's deactivated by the trigger bar. Normally the trigger bar is locked forward with a trigger lock safety. It can't deactivate the striker block in this configuration. But if you pull the trigger, even slightly, it deactivates the trigger lock safety and the trigger bar is free to move. If you pull the trigger and lock the manual safety you have disabled the trigger lock safety. The trigger bar is then free to move and disable the striker block safety, in fact in that position it's poised to do so.

Locking the trigger behind the manual safety stop essentially defeats all three safety mechanisms on the pistol. A drop or hit hard enough to knock the sear away from the striker is easily hard enough to knock the trigger bar into the striker block safety.

It's trivial to demonstrate this if you have one of these pistols. Field strip it and have a look at the frame. With the safety on or off and the trigger in its normal forward resting position, reach in with your thumbnail and push the trigger bar back. There will be some movement but not enough to disengage the striker block safety. Now pull the trigger back and engage the manual safety so the trigger is locked behind it. Reach in again and push the trigger bar back. You will immediately see why the pistol isn't drop safe in this configuration.

Quote:
I reluctantly got a Gen 2 only after firing it satisfactorily. Now apparently it's on the recall list. Hmmm....

And I have a 24/7.
If you have a G2 (external trigger safety) it isn't subject to the problem. The 24/7 Pro model is the only 24/7 model with the problem, if you have one of the others they are not subject to it either.
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Old August 3, 2015, 08:47 AM   #21
wally
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Quote:
I could not get my SA/DA MilProPT145 to duplicate the problem you posted with DAO model.
You've misread, my photos are of the PT-140 SA/DA MilPro model.

I would have hoped they'd at least quietly fix it in later production runs.
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Old August 3, 2015, 09:34 AM   #22
bds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wally
My Taurus OSS actually is: PT 24/7 OSS DS in .45ACP ... This is my PT140 PRO
Got it. Must have read 45ACP and thought PT145.
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Old August 3, 2015, 10:31 AM   #23
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I contacted Taurus and the only option available is to send the gun to them (on their dime round trip) for a "safety inspection".

I'm somewhat hesitant to do so, as my PT-111 pro runs without fault and I'm afraid they'll send me some BS settlement of $100 or something.

I have the shipping label all printed out and ready to go, but I may sit on my hands until hearing of someone else's experience.
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Old August 3, 2015, 11:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
I have the shipping label all printed out and ready to go,
Do you have to call them, or is there some place on their website to request one?
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