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Old October 29, 2014, 09:56 PM   #1
Pyro
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Bullets stick out of cylinder.

I've got an old Hopkins and Allen: Forehand DA revolver I like to shoot every now and then.
Recently I purchased from Aguila 32 S&W-Long LRN bullets from and this is what I found when I loaded the cylinder.
20141029_214710.jpg
The gun will not seat the cylinder with these bullets loaded.
Is it possible these bullets were not loaded deep enough or was this firearm designed for use with 32 S&W-Shorts only?
I have not shot .32 S&W-Long LRN out of this gun yet, mostly it's been wadcutters of the same caliber because it's all I could find.
Anybody ever see this before?
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Last edited by Pyro; October 29, 2014 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Darn spelling.
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Old October 29, 2014, 11:15 PM   #2
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I would assume it was chambered for the 32 S&W cartridge, and not the long. You got the wrong ammo unfortunately.
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Old October 29, 2014, 11:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460Kodiak View Post
I would assume it was chambered for the 32 S&W cartridge, and not the long. You got the wrong ammo unfortunately.
My guess too. That's the old school 32 S&W, not 32 long. I dont think they make the 32 S&W stuff anymore. Maybe it can be handloaded.
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Old Yesterday, 12:10 AM   #4
toiville2feathers
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GAD Custom Cartridges still offer the 32 S&W. They offer a bunch of the obsolete ammo.
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Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agsalaska View Post
My guess too. That's the old school 32 S&W, not 32 long. I dont think they make the 32 S&W stuff anymore. Maybe it can be handloaded.
It'll chamber and fire .32 S&W-Long wadcutters fine and loading it with the 32 Shorts leaves a lot of chamber left over.

Probably just stick to the 32 shorts from now on.
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Old Yesterday, 01:24 AM   #6
Onward Allusion
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Don't shoot 32 S&W Long wadcutters in a revolver chambered for 32 S&W (short); even if they fit. Heck, 32 ACP will fit in a 32 S&W chamber.

First, those old guns have soft metal. Second, the 32 S&W Long has about 50% more pressure than the 32 S&W. If you need 32 S&W ammo, just go to ammoseek.com and do a search. Remington, Magtech, & Prvi still make 32 S&W.
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Old Yesterday, 04:19 AM   #7
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You can still shoot those. Just take a pair of diagonal cutters and snip off the point of the bullet.
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Old Yesterday, 04:20 AM   #8
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Bullets stick out of cylinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toiville2feathers View Post
GAD Custom Cartridges still offer the 32 S&W. They offer a bunch of the obsolete ammo.

I would be careful ordering from them. I have seen lots of poor quality merchandise come from them.

A prime example:
https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/g...arning.147998/
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM   #9
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Hmmm. . . . bad advice to snip the end of the bullet!
If the chamber will accept the cartrige, that doesnt mean it's safe to shoot! It may be bottoming out with no room for the crimp to un-roll!! Very dangerous!!!!

Find out the chambering first !!! Making bad guesses is how you can lose body parts!!!!

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Old Yesterday, 09:22 AM   #10
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Howdy

If the gun was chambered for the shorter 32 S&W cartridge, that is what it should say on it. The longer 32 S&W Long cartridge should not chamber completely in a cylinder chambered for 32 S&W. They certainly don't in my old 32 S&W Top Breaks. Peering into the chambers should tell you at a glance whether the gun is designed for the 32 S&W or 32 S&W Long cartridge. Case length for the 32 S&W is .680. case length for the 32 S&W long is .920.

How long are the cartridges? Maximum OA cartridge length for 32 S&W Long is 1.280" (Speer Reloading Manual, 13th Edition). If the rounds are longer than that, that is the problem. I just measured some 32 S&W Long cartridges of fairly recent manufacture.

Sellier & Bellot - 1.265
Fiocchi - 1.270
Remington - 1.260
Mag Tech - 1.270

Last edited by Driftwood Johnson; Yesterday at 09:27 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 AM   #11
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I have a box of 32 S&W that I bought at bass pro for 35 bucks. The are remington in the green and yellow box. Shot a few from my old IJ and they work fine. Eventually I'll reload a few with black powder.
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Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftwood Johnson View Post
How long are the cartridges? Maximum OA cartridge length for 32 S&W Long is 1.280" (Speer Reloading Manual, 13th Edition). If the rounds are longer than that, that is the problem. I just measured some 32 S&W Long cartridges of fairly recent manufacture.
I measured the cylinder and it came to 31 mm or 1.22 inches in length.
Just a hair shorter than the OAL you are showing me so none of those will work, thanks for the information!

All I've shot out of it so far are the 32 S&W-Long Fiocchi/Federal wadcutters and a box of 32 S&W-Short Remington LRN.
All stabilize and appear to be the same in recoil, although the Federal stuff seems to be at a higher pressure.
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 Dragoon View Post
Hmmm. . . . bad advice to snip the end of the bullet!
If the chamber will accept the cartrige, that doesnt mean it's safe to shoot! It may be bottoming out with no room for the crimp to un-roll!! Very dangerous!!!!

Find out the chambering first !!! Making bad guesses is how you can lose body parts!!!!

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Oh come on, stop being so dramatic. I'm not telling anyone to put a .357 Magnum (35,000 PSI) in a .38 S&W (14,500 PSI) and fire it.

There doesn't seem to be a SAAMI pressure limit listed for the 32 S&W.
The 32 S&W Long is listed with SAAMI limit of 15,000 PSI and I can't see that pressure being high enough to blow up any revolver that's in good operating condition. Even though the limit is 15,000 PSI rarely if ever does commercial loads come close to the limits especially in those older cartridges that have questionable guns available that the ammo might be shot in.

Besides, the OP already told us he as safely shot 32 S&W Long WC ammo in that revolver which was one of the reasons I suggested nipping off the end of the bullet and shooting the ammo.
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Old Yesterday, 01:39 PM   #14
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Huh, maybe I am reading it wrong but SAAMI is saying that .32 S&W Short has a higher PSI than .32 S&W Long.
Go to page 2, in the Maximum Average Pressure [PSI] bracket.
http://saami.org/specifications_and_...ssure_CfPR.pdf

As long as I don't shoot anything like Buffalo Bore out of this old thing I feel I'm ok shooting .32 S&W-Long wadcutters.
As for the LRN bullets, I'll just shoot those out of my 32 mag derringer.
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Old Yesterday, 07:12 PM   #15
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Yeah, that is weird. News to me if it's correct.
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Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM   #16
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Its possible this firearm is chambered for 32 m&h (merwin and Hulbert)
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Old Yesterday, 08:08 PM   #17
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Ok, I take back all the drama.

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Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
Huh, maybe I am reading it wrong but SAAMI is saying that .32 S&W Short has a higher PSI than .32 S&W Long.
Go to page 2, in the Maximum Average Pressure [PSI] bracket.
http://saami.org/specifications_and_...ssure_CfPR.pdf

As long as I don't shoot anything like Buffalo Bore out of this old thing I feel I'm ok shooting .32 S&W-Long wadcutters.
As for the LRN bullets, I'll just shoot those out of my 32 mag derringer.
No, you're not reading it wrong. It seems the 32 S&W has a MAP of 17,000 PSI whereas the 32 S&W Long only 15,000 PSI.

When I quoted 15,000 PSI for the 32 S&W Long above and said there was no listing for the 32 S&W it was because I checked a few online SAAMI pressure sources and none listed the 32 S&W. Sorry I didn't check SAAMI directly, thank you for the link Pyro. I mentioned the two should be close or the same but I also didn't think the 32 S&W would be listed with a higher pressure limit than 32 S&W Long.

I guess it seems strange to many of us because usually when a case is lengthened it's to turn a "Special" into a "Magnum" cartridge and the pressures usually increase. I'm not sure there is another cartridge set that is the same. Anyone know of another?
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Old Yesterday, 08:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
I guess it seems strange to many of us because usually when a case is lengthened it's to turn a "Special" into a "Magnum" cartridge and the pressures usually increase. I'm not sure there is another cartridge set that is the same. Anyone know of another?
Exactly. The numbers have to be reversed. The 32 S&W Long is not much more powerful than the 32 S&W so reversification has to be it. Both cartridges were originally loaded for black powder, but I see no way that would result in the max pressures of the short being higher than the long now.

Occam's razor = typo

Proof would be nice though. Where's Driftwood when you need him?
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Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM   #20
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You're welcome, ArchAngelCD.

Could it be the combustion space inside the chamber?

A .32 S&W-Short will have less space under the bullet than the taller .32 S&W-Long.
Less space=higher initial pressure

Even if the .32 S&W-Long LRN has a teeny bit more powder in its case and is firing a slightly heavier bullet, the increased space in the brass might be just enough to actually dampen the pressure spike.
This would be a polar idea to the use of wadcutters, saying they increase the pressure spike due to be seated deeper.
This is me theorizing of course.

I once staggered a cylinder between LRN Shorts and LWC Longs and didn't feel much of a difference.
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
No, you're not reading it wrong. It seems the 32 S&W has a MAP of 17,000 PSI whereas the 32 S&W Long only 15,000 PSI
Typo - The long has a PSI of 17,000

Quote:
Oh come on, stop being so dramatic. I'm not telling anyone to put a .357 Magnum (35,000 PSI) in a .38 S&W (14,500 PSI) and fire it
Perhaps not but you are telling someone to chamber and shoot a cartridge a gun was not designed for. Not wildly out of line, but that still doesn't seem like a great idea to me when proper ammo is available, and .32 S&WL does have a higher pressure.

Count me on the side of being dramatic if that means safety first.
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM   #22
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Yeah I don't like being a safety nazi but I don't think it's a real good idea either.
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Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM   #23
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I appreciate that everyone here is as concerned about my fingers as I am.
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Old Yesterday, 10:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnrivrat View Post
Typo - The long has a PSI of 17,000



Perhaps not but you are telling someone to chamber and shoot a cartridge a gun was not designed for. Not wildly out of line, but that still doesn't seem like a great idea to me when proper ammo is available, and .32 S&WL does have a higher pressure.

Count me on the side of being dramatic if that means safety first.
No, I did not tell him to shoot a cartridge the gun wasn't designed to shoot. He already told us he was shooting 32 S&W Long ammo in that revolver. What, it's not possible the ammo is out of spec and slightly long?

As for a typo and the 32 S&W Long generating 17,000 PSI, every other source I read the pressure was listed at 15,000 PSI. (4 different sources plus SAAMI) The 17,000 PSI might be incorrect for the 32 S&W but I don't think the numbers were reversed and just because it looks like they might doesn't make that fact. You are guessing they were reversed because it sounds right.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm
http://handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm
http://www.castpics.net/subsite/SAAM...s/default.html
http://kwk.us/pressures.html
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Old Yesterday, 10:59 PM   #25
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The plot thickens.

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