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Old February 4, 2016, 12:43 AM   #1
jski
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New Model Blackhawk v. Old Model Blackhawk ?

Called a MT based cast bullet company to inquire about their products. In particular, I was considering hard cast lead bullets without GC for my .30 Carbine New Model Blackhawk.

I asked if I should go with their premium bullets, hard cast lead - BHN 22? Considering the standard pressure for the .30 Carbine is 40,000 psi. I don't want to clean a lead fouled barrel ... again!

Wherein he quickly informed me that the New Model Blackhawk CAN'T handle pressures like that. Whereas the old Model Blackhawk could. Said my cylander would blow or my frame.

Has anyone heard anything like this before? Can't believe Ruger would sell a gun where every factory load would be for the M1 Carbine @ 40,000 psi.

Last edited by jski; February 4, 2016 at 12:54 AM.
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Old February 4, 2016, 02:10 AM   #2
Shootshellz
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Why not ask Ruger and find out?
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Old February 4, 2016, 02:40 AM   #3
Lost Sheep
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Difference between Old Model Blackhawks and New Model Blackhawks is in the lockwork (presence or absence of a transfer bar principally, and a few other details).

Frame and cylinder (to my knowledge) have not changed on any Blackhawk models.

Your "source" (to give him the benefit of the doubt) may have been thinking of the Vaquero name, but that is a totally different question.

Did you get the guy's name and credentials to make such a declaration? Of course it would be impolite, to quiz him, but it is rude of him to pontificate from a base of ignorance, too.

Also0, of course, I am more unknown to you than he is, so follow Shootshellz's advice and ask Ruger. Or your local gunsmith.

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Old February 4, 2016, 10:51 AM   #4
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Pure, unadulterated nonsense. Both Old and New Model .30Carbine Blackhawks are built on the large, Super Blackhawk sized frame. Only difference is the lockwork.

Don't bother calling Ruger.
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Old February 4, 2016, 11:16 AM   #5
jski
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I came to that conclusion in the middle of the conversation. Somewhere in this conversation telling me that the New Model Blackhawks 357, 41, and 44 mags "couldn't handle stiff loads, they'll blow up".

I originally called to get his input on which Brinell Hardness Number I needed for a 40,000+ psi cartridge.
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Old February 4, 2016, 02:24 PM   #6
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I hope that wasn't Montana Bullet Works!
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Old February 4, 2016, 02:53 PM   #7
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He may have been confused between the older Vaquero and the New Vaquero.
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Old February 4, 2016, 02:59 PM   #8
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I think eldon519 is correct!
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Old February 4, 2016, 03:13 PM   #9
theleo
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The original Blackhawk was built as a 357 on a 357 frame once the 44 mag came along they got rid of their mid size frame (357 frame). Here a few years ago they brought it back for their 50th anniversary 357 Blackhawks and the original mid frame Blackhawk is now the new model Blackhawks. You can get them in 357, 44 special, and 45lc (maybe the 41 mag also but can't remember for sure). Your 30 Carbine was built on the 44 mag frame and is safe for any of the standard published loads you'll find in manuals. The mid frame new models can't take that pressure but that's not what you have. Ruger would not put out a firearm able to safely meet SAAMI standard pressure which is 40,000 psi for the 30 Carbine. The law suits would put them out of business if they ever did.
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Old February 4, 2016, 04:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
they brought it back for their 50th anniversary 357 Blackhawks and the original mid frame Blackhawk is now the new model Blackhawks. You can get them in 357, 44 special, and 45lc (maybe the 41 mag also but can't remember for sure).
Let me get this straight, New Model Blackhawks are Medium framed?
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Old February 4, 2016, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
The original Blackhawk was built as a 357 on a 357 frame once the 44 mag came along they got rid of their mid size frame (357 frame). Here a few years ago they brought it back for their 50th anniversary 357 Blackhawks and the original mid frame Blackhawk is now the new model Blackhawks.
All wrong.

The original Blackhawk was the .357Mag mid-frame flat-top of 1955. Ears were added around the rear sight in 1962 but the frame size continued for that chambering until 1972.

The .44 Blackhawk debuted in 1956 and was built on a larger frame until 1962.

The Super Blackhawk came out in 1959 on the same sized frame as the .44 Blackhawk, except with the protective ears around the rear sight, elongated steel grip frame, unfluted cylinder and wider hammer/trigger.

The .41Mag, .45Colt and .30M1 Blackhawks were all built on the large Super Blackhawk frame.

In 1973, Ruger introduced the New Model single actions and all Blackhawks were built on the same large Super Blackhawk sized frame.

In 1992, Ruger introduced the Vaquero, a fixed sight version of the large frame Blackhawk.

In 2005, Ruger discontinued the Vaquero, in favor of the New Vaquero, which was sized more like the old mid-frame guns or a Colt SAA. The same year, they introduced a mid-frame .357 Blackhawk for the 50th anniversary.

In 2006, Ruger built the anniversary .44 Blackhawk. Large frame, flat topstrap, Micro rear sight and steel XR3 grip frame.

Some years later, Lipsey's ordered some mid-frame Blackhawks identical to the 50th anniversary .357, chambered in .44Spl. These became a standard catalog item. Bisley and New Vaquero configurations have been produced in .44Spl, as well as a mid-frame .45 convertible Blackhawk.

None of the rest of the lineup changed. All regular .357, .41, .44, .45 and .30 Blackhawks are large framed.
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Old February 4, 2016, 05:35 PM   #12
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So any 3 screw Blackhawk .357 would be mid size frame then? And then any transfer bar Blackhawk .357 would be large frame, unless a 50th anniversary unit or a Lipsey's special?

thanks,
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Old February 4, 2016, 06:37 PM   #13
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Correct.
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Old February 5, 2016, 01:29 AM   #14
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I understand that Lipsey's have also done a mid-frame flattop .357/9mm convertible recently.
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Old February 5, 2016, 01:48 AM   #15
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Yes, I forgot about that one.
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Old February 5, 2016, 05:16 AM   #16
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I'd have a hard time believing my 50th anniv. .357 frame couldn't handle a .30Carbine round's pressure! The frame and cylinder are both massive!
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Old February 5, 2016, 01:34 PM   #17
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I'd have a hard time believing my 50th anniv. .357 frame couldn't handle a .30Carbine round's pressure! The frame and cylinder are both massive!
That's what makes it such a bogus statement. It couldn't be true in any way. The Single Seven is a .327 on the Single Six platform that runs at even higher pressures of 45,000psi. AND It's a seven shot!
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Old February 5, 2016, 07:33 PM   #18
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Craig C, I thought some were saying the 50th, a medium frame couldn't handle .30Carbine pressures which max is only 10% over .357 sami. .327 is around 45,000? I think and the single 7 cylinder is narrower also I assume over the blackhawk.
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Old February 5, 2016, 08:02 PM   #19
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The mid-frame could easily handle the .30Carbine, as long as length wasn't an issue.
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Old February 5, 2016, 10:47 PM   #20
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Pressure is probably the most misunderstood concept in all of firearms, and even half the writers who touch on it have no idea what they are talking about.
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Old Yesterday, 01:00 PM   #21
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it is 45,000 psi.

cartridge length is 1.290" (.005" longer than the 357 magnum). i think it will fit.

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Old Today, 03:04 AM   #22
jski
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I would like to try 125 gr gas checked, hard cast bullets (for my .30Carbine Blackhawk). Searched the Internet without luck. Anybody have a suggestion for a quality bullet shop which could provide this spec?

Just noticed that the Montana Bullet Works offers 115 gr. and 150 gr. flat nose, gas checked, hard cast bullets in .308.

Last edited by jski; Today at 03:33 AM.
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