Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers - Page 173

CRF450808 · June 30, 2012, 12:10 AM

This was a good friends Grandpa's who carried it as a US Marshall for 18 years. His Grandad actually stood next to Hoffa during a two week Jury trial. It was a very proud day for him when his father passed it on:

38
approx 1-2" ( need to confirm)
square? ( it has pearl grips, prob aftermarket)
5
fixed
252xx
76938

Radagast · June 30, 2012, 05:38 AM

CRF450458: Your friend has a .38 Chiefs Special from 1952 or early 1953. In 1957 these were designated the Model 36. The number you quote (76938) is an assembly number, used to track parts in the factory. It's hard to tell with that pic, but it may have the early small trigger guard. If so it may bring a small premium from a collector.

CRF450808 · June 30, 2012, 09:01 AM

Thanks for the info!! Here is a closer pic of the triger guard:

Radagast · June 30, 2012, 08:03 PM

Yep, appears to be a small trigger guard version.

Erik M · July 1, 2012, 12:51 AM

digging through an old chifferobe in my grandfathers basement, found and interesting Smith piece. It did not have an identifing mark beneath the crane, howeve it looks to be something akin to a model 10 to my brother and I.

#S877076

he said it was taken on trade 40+ years ago, so it may not be an all factory parts gun.

Radagast · July 1, 2012, 05:35 AM

Erik M:

You have a .38 Military & Police Postwar (Transitional Model) manufactured between September 1945 & October 1947.
This is considered a treansitional Model between the pre-war .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th change and the .38 Military & Police (Postwar) that became the Model 10. It should have the prewar Long Action, with the hammer having a longer throw than a Model 10. This gives a smoother trigger pull than the current Short Action. It wil also have the internal hammer block safety developed during WWII, hence the S prefix to the serial number, standing for safety.
The .38 Military & Police Postwar had the internal hammer block and the new short action, from roughly August 1948, IIRC. In 1957 it was designated the Model 10. Prior to that there were no model numbers, just model names that were not stamped on the guns.

TL,DR: 1945 to 1947, probably early 47, safe to load six, should be safe with any current standard pressure or PlusP ammo, should have a nice trigger, use the how to check out a revolver sticky at the top of this forum to make sure its safe to fire. Some collector interest, but only worth around $350 in excellent condition.

Hope this helps.

1/7GRUNT · July 1, 2012, 07:53 PM

586-1
357 magnum
4 inch barrel
square butt
AUP2192

thanks in advance!!

Radagast · July 1, 2012, 08:06 PM

1/7GRUNT:
Your Model 586-1 Distinguished Combat Magnum was manufactured in early 1987.
There is a recall on this model. With some magnum ammunition the primer can flow back into the firing pin bushing, locking up the gun.
Under the recall S&W will pay shipping both ways and install a new firing pin and bushing.
If your gun has already been modified there will be an M stamped near the model number under the cylinder yoke.
If it hasn't been modified and you want to have it modified, then call S&W. They will send you a shipping label.

1/7GRUNT · July 1, 2012, 08:32 PM

Ah yes, i had read about that here and at the smith-wessonforum.
So it is marked:
M586-1, is that the M you are talking about or is that just model? Would it be a separate marking?

Radagast · July 2, 2012, 08:04 AM

Normally it should say Model 586-1 M if modified, or Model 586-1 if unmodified.
If it says Model M586-1 then I would say it's been modified.

cwl1862 · July 3, 2012, 04:54 PM

a) 38 spl
b) 3" bbl
c) RB
d) 6
e) fixed
f) 7D798XX
g) 63-3

Thanks

Radagast · July 3, 2012, 08:54 PM

cwl1862:
Your Model 64-3 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1981.
it's not a Model 63, as that was a .22lr.

cwl1862 · July 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

Oops sorry for the type-o!

I wish I had a model 63 though!! However that one continues to elude me!!

O well the hunt continues!!

slimpickens · July 4, 2012, 11:56 AM

Sir: Could you please date a S&W lemon squeezer for me. It is serial #196111. Has a three inch barrel, .32 caliber in blue finish.

bowman1962 · July 4, 2012, 12:03 PM

Cal. 38 short
3in. bbl.
round butt
5 shot
Iron sights
Ser# 188531

Thank you in advance,
bowman1962

Maj Dad · July 4, 2012, 12:27 PM

Radagast,
My friend has an old M&P/?1905 that his dad carried as a policeman right after WW2, and we're wondering wehn it was born. It was under water after Hurricane Betsy in Chalmette, LA, in '65, and though it cleaned up fairly well, it's still an old veteran which shows its age. I looked through some of the posts trying to get an idea but it has a barrel mark I'm not familiar with. On the left side of the bbl is marked "38 S&W Special" over "U.S. Service CTG'S" all between the two flanking markings (don't know what you call them). The pistols particulars are:

38 Spl
4" bbl
SB
6 shot
Fixed sights
S.N. 85680

Thanks in advance, and thanks for all you've done for us!
Cheers,
George J.

Radagast · July 4, 2012, 09:59 PM

Maj Dad:
Your friend has a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 manufactured in 1905 or 1906. Serial range for those years was 62450 to 73250.
This gun predates heat treatment of cylinders and should only be shot with .standard pressure lead loads, no jacketed, semi jacketed, +P or +P+. It also predates the internal hammer block safety. If dropped it could fire, so leave the chamber under the hammer empty.
.38 Service CTG is the .38 Long Colt, then the current US military revolver cartridge.

bowman1962:
Assuming a S&W and assuming chambered in .38 S&W CTG.
If a break top with an external hammer, then you have a .38 Double Action 3rd model manufactured between 1884 & 1892 in the serial range 119001 to 264116. This is a black powder firearm, use of modern ammunition will cause accelerated wear and new parts are not available. It lacks a hammer block safety and should be loaded with 4 rounds only, leaving the chamber under the hammer empty.
If a hammerless breaktop, then it is a .38 Safety Hammerless 4th Model, manufactured between 1904 & 1907. Again this is a black powder firearm. The grip safety makes the gun safe to load with 5 rounds.

slimpickens:
You have a .32 Safety Hammerless 3rd model manufactured between 1909 & March 1915. Serial range for those years was 170000 to 205477. If I had to guess I would say 1913/14.
This gun was made after S&W started advertising them as safe fore smokeless powder, so modern ammo should be fine. Due to the grip safety it is safe to load 5 rounds.

slimpickens · July 5, 2012, 07:26 AM

Radagast, Thanks Again, Sir.
Slimpickens

Maj Dad · July 5, 2012, 11:48 AM

Thanks again, Radagast - you're a gentleman and a scholar!

Force5150 · July 5, 2012, 03:49 PM

Just got this S&W .38 from my grandfather-in-law's estate. My wife is bringing home to me. I don't have the barrel length yet but it is not a short barrell. Serial num 134833. Thanks for any info or help you can provide. I greatly appreciate it. I posted this under a different thread with picture. Now it won't let me upload picture again.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=267874

That is the link on this forum to my original post. Thanks.

Radagast · July 5, 2012, 09:15 PM

Old Fuff has covered it in the other thread.

West716 · July 6, 2012, 12:36 AM

Need help with old 22 revolver. the butt of the gun has serial number 665xxx. when you open the carriage, there is a number on the frame and the carriage that is 135xx. Is it possible that tthe grip was changed out? The 135xx would date it to 1914. Strangely enough, on the barell has 3 patent dates, and the last one reads Dec 14. I have to register this pistol that was my late father's and NY requires model numbers. Any idea what the model number should be, and which number. should I register it as?

Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

here is pics attachments

Radagast · July 6, 2012, 05:46 AM

West716:

You have a K-22 Outdoorsman (K-22 1st Model) manufactured sometime between 1935 & 1940.
S&W did not introduce model numbers until 1957, at which point the somewhat modified K22 Masterpiece became the Model 17.
135xx is an assembly number used to track parts in the factory. It has no meaning after the gun was completed.
665xxx is the serial number, these guns shared the same serial range as the .38 Military & Police, with production of the target sighted .22 beginning at serial number 632132 on January 23, 1931.
The grips are post 1968 Magna stocks. If you can find the originals they may add $400 to the guns value. As an example of a 1st Model K22 in excellent condition the gun could be worth beween $600 & $1000 with the original grips.
The patent dates refer to internal design changes made on most S&W Models in 1915.
Be aware that this gun lacks a postive hammer block safety. If dropped it could fire, so it should only be loaded with 5 rounds, with the chamber under the hammer left empty.

West716 · July 6, 2012, 07:51 AM

Radagast,
Thank you for the great information. I do have the original grips as well, and will follow your safety advice. I have 3 other older S&W revolvers, which I could figure out the model numbers, but that one was a tough one. Thanks again.

Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

biffellis · July 7, 2012, 02:54 PM

Its a .38 special
Double action
4" barrel
6 shot cylinder
square butt
3 screws on right side and 1 on trigger guard
right side barrel says "38 S&W Special CTG"
left side barrel says "SMITH & WESSON"
Serial number on butt is C 45615

I'd love to know what I have and how old it is

June 30, 2012, 05:38 AM	#4302
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	CRF450458: Your friend has a .38 Chiefs Special from 1952 or early 1953. In 1957 these were designated the Model 36. The number you quote (76938) is an assembly number, used to track parts in the factory. It's hard to tell with that pic, but it may have the early small trigger guard. If so it may bring a small premium from a collector. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

June 30, 2012, 08:03 PM	#4304
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	Yep, appears to be a small trigger guard version. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 1, 2012, 12:51 AM	#4305
Erik M Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,583	digging through an old chifferobe in my grandfathers basement, found and interesting Smith piece. It did not have an identifing mark beneath the crane, howeve it looks to be something akin to a model 10 to my brother and I. #S877076 he said it was taken on trade 40+ years ago, so it may not be an all factory parts gun. __________________ \| ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ \| "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." - George Mason, founding father & anti-federalist "A Glock pistol qualifies as an assault weapon." - Ed Schultz - MSNBC

July 1, 2012, 05:35 AM	#4306
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	Erik M: You have a .38 Military & Police Postwar (Transitional Model) manufactured between September 1945 & October 1947. This is considered a treansitional Model between the pre-war .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th change and the .38 Military & Police (Postwar) that became the Model 10. It should have the prewar Long Action, with the hammer having a longer throw than a Model 10. This gives a smoother trigger pull than the current Short Action. It wil also have the internal hammer block safety developed during WWII, hence the S prefix to the serial number, standing for safety. The .38 Military & Police Postwar had the internal hammer block and the new short action, from roughly August 1948, IIRC. In 1957 it was designated the Model 10. Prior to that there were no model numbers, just model names that were not stamped on the guns. TL,DR: 1945 to 1947, probably early 47, safe to load six, should be safe with any current standard pressure or PlusP ammo, should have a nice trigger, use the how to check out a revolver sticky at the top of this forum to make sure its safe to fire. Some collector interest, but only worth around $350 in excellent condition. Hope this helps. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 1, 2012, 07:53 PM	#4307
1/7GRUNT Member Join Date: May 31, 2008 Location: N MS Posts: 111	586-1 357 magnum 4 inch barrel square butt AUP2192 thanks in advance!! __________________ Semper Fi

July 1, 2012, 08:06 PM	#4308
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	1/7GRUNT: Your Model 586-1 Distinguished Combat Magnum was manufactured in early 1987. There is a recall on this model. With some magnum ammunition the primer can flow back into the firing pin bushing, locking up the gun. Under the recall S&W will pay shipping both ways and install a new firing pin and bushing. If your gun has already been modified there will be an M stamped near the model number under the cylinder yoke. If it hasn't been modified and you want to have it modified, then call S&W. They will send you a shipping label. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 1, 2012, 08:32 PM	#4309
1/7GRUNT Member Join Date: May 31, 2008 Location: N MS Posts: 111	Ah yes, i had read about that here and at the smith-wessonforum. So it is marked: M586-1, is that the M you are talking about or is that just model? Would it be a separate marking? __________________ Semper Fi

July 2, 2012, 08:04 AM	#4310
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	Normally it should say Model 586-1 M if modified, or Model 586-1 if unmodified. If it says Model M586-1 then I would say it's been modified. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 3, 2012, 04:54 PM	#4311
cwl1862 Member Join Date: December 6, 2009 Posts: 108	a) 38 spl b) 3" bbl c) RB d) 6 e) fixed f) 7D798XX g) 63-3 Thanks

July 3, 2012, 08:54 PM	#4312
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	cwl1862: Your Model 64-3 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1981. it's not a Model 63, as that was a .22lr. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 3, 2012, 10:42 PM	#4313
cwl1862 Member Join Date: December 6, 2009 Posts: 108	Oops sorry for the type-o! I wish I had a model 63 though!! However that one continues to elude me!! O well the hunt continues!!

July 4, 2012, 11:56 AM	#4314
slimpickens Member Join Date: January 29, 2010 Posts: 53	Old Lemon Squeezer Sir: Could you please date a S&W lemon squeezer for me. It is serial #196111. Has a three inch barrel, .32 caliber in blue finish.

July 4, 2012, 12:03 PM	#4315
bowman1962 Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 129	Old S&W 38 info needed Cal. 38 short 3in. bbl. round butt 5 shot Iron sights Ser# 188531 Thank you in advance, bowman1962 __________________ Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God. Benjamin Franklin

July 4, 2012, 12:27 PM	#4316
Maj Dad Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Carolina Low Country Posts: 1,265	Old Soldier Radagast, My friend has an old M&P/?1905 that his dad carried as a policeman right after WW2, and we're wondering wehn it was born. It was under water after Hurricane Betsy in Chalmette, LA, in '65, and though it cleaned up fairly well, it's still an old veteran which shows its age. I looked through some of the posts trying to get an idea but it has a barrel mark I'm not familiar with. On the left side of the bbl is marked "38 S&W Special" over "U.S. Service CTG'S" all between the two flanking markings (don't know what you call them). The pistols particulars are: 38 Spl 4" bbl SB 6 shot Fixed sights S.N. 85680 Thanks in advance, and thanks for all you've done for us! Cheers, George J. __________________ Maj, USAF (ret) Member, SCV Life Member VFW, DAV, TSRA and MOAA Benefactor Member, NRA

July 4, 2012, 09:59 PM	#4317
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	Maj Dad: Your friend has a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 manufactured in 1905 or 1906. Serial range for those years was 62450 to 73250. This gun predates heat treatment of cylinders and should only be shot with .standard pressure lead loads, no jacketed, semi jacketed, +P or +P+. It also predates the internal hammer block safety. If dropped it could fire, so leave the chamber under the hammer empty. .38 Service CTG is the .38 Long Colt, then the current US military revolver cartridge. bowman1962: Assuming a S&W and assuming chambered in .38 S&W CTG. If a break top with an external hammer, then you have a .38 Double Action 3rd model manufactured between 1884 & 1892 in the serial range 119001 to 264116. This is a black powder firearm, use of modern ammunition will cause accelerated wear and new parts are not available. It lacks a hammer block safety and should be loaded with 4 rounds only, leaving the chamber under the hammer empty. If a hammerless breaktop, then it is a .38 Safety Hammerless 4th Model, manufactured between 1904 & 1907. Again this is a black powder firearm. The grip safety makes the gun safe to load with 5 rounds. slimpickens: You have a .32 Safety Hammerless 3rd model manufactured between 1909 & March 1915. Serial range for those years was 170000 to 205477. If I had to guess I would say 1913/14. This gun was made after S&W started advertising them as safe fore smokeless powder, so modern ammo should be fine. Due to the grip safety it is safe to load 5 rounds. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 5, 2012, 07:26 AM	#4318
slimpickens Member Join Date: January 29, 2010 Posts: 53	Radagast, Thanks Again, Sir. Slimpickens

July 5, 2012, 11:48 AM	#4319
Maj Dad Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Carolina Low Country Posts: 1,265	Thanks again, Radagast - you're a gentleman and a scholar! __________________ Maj, USAF (ret) Member, SCV Life Member VFW, DAV, TSRA and MOAA Benefactor Member, NRA

July 5, 2012, 03:49 PM	#4320
Force5150 Member Join Date: July 5, 2012 Posts: 3	Need some help please Just got this S&W .38 from my grandfather-in-law's estate. My wife is bringing home to me. I don't have the barrel length yet but it is not a short barrell. Serial num 134833. Thanks for any info or help you can provide. I greatly appreciate it. I posted this under a different thread with picture. Now it won't let me upload picture again. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=267874 That is the link on this forum to my original post. Thanks.

July 5, 2012, 09:15 PM	#4321
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	Old Fuff has covered it in the other thread. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 6, 2012, 05:46 AM	#4323
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,371	West716: You have a K-22 Outdoorsman (K-22 1st Model) manufactured sometime between 1935 & 1940. S&W did not introduce model numbers until 1957, at which point the somewhat modified K22 Masterpiece became the Model 17. 135xx is an assembly number used to track parts in the factory. It has no meaning after the gun was completed. 665xxx is the serial number, these guns shared the same serial range as the .38 Military & Police, with production of the target sighted .22 beginning at serial number 632132 on January 23, 1931. The grips are post 1968 Magna stocks. If you can find the originals they may add $400 to the guns value. As an example of a 1st Model K22 in excellent condition the gun could be worth beween $600 & $1000 with the original grips. The patent dates refer to internal design changes made on most S&W Models in 1915. Be aware that this gun lacks a postive hammer block safety. If dropped it could fire, so it should only be loaded with 5 rounds, with the chamber under the hammer left empty. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

July 6, 2012, 07:51 AM	#4324
West716 Member Join Date: July 1, 2012 Posts: 2	Radagast, Thank you for the great information. I do have the original grips as well, and will follow your safety advice. I have 3 other older S&W revolvers, which I could figure out the model numbers, but that one was a tough one. Thanks again. Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

July 7, 2012, 02:54 PM	#4325
biffellis Member Join Date: July 7, 2012 Posts: 1	Don't know what I have except its a S&W .38 SPL Its a .38 special Double action 4" barrel 6 shot cylinder square butt 3 screws on right side and 1 on trigger guard right side barrel says "38 S&W Special CTG" left side barrel says "SMITH & WESSON" Serial number on butt is C 45615 I'd love to know what I have and how old it is