Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers - Page 28

KVS · March 16, 2009, 01:10 AM

Thank you for the reply, Radagast (the Brown).

However, my revolver does not seem to match either of those models. It does not have the extractor shroud of the Heavy Duty model, nor does it have the round butt, or "US Service CTG" after the .38 S&W Special CTG you mentioned on the second model. Very perplexing. I double checked the Serial number to make sure I had it correct (it was - 381029). I figured a picture or two might help so here they are:

This S&W has been in the possession of my step-brother since my Dad died nearly 11 years ago until I got it today. This revolver has been neglected for a long time and could use some TLC. Thanks again for your help, Radagast! It's much appreciated!

Oyeboten · March 16, 2009, 02:59 AM

Hi Radagast,

Quote:

Oyeboten: You have a .38 Military & Police 1st Model (Model of 1899 Army-Navy Revolver), manufactured from 1899 to 1902, in the serial number range 1-20975. In excellent condition the Standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $1200 in 2006. Your revolver is the earliest ancestor of today's model 10, model 64 and model 67 revolvers, it was the first swing out cylinder .38 special revolver. Pics would be appreciated by the gun nerds here, me in included. :P

Thank you...

Pics and real inspection soon as it gets here...bought it a while back, waiting for it to arrive.

Probably Factory Nickle, and has some corrosion spots.

We shall see...

Oyeboten · March 16, 2009, 03:08 AM

Oooops...

Radagast · March 16, 2009, 06:52 AM

KVS I read the serial number incorrectly as 38129, not 381029. What you have is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 - 4th Change. Serial number range was 241704 to 1000000 manufactured between 1915 & 1942. Heat treated cylinders were standard after number 316648, so you have one of the stronger ones.
Your square butt is rare, the grips are not original to the gun as they should have the uncheckered diamond around the grip screws.

Serial range 500,000 was shipped around 1927, so your gun dates from between 1915 & 1927.

Radagast · March 16, 2009, 07:38 AM

Oyeboten: Thanks for posting the picture. The nickel finish was a factory option on that model and the grips are also correct for that model. Based on the level of finish, I would say your gun meets the Standard Catalog of S&W requirements for 'good' condition, giving it a value of around $375 in 2006.

KVS · March 16, 2009, 08:16 AM

Thank your for the fantastic information, Radagast! It's much appreciated!

George757 · March 16, 2009, 03:32 PM

Approximate D.O.B. (please) for two Victory S&W's, both 4",.38 spec.
The first is ser.# V229,5XX
The second is ser.# V233,8XX
Thanks

Radagast · March 16, 2009, 08:01 PM

George757: Your Victory model revolvers were produced during WWII. Serial number range range from V1 to V769,000 was used between 1942 & September 1944 when the SV prefix was introduced along with a hammer block safety. Standard barrel length was four inches, caliber was .38 special, with a sandblast finish. Factory two inch, nickel finish and US Navy marked versions are rare and attract a premium form collectors, but would probably require a factory letter tp prove they aren't fakes.

If chambered in .38/200 (.38 S&W) then you have a couple of British Service Revolvers, these were manufactured in the same serial range as the Victory Model normally with a five in barrel and chambered for the British service cartridge, a .38 S&W with a heavy bullet.

George757 · March 16, 2009, 09:00 PM

Thanks,
These are both marked "U.S. Navy". Is there any way to narrow down the month & year?

Radagast · March 16, 2009, 11:50 PM

George757: If US Navy marked on the topstrap, the value increases by 50% to 100%. If marked Property of US Navy below the thumb release then add 100% to 200% to the value.
In excellent condition in 2006 a Victory Model was worth $600, per the Standard Catalog of S&W.
You need to get a letter from Roy Jinks, the historian at S&W. He will look up the original shipping records to find out which organization ordered them and where and when they shipped. Call S&W directly and ask how to go about this. It will set you back $50 per gun, but will increase the value by much more.

Radagast · March 16, 2009, 11:54 PM

mdf60:
Try in order:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/ These are the equivalent of the wrecking yard for guns.
If no luck there try http://www.armchairgunshow.com/ This used to be owned by one of the authors of the Standard Catalog of S&W.
If no luck there register and ask at www.smith-wesson.com
If no luck there you'll need to haunt auction sites such as www.gunbroker.com , www.gunsamerica.com & www.auctionarms.com

Radagast · March 17, 2009, 12:07 AM

MacAdrian: I'm as little confused by your post.
It sound like you have a J Frame S&W.
These include:
Model 36 (blued or nickel, steel frame, exposed hammer)
Model 37 (Blued or nickel, aluminum frame, exposed hammer)
Model 49 (Blued or Nickel, steel frame, shrouded hammer)
Model 60 (Stainless steel, exposed hammer.
All fall in the same serial number range.
The Standard Catalog of S&W gives the range 295000 to 786544 from 1962 to 1969. If the cylinder latch is flat rather than dished then your gun was manufactured prior to 1966. If it has the original timber grips and there is an un-checkered diamond around the grip screws then it was manufactured prior to 1968.
Short of paying $50 for a letter from the S&W factory historian, this is as close as you will get to dating it.

Oyeboten · March 17, 2009, 12:54 AM

Thanks Radagast..!

What a fun thread!

Phil

George757 · March 17, 2009, 10:58 AM

Radagast,
Thanks! Great thread.
George

Luis Leon · March 18, 2009, 09:01 PM

Radagast,

Approximate date of birth of two Smiths, please.

model 19-3 6k929xx

model 60 AHE02xx

best regards,

Luis Leon

petecg81 · March 18, 2009, 10:29 PM

Here is one I got from my grandfather it has a 6 inch barrel. It is stamped SMITH & WESSON, SPRINGFIELD, MASS. on the top of the barrel. Serial number on the butt is 26129. I believe it is a .32, but I have yet to measure it.

Radagast · March 18, 2009, 11:51 PM

Luis Leon: Your model 19 was made in 1975 in the serial number range 6K58918 to 8K20763.

Your model 60 was made between January 1985 (AHA0667) & July 1985 (AHS0001).

Radagast · March 19, 2009, 12:06 AM

PETECG81: You almost certainly have a S&W Number Two Old Model. Manufactured between 1861 & 1874 in the serial number range 1-77155.
Common barrel lengths were 5 " & 6" with some 4" & 8".

Caliber was .32 rimfire, the cylinder should have 6 chambers.
Patent dates on the barrel should be April 3, 1855. July 5, 1859 & Dec 18, 1860.
Finishs available were blue, nickle, silver engraved and some specials.
Grips are rosewood.
According to the Standard Catalog of S&W the Model Number Two was a popular privately purchased gun during the civil war, but was not purchased by either government.

Assuming all parts are original and the gun functions, it would be considered to be in very good condition, with a value of $550 in 2006.

petecg81 · March 19, 2009, 01:28 AM

Radagast,
Apperciate the info!

Petecg81

Luis Leon · March 19, 2009, 07:11 PM

Radagast, thank you very much for the information. Could you reach back into your fountain of lore for a few more please?

model 17 sn#371xx

model 41 sn#UAK23xx

model 63 sn#BNY41xx

model 19 sn#ADS69xx

best regards,

Luis Leon

Radagast · March 19, 2009, 07:31 PM

Luis Leon:

Your model 17 should have a K somewhere in the serial number. Check on the bottom of the grip frame, as the serial number is always stamped there. The serial number is sometimes stamped on the frame under the yoke, but often that is an assembly number for keeping track of parts at the factory.

Your model 41 was probably made in 1997 or 1998, serial number prefixes are recorded in the Standard Catalog of S&W of UAM in 1997 & VHN in 1998.

Your model 63 is from 1993. Prefix BNW was issued in March, BPD in October.

Your model 19 was manufactured in late 1982. serial number prefix ADE was issued in October, ADT in December.

Luis Leon · March 19, 2009, 08:26 PM

Radagast,

Thank you for you great thread. You are amazing sir. May your beard grow ever longer! Here is the proper sn# for the model 17

model 17 sn#k371xx

best regards,

Luis Leon

Radagast · March 19, 2009, 09:08 PM

Luis Leon:
It's not my thread, there are others contributing as well.

The serial number range K18732 to K73121 was used during 1948. This would make your revolver a K22 Masterpiece, the K22 Masterpiece was renamed the Model 17 in 1957.

dogrunner · March 20, 2009, 02:05 PM

Oro, many thanks & sorry for such a late one......FYI picked that gun up in a pawn shop in '66.......had the factory re-nickle & engrave it......at that time they dated the repair on the frame & stamped the star logo in various spots, carried it till the late '80s a duty gun..............fact is just ran about half a box of 168 gr. 7.5 Unique thru her today & it STILL shoots as good as it ever did..............gun has a set of Roper's on it as well.........I'll see if I can manage a photo...........thanks again.

dasmi · March 20, 2009, 05:33 PM

I just bought a K-38 Masterpiece, six in barrel. There's no model number on it, the barrel is stamped .38 S&W Special CTG. Has serialized, correct grips. Serial is K793XX. What's the approximate age of this gun?

March 16, 2009, 06:52 AM	#679
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	KVS I read the serial number incorrectly as 38129, not 381029. What you have is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 - 4th Change. Serial number range was 241704 to 1000000 manufactured between 1915 & 1942. Heat treated cylinders were standard after number 316648, so you have one of the stronger ones. Your square butt is rare, the grips are not original to the gun as they should have the uncheckered diamond around the grip screws. Serial range 500,000 was shipped around 1927, so your gun dates from between 1915 & 1927. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 16, 2009, 07:38 AM	#680
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	Oyeboten: Thanks for posting the picture. The nickel finish was a factory option on that model and the grips are also correct for that model. Based on the level of finish, I would say your gun meets the Standard Catalog of S&W requirements for 'good' condition, giving it a value of around $375 in 2006. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 16, 2009, 08:01 PM	#683
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	George757: Your Victory model revolvers were produced during WWII. Serial number range range from V1 to V769,000 was used between 1942 & September 1944 when the SV prefix was introduced along with a hammer block safety. Standard barrel length was four inches, caliber was .38 special, with a sandblast finish. Factory two inch, nickel finish and US Navy marked versions are rare and attract a premium form collectors, but would probably require a factory letter tp prove they aren't fakes. If chambered in .38/200 (.38 S&W) then you have a couple of British Service Revolvers, these were manufactured in the same serial range as the Victory Model normally with a five in barrel and chambered for the British service cartridge, a .38 S&W with a heavy bullet. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 16, 2009, 11:50 PM	#685
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	George757: If US Navy marked on the topstrap, the value increases by 50% to 100%. If marked Property of US Navy below the thumb release then add 100% to 200% to the value. In excellent condition in 2006 a Victory Model was worth $600, per the Standard Catalog of S&W. You need to get a letter from Roy Jinks, the historian at S&W. He will look up the original shipping records to find out which organization ordered them and where and when they shipped. Call S&W directly and ask how to go about this. It will set you back $50 per gun, but will increase the value by much more. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 16, 2009, 11:54 PM	#686
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	mdf60: Try in order: http://www.e-gunparts.com/ These are the equivalent of the wrecking yard for guns. If no luck there try http://www.armchairgunshow.com/ This used to be owned by one of the authors of the Standard Catalog of S&W. If no luck there register and ask at www.smith-wesson.com If no luck there you'll need to haunt auction sites such as www.gunbroker.com , www.gunsamerica.com & www.auctionarms.com __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 16, 2009, 01:10 AM	#676
KVS Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 3	Thank you for the reply, Radagast (the Brown). However, my revolver does not seem to match either of those models. It does not have the extractor shroud of the Heavy Duty model, nor does it have the round butt, or "US Service CTG" after the .38 S&W Special CTG you mentioned on the second model. Very perplexing. I double checked the Serial number to make sure I had it correct (it was - 381029). I figured a picture or two might help so here they are: This S&W has been in the possession of my step-brother since my Dad died nearly 11 years ago until I got it today. This revolver has been neglected for a long time and could use some TLC. Thanks again for your help, Radagast! It's much appreciated!

March 16, 2009, 03:08 AM	#678
Oyeboten Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 3,696	Oooops...

March 16, 2009, 08:16 AM	#681
KVS Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 3	Thank your for the fantastic information, Radagast! It's much appreciated!

March 16, 2009, 03:32 PM	#682
George757 Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Merritt Island, FL Posts: 62	Approximate D.O.B. (please) for two Victory S&W's, both 4",.38 spec. The first is ser.# V229,5XX The second is ser.# V233,8XX Thanks

March 16, 2009, 09:00 PM	#684
George757 Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Merritt Island, FL Posts: 62	Thanks, These are both marked "U.S. Navy". Is there any way to narrow down the month & year?

March 17, 2009, 12:07 AM	#687
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	MacAdrian: I'm as little confused by your post. It sound like you have a J Frame S&W. These include: Model 36 (blued or nickel, steel frame, exposed hammer) Model 37 (Blued or nickel, aluminum frame, exposed hammer) Model 49 (Blued or Nickel, steel frame, shrouded hammer) Model 60 (Stainless steel, exposed hammer. All fall in the same serial number range. The Standard Catalog of S&W gives the range 295000 to 786544 from 1962 to 1969. If the cylinder latch is flat rather than dished then your gun was manufactured prior to 1966. If it has the original timber grips and there is an un-checkered diamond around the grip screws then it was manufactured prior to 1968. Short of paying $50 for a letter from the S&W factory historian, this is as close as you will get to dating it. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 17, 2009, 12:54 AM	#688
Oyeboten Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 3,696	Thanks Radagast..! What a fun thread! Phil

March 17, 2009, 10:58 AM	#689
George757 Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Merritt Island, FL Posts: 62	Radagast, Thanks! Great thread. George

March 18, 2009, 09:01 PM	#690
Luis Leon Member Join Date: January 30, 2004 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 231	Radagast, Approximate date of birth of two Smiths, please. model 19-3 6k929xx model 60 AHE02xx best regards, Luis Leon

March 18, 2009, 11:51 PM	#692
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	Luis Leon: Your model 19 was made in 1975 in the serial number range 6K58918 to 8K20763. Your model 60 was made between January 1985 (AHA0667) & July 1985 (AHS0001). __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 19, 2009, 12:06 AM	#693
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	PETECG81: You almost certainly have a S&W Number Two Old Model. Manufactured between 1861 & 1874 in the serial number range 1-77155. Common barrel lengths were 5 " & 6" with some 4" & 8". Caliber was .32 rimfire, the cylinder should have 6 chambers. Patent dates on the barrel should be April 3, 1855. July 5, 1859 & Dec 18, 1860. Finishs available were blue, nickle, silver engraved and some specials. Grips are rosewood. According to the Standard Catalog of S&W the Model Number Two was a popular privately purchased gun during the civil war, but was not purchased by either government. Assuming all parts are original and the gun functions, it would be considered to be in very good condition, with a value of $550 in 2006. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 19, 2009, 01:28 AM	#694
petecg81 Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 2	Radagast, Apperciate the info! Petecg81

March 19, 2009, 07:11 PM	#695
Luis Leon Member Join Date: January 30, 2004 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 231	Radagast, thank you very much for the information. Could you reach back into your fountain of lore for a few more please? model 17 sn#371xx model 41 sn#UAK23xx model 63 sn#BNY41xx model 19 sn#ADS69xx best regards, Luis Leon

March 19, 2009, 07:31 PM	#696
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	Luis Leon: Your model 17 should have a K somewhere in the serial number. Check on the bottom of the grip frame, as the serial number is always stamped there. The serial number is sometimes stamped on the frame under the yoke, but often that is an assembly number for keeping track of parts at the factory. Your model 41 was probably made in 1997 or 1998, serial number prefixes are recorded in the Standard Catalog of S&W of UAM in 1997 & VHN in 1998. Your model 63 is from 1993. Prefix BNW was issued in March, BPD in October. Your model 19 was manufactured in late 1982. serial number prefix ADE was issued in October, ADT in December. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 19, 2009, 08:26 PM	#697
Luis Leon Member Join Date: January 30, 2004 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 231	Radagast, Thank you for you great thread. You are amazing sir. May your beard grow ever longer! Here is the proper sn# for the model 17 model 17 sn#k371xx best regards, Luis Leon

March 19, 2009, 09:08 PM	#698
Radagast Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 3,373	Luis Leon: It's not my thread, there are others contributing as well. The serial number range K18732 to K73121 was used during 1948. This would make your revolver a K22 Masterpiece, the K22 Masterpiece was renamed the Model 17 in 1957. __________________ If you're 6'4" 360, with the scraggly beard wearing a kilt, I think you can leave the guns at home. Just throw on your tartan, grab the nearest sledgehammer, and chase the bad guy down on foot while yelling "REMEMBER WILLIAM WALLACE!!!" If he stops before he hits the state line, splatter him - MGshaggy

March 20, 2009, 02:05 PM	#699
dogrunner Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: E/Cntrl Fla. Posts: 919	Oro, many thanks & sorry for such a late one......FYI picked that gun up in a pawn shop in '66.......had the factory re-nickle & engrave it......at that time they dated the repair on the frame & stamped the star logo in various spots, carried it till the late '80s a duty gun..............fact is just ran about half a box of 168 gr. 7.5 Unique thru her today & it STILL shoots as good as it ever did..............gun has a set of Roper's on it as well.........I'll see if I can manage a photo...........thanks again.

March 20, 2009, 05:33 PM	#700
dasmi Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: CA Posts: 2,777	I just bought a K-38 Masterpiece, six in barrel. There's no model number on it, the barrel is stamped .38 S&W Special CTG. Has serialized, correct grips. Serial is K793XX. What's the approximate age of this gun? __________________ "You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul." -Mahatma Gandhi