Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers

[Sooner]

My first revolver, of which I'm mighty proud:

1) .357
2) 6 in.
3) square grip
4) 6 round cylinder
5) adjustable, dovetail rear-sight
6) 53855, also an A5 to the left of the ssn, an S above it, and F45 to the right of it
Additional letters/numbers on the bottom of the grip: AUW 8086



Thank you kindly.

[Radagast]

Sooner:
Your 66-2 was manufactured sometime between January 1986 (AHCxxxx) & July 1987 (AWWxxxx). The 66-2 was manufactured between 1982 and 1986, so late 1986 is my guess.
AUWxxxx is the serial number, the other stampings are assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory.

[MetalHead]

Don't need a date of birth so much as info to make sure I order the right cylinder stop spring for my friends Smith.

It is a 38S&W, 6" fixed sights with British proof marks, serial #702xxx.
The most interesting is a London Nitro Proof for parabellum pistols, it's a arm holding a sword overhead with NP next to it.
Also in that area are .38 and .767 with 3.5 TONS underneath.
Crown over interlaced CP on all chambers and frame, this are all poorly struck as at first I thought it was a statue of liberty style crown but when I looked at all of them together I see hints it is a normal British style crown, just poorly struck and maybe done with damaged stamps. Nothing stamped property of, and it is all original parts with a blued finish.
TIA

[MetalHead]

OOPS

[Radagast]

Metalhead:
Your friend has a commercial contract British Service Revolver (Pre Victory Model if you like). It was manufactured in 1940 or 1941. These are basically the S&W Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change in .38 S&W.
.38 is the caliber, .767 is the case length, 3.5 tons is the proof load. The British used tons rather than PSI.
The British Service Revolver was chambered for 380 Revolver, a 38 S&W cartridge with a 200 grain bullet. Hence S&W marking them as .38 S&W.
A crown over a superposed CP was the blackpowder proof for shotguns, I don't know what it was doing on a revolver.
If there is a broad arrow stamping that would be the British property mark, these guns were made before the Lend Lease agreement that gave access to US owned arms. If it lacks a Broad Arrow it may have been privately sold, which was still possible in England, if rare. Think of it as 'May Issue' for the right to purchase a gun. All arms sold in England had to pass proof, hence the proof stampings. I've seen Colt Single Action Armies and S&W lemon squeezers with proof stampings.

I would contact Numrich Arms http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ for the part. The Model of 1905 part should interchange if they don't have a BSR in stock. Numrich are probably the biggest gun wrecking company in the world. Otherwise phone S&W and chack if their current part will fit.

[sara]

Okay, I'm new here and I'm really curious about this gun. Any help would be appreciated.
1. S&W .38 caliber
2. 4"
3. round grip
4. 6 cylinder
5. fixed sight
6. V506xxx
It is also marked on the left side with Osterreich Polizei
Any ballpark value would be appreciated. It's in pretty good shape and I believe has the orginal finish and no modifications.
Thanks

[Radagast]

sara:
You have a S&W Victory Model, manufactured between 1941 and 1944 and issued to the Austrian Police after WWII.
If the barrel is stamped .38 S&W CTG or has British markings such as a broad arrow stamp, then the barrel has been cut down from the original five inches and was originally a British Service Revolver (made concurrently with the Victory model) many of these had the barrel cut and the cylinder bored out to accept .38 Special cartridges.
If the gun is modified then value is low, around $150 or so.

If the barrel is stamped .38 S&W Special then it is probably a Victory Model made for the US Govt. In 2006 the Standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $600 in excellent condition, $425 in very good condition.
The trick is to find a collector who wants an Austrian marked gun to fill out his collection and is willing to pay that price, otherwise it is probably worth around $300 in the retail market.
Pics will help us to identify and value it.

[sara]

Here's the pictures. Hope they help. I also remeasured the barrel length after rereading your instructions. From the front of the barrel to the tip of the barrel measures 5 inches.

[kansersurvivor]

S&W 13-1
4"
Nickel
.357
Square
#3D143xx
fixed sights
6 shot

Thanks

[coachman48]

Any info on these will be much appreciated. Thanks Bob

#1
A: 41 magnum
B: 4 inch
C; Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Fixed
F: S2952XX
G: Model 58

#2
A: 41 Magnum
B: 4 inch
C: Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Fixed
F: N2725XX
G: Model 58

#3
A: 41 Magnum
B: 4 inch
C: Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Adjustable
F: N6513XX
G: Model 57

#4
A: 22
B: 4 inch
C: Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Adjustable
F: M1056XX
G: Model 63

#5
A: 22
B: 4 inch
C: Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Adjustable
F: M1226XX
G: Model 63

#6
A: 38 Special
B: 2 inch
C:
D: 5 Shots
E: fixed
F: J2498XX
G: Model 36

#7
A: 357 Magnum
B: 4 inch
C: Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Adjustable
F: 9K89XX
G: Model 66

Thanks again
Bob

[Radagast]

sara:
It appears to be a British Service Revolver, so it should be in .38 S&W caliber. If it chambers a .38 special then it has been converted.
Assuming it hasn't been converted and is mechanically sound I would rate it as very good condition.
If you are looking to sell it I suggest you check out www.smith-wesson.forum as you are more likely to find a buyer there. An unconverted British Service Revolver would be hard to sell as a shooter as the cartridge is relatively rare and expensive compared to .38 Special.

[Radagast]

kanser survivor:
Your Model 13 .357 magnum Miltiary & Police Heavy Barrel was probably made in 1978. The Standard Catalog of S&W notes serial range 2D80001 to 2D99999 in 1978 & 4D00001 to 6D10000 in 1979. I expect the missing 3Dxxxxx serial range is the missing 100,000 units of production on 1978.

[Radagast]

coachman48:
Gun No.1 is a Model 58 .41 Magnum Military & Police manufactured in 1967 to 1968.
Originally introduced in 1964 and discontinued in 1977 with around 20,287 units manufactured, it was not the success S&W expected in the police market.
The Model 58 had a service trigger and hammer, fixed sights and Magna combat grips. Yours should have the uncheckered diamond around the grip screws if they are original to the gun.
In 2006 the Standard Catalog of S&W gave the following values:
ANIB $800, Excellent $700, Very Good $450, Good $325, Fair $265, Poor $175.

Gun number 2 was manufactured in 1966-1967.

Gun Number 3, the .41 Magnum Target was manufactured in 1979-1980. The Model 57 was produced from 1964 to 1993, with a number of 4 inch tapered barrel mountain guns produced in 2005. The Model 57 came with target trigger and hammer, adjustable white outline rear sight, and Goncalo Alves target stocks.

Gun number 4, the .22/32 Kit Gun Stainless was manufactured in 1978 or 1979. Originally produced as the blued steel Model 34 on the .32 caliber 'I' Frame, hence the .22/32 name, the Model 63 was only manufactured on the slightly larger J frame.

Gun number 5 was also produced in 1978 or 1979. 1979 seems likely as the serial range for those years was M100000 to M130000.

Gun Number 6, the Model 36 Chiefs Special was produced between 1957 (serial number 125000) and 1962 (serial number 295000). Yours should have a flat latch and this may bring a small premium if sold to a collector.

Gun number 7, the .357 Combat Magnum Stainless was produced in 1975. First production models had a stainless steel rear sight, later guns had a black rear sight with white outline.

[coachman48]

Radagast,

Thanks for the fast reply, # 1 does have the Diamond grips that are numbered too the gun.

Thanks
Bob

[sara]

Thanks Radagast. I'll check out the website, too. I know my gun doesn't interchange with rounds used by a .45 so I'm thinking it must not be converted to a special. Great information here, thanks again.

[jeff kelland]

Not to get too off-topic, but I'm trying to track down the (Most likely) post war history of a Victory Model. Ser. # is V420xxx, not british, lend lease, etc. but on the left side of frame is stamped DNCD and then KLA 5 below that, appears to be done by end user, not factory. Any ideas?? Appreciate any help that can be provided. Thanks

[driver8660]

have a "38 S. & W. Special CTG" given to me with serial# 133298 on the butt, on the six shot revolver, and barrel. also the numbers 1618 on the frame and revolver holder. on top of the barrel is the usual smith and wessen springfield, mass. usa stamped on it with various dates, the last being FEB. 6, 06. it has a blued finish with wood checkered grips that do not have the symbol on it. it has a diamond shape in the middle of the grip where the screw
that attaches it to the frame is. it has a four inch barrel. has 133298 written in pencil on the inside of the right grip. wood appears to be walnut. any age and value info would be appreciated.

[Radagast]

Jeff Kelland:
I can't help you with that, Xavier (moderator) has a copy of America's Right Arm http://www.idsabooks.com/cgi-bin/idb455/100067 You could PM and ask him if it is listed. The Author's of the Standard Catalog of S&W recommend US Handguns of World War II, the secondary pistols and revolvers by Charles W Pate, 1998. If you can find a copy there may be info in there. Again, I don't have this book.
If it lacks the US property markings it may have been sold for civilian use, for example a defence plant or post office.

[Radagast]

sara:
You will never find a medium framed revolver converted to fire .45 caliber bullets. There have been some rare (and expensive) conversions of large frame revolvers, but you could buy a newly manufactured gun for the cost of the conversion.

The 38 S&W Special is longer than the the .38 S&W case, but slightly narrower at the rim. This meant that the cylinder of a .38 S&W revolver could be drilled out to accept the .38 special, but it would be a loose fit, with the chance of cases splitting if fired with higher pressure rounds. This is why conversions are not considered very valuable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_S%26W
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_S%26W_Special

[Radagast]

driver8660:
You have a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 1st change manufactured between 1906 and 1909.
It lacks the modern hammer block safety, so it should not be kept loaded with a round under the hammer.
It predates heat treating of cylinders, so do not use PlusP, +P+ or jacketed rounds.
Standard pressure lead ammunition is the way to go.
The grips are Walnut and are correct to the gun, they did not have monogrammes on the timber grips at that time.
In 2006 the Standard Catalog of S&W gave the following values:
ANIB $1500, Excellent Plus $600, Excellent $385, Very Good $285, Good $225, Fair $150, Poor $85.

[coachman48]

Have one more. Thanks Bob

A: 45 Colt
B: 8 3/8 inch
C: Square
D: 6 Shots
E: Adjustable
F: N7178XX
G: Model 25-5

Thanks
Bob

[Radagast]

coachman48:
Your Model 25-5 dates to 1980.

[Sigma35073]

Nickle plated
3 1/4" barrel
5 screw
leaf spring
S/N 546304
32 Long CTG
6 shooter
round butt
non adjustable rear sight
When you swing out the cylinder there is 8878 with a capital S below it.
The grips are plastic imitation stag. I'm sure they are not original.

I would like to buy some original grips if someone might know where, otherwise something like Pachmayr.

Thanks

[Radagast]

Sigma35073:
You have a post war .32 Hand Ejector manufactured between 1946 and 1956. Postwar manufacture started again at serial number 536585 and by 1956 had hit serial 640980, so yours is probably from the earlier end of the date range.

If there is a screw in front of the trigger guard and another in the front of the grip frame, then your gun was built on the I frame and is from 1953 or earlier. If the two screws are not present then it was built on the improved I frame and dates to 1953 or later.
In 1957 the .32 Hand Ejector was designated the Model 30.
The above info will be helpfull in sourcing new grips. Factory grips were checkered walnut Magna style.
Try Numrich arms for spares. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ or surf the various gun auction sites such as gunsamerica, auctionarms, armsbid, etc.

The S & 8878 are assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory and are irrelevant once the gun is shipped.

[Gladius]

Hi, I have a couple....

An M&P "pencil Barrel":
a) .38 Special
b) 4 inch
c) Square butt
d) 6
e) fixed
f) serial number 419XXX, and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip = C
g) Model number if it is under the crane: None there

A K-22
a) .22 LR
b) 4 inch
c) square butt
d) 6
e) Adjustable
f) serial number: 171xxx and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: K
g) Model number if it is under the crane: None there

1917 (converted to .45 Colt)
a) .45
b) 5 1/2 inch
c) square butt
d) 6
e) Adjustable
f) serial number: 30XX and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: S
g) Model number if it is under the crane: None there

M25-5
a) .45 colt
b) 6 inch
c) square butt
d) 6
e) Adjustable
f) serial number: N 718XXX and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: unknown
g) Model number 25-5

45 Cal. Model of 1955
a) .45 ACP
b) 6 inch
c) square butt
d) 6
e) Adjustable
f) serial number: N 734XXX and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: unknown
g) Model number: 25-2

M29
a).44 Magnum
b) 6 1/2 inch
c) square butt
d) 6
e) Adjustable
f) serial number: N 489xxx and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: Unknown
g) Model number 29-2

Model 60 No dash
a) .38 Special
b) 2 inch
c) Round butt
d) 5
e) Fixed
f) serial number: 621XXX and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: No
g) Model number: 60

629
a) .44 Magnum
b) 6 inch
c) square butt
d) 6
e) Adjustable
f) serial number: BFB 0XXX and if there is a letter in front of or anywhere near the s/n on the bottom of the grip: Unknown
g) Model number: 629-3