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Old July 23, 2010, 08:11 AM   #451
308win
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So far the feral hogs seem to be in greatest abundance in the south eastern part of the state; lot of national forest land, state parks, reclaimed strip mine property under management by DNR. Wait until they get to the central part of the state where there are a lot of row crop farms; then you will hear about the problem big time.
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Old July 23, 2010, 09:42 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintknapper View Post
Ohio wildlife officials and biologists need to consult with those from Texas, Florida and Georgia.

I have no doubt.....the personnel in Ohio are competent....but hogs are a "whole 'nother critter" and efforts to control them in Ohio is in it's infancy.

If the problem is not corrected quickly, Ohio will have a PERMANENT feral hog population (not a good thing).

The situation must be taken with all seriousness and every resource used.

There isn't time for Wildlife Biologists to go through a "learning curve".

The hogs will establish themselves before Wildlife Officials learn all the tricks of the trade.

I hope they will contact other States and seek advice.
Don't send them down here. FWC (Florida's Fish and Game) is useless.

And it really doesn't matter what you do they are going to become a problem. A study done by the University of Florida found that in order to MAINTAIN a population of pigs you have to kill 80% of the population each year.

80%. Think about that for a minute.

There aren't enough hunters or natural predators to accomplish that. Not even close. Given that and the pigs adaptability, it's wide range of food sources and the fact they're built like tanks, it doesn't matter what you do, if they're there the population is going to explode.
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Old July 23, 2010, 10:14 AM   #453
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308win wrote:

Quote:
So far the feral hogs seem to be in greatest abundance in the south eastern part of the state; lot of national forest land, state parks, reclaimed strip mine property under management by DNR. Wait until they get to the central part of the state where there are a lot of row crop farms; then you will hear about the problem big time.

If they get that far....it will be a foregone conclusion that the battle is lost.
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Old July 23, 2010, 10:48 AM   #454
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FLAvalanche wrote:


Quote:
And it really doesn't matter what you do they are going to become a problem.
I agree, however....the problem can be minimized if aggressive measures are taken NOW.

I.E. trapping program by State Wildlife Bureau, Shoot on sight directive, Land owner assistance by State, Bounty in counties with largest populations, literature published and distributed to every person purchasing a hunting license, seminars (in counties with hog populations) that offer information about to control feral hog numbers, etc....


Quote:
A study done by the University of Florida found that in order to MAINTAIN a population of pigs you have to kill 80% of the population each year.
80%. Think about that for a minute.
That may be true in Florida....but it wouldn't hold up Nationally. Conditions vary widely from one location to the next.

The Florida study basically implies that there is a 20% natural mortality rate each year....and in order to "maintain" numbers, an additional 80% would need to be taken by hunters/trappers/agents.

The question is: Is the study correct....or is there some amount of hyperbole interjected.

Hogs are a problem, no question about it.



Quote:
There aren't enough hunters or natural predators to accomplish that. Not even close. Given that and the pigs adaptability, it's wide range of food sources and the fact they're built like tanks, it doesn't matter what you do, if they're there the population is going to explode.
I would concede that once a population if firmly established, it is nigh onto impossible to eradicate them, but..... that doesn't mean "all is lost" in terms of controlling their numbers. It is really a matter of how aggressive the State wants to be about addressing the problem.

Most of Florida is excellent habitat for hogs....so by default....it is harder to control their numbers. Most of the South falls into the same category.

My concern with Ohio....is that Feral Hogs will make it to the central part of the State where they can more easily increase their range by using large river systems as "highways".

At this point... in Ohio, its all a "numbers game". The feasibility of controlling several thousand hogs located primarily in one part of the State is very different from that of Texas/Florida (with a herds numbering in the millions).

You'll never be "rid of them" in Ohio, but an aggressive program NOW....will have impact. Unfortunately, there will probably be little support for the measures needed....until the problem is already out of hand.

IH8HOGS.........!
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Old July 23, 2010, 12:28 PM   #455
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Every last state that has hogs has tried. Every last state that has tried has failed.

Question the studies, question the environmental differences, Ohio is next. Pennsylvania will follow.

Hogs don't care about the environment and I would easily bet that the 80% holds up regardless of where they are. Ohio has nothing environmentally that will impede them and there is a heck of a lot more food for them in Ohio than Florida. They survive in hotter places than Ohio and colder places than Ohio. And no states have the funds to aggressively control them to stop them from becoming a problem.

Yes it could be stopped with the measures you outlined but let's face it, that aint gonna happen.
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Old July 23, 2010, 07:50 PM   #456
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Every State that has a Feral Hog problem "failed" alright.


They FAILED to take seriously the potential for hogs to spread and reproduce.

IF they had alloted the resources early on....instead of waiting for the problem to become epidemic, much of it could have been averted.

Ohio seems to recognize just how intrusive these animals are.....but I fear they will fail to act on it aggressively enough, in which case they will have a permanent population.

Hogs CAN be dealt with, but they are analogous to Cancer, they need to be detected and "treated" EARLY.

Unfortunately, in todays economy.....many States are struggling with their annual budgets. So.....Feral Hogs are probably far down the list of things to tend to.

In any case, they are a scourge....and only folks who don't own property, grow crops or have concern for the indigenous wildlife.... want them around.

I continue to be amazed at the number of people who say: "I wish we hogs around here".
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Old July 25, 2010, 06:47 PM   #457
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Nice thread, good pics. I've been planning a texas pig trip for a while, seeing things like this make me want it even more I did one to Oklahoma a few years ago, only found 1 pig though. I found my .444 turns a sprinting boar into meat even with a texas heart shot.

Anyway, I do some euro work on skulls. If you were interested in making a few bucks you could probably sell the skulls on taxidermy.net since you seem to have a steady supply. Even small critters like racoons and coyotes tend to go for $5 and up each, with the buyer paying shipping. Not sure what a pig would go for, but if he has nice cutters probably pretty decent money all things considered. Probably at least cover your corn and ammo bill. I know I wouldn't mind a few big ones with some tusks on him. I do mainly deer and antelope around here, pick up a few others whenever I can to help keep my bugs fed and to experiment and practice with.

Personally I wouldn't mind getting paid to hunt if the pay paid for the hunt itself.

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Old July 25, 2010, 07:11 PM   #458
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You use Dermestid beetles?

Nice looking work.
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Old July 25, 2010, 07:27 PM   #459
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where do you get the beetles??? id love to get some for bear season to make some money cleaning skulls for the buys i hunt with
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Old July 25, 2010, 10:29 PM   #460
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all thos pics and your comments would make a nice little book(even if you only make one copy for yourself).
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Old July 26, 2010, 09:10 AM   #461
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Flintknapper,

I just stumbled onto this thread. All I can say is WOW. VA has just started "Open Season" on some Feral Hogs that apparently escaped from a soon to be "game preserve". Apparently most are on private property and are "under control". Not sure what this exactly means, but I think we will soon be hearing other parts of the story here.

Good luck and if you'd like some help, it looks like you'd have plenty of takers.
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Old July 26, 2010, 06:17 PM   #462
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Give me a break please.......!

Oh brother……….!

Hopefully, this group is just passing through, but if they decide to stay….I’ll have to start baiting them toward the trap. Thankfully, the pen trap is only about 50 yds from where this pic was taken.

Looks like three young sows, a juvenile Boar and a passel of little ones.






Its no wonder…they can’t be eradicated when they breed as young as they do (8-12 months old).

You can see how young and small this sow is, yet she has piglets that are already 30-40 days old. I’ll bet…she’s barely a year old herself. Sheeeeesh!

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Old July 26, 2010, 07:17 PM   #463
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I wholeheartedly agree with you Flintknapper. It's almost always taken seriously too late and when it becomes too expensive to fight.

Yep, it's amazing at how fast these animals grow and become sexually mature. I was suprised by it this very weekend...

About 7 months ago me and my girlfriend visited my hunting plot to change the memory card on the camera and came home with a piglet. Long story...I wanted to kill it but she would have none of it and the deal was she could keep it and raise it back to health but it had to get its nuts cut off and was either out the door by the time it was 20lbs or I was putting it in the freezer with it's aunt and uncle.

He's now living with a friend in the country is almost 8 months old and is already over 100 lbs.

What really amazed me was that it remembered me. I have to admit, I softened up to the thing while we had it and taught it to come when called a certain way and taught it to sit like a dog. Well, it was in the corner of the pen and didn't see me so I called him like I did 6 months ago and his ears perked up and he came flying to my side of the pen and damn near climbed over the fence to get to me.

Still remembers how to sit too...
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Old July 27, 2010, 03:05 AM   #464
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"where do you get the beetles??? id love to get some for bear season to make some money cleaning skulls for the buys i hunt with"

Just like everything else, you can find them on the internet Started with 500 or so, takes about 6 months to get the colony to a size to do a deer. I let the colony die down during the summer, when it's in full swing there's probably 10-20k in the tank. You can hear them eat, kind of creepy :laugh:

The bugs are the easy part, actually getting all the grease out and whitening is where the work's involved.

Before and after

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Old July 27, 2010, 03:15 AM   #465
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That is a seriously evil looking mount you have there. Nice work
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Old July 27, 2010, 10:45 AM   #466
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Well…….looks like they’re gonna stay.. (sigh……).

As is typical of a herd of young hogs….they have started coming in earlier to feed. This tells me two things:

1. They feel unpressured.
2. I have been successful controlling my scent when I put out corn and check the camera.

The herd came in nearly 2 hours earlier than the previous night.




The following pic shows why I don’t jump up and go check the camera first thing in the morning. Not only did the hogs come in earlier last night…but they came in this morning too. (probably bedding nearby)



The plan for this group….is to move them from the current bait site…to a large pen trap I have about 50 yds. away. ( I will broadcast the corn along a new trail)

If they will do that tonight (move), then the next night I will bait the trap and prop the doors open. Once they are comfortable going into the trap (a couple of nights) then I will set the trip wire or put up a hanging stand nearby and manually trip it with a cord.

Hopefully, the hogs will remain undisturbed, move to the trap area and go inside.

I want to be rid of these pests!
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Old July 27, 2010, 10:48 AM   #467
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Roughly 12 hours apart. Where do you think the spent the intervening time - laid up nearby or running a route?
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Old July 27, 2010, 12:39 PM   #468
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Quote:
As is typical of a herd of young hogs….they have started coming in earlier to feed. This tells me two things:

1. They feel unpressured.
2. I have been successful controlling my scent when I put out corn and check the camera.
Or they're just getting used to your scent. I never mask my scent when I fill the feeder or check the camera. I drive right up to the feeder with my truck. I pee right by the feeder and my dog seems to save it just to go up there with me and let loose. It doesn't seem to bother them.

What makes me really think that they're simply getting used to me is that the only time they'll come out when I'm hunting is if I'm hunting alone. If I take someone else, no matter how much scent masking they use, those hogs WILL NOT come in.

They come in about and hour before dusk until I shoot a couple of them then they'll come in at dark and then a little earlier until they're back an hour before dusk. They don't go far. They'll eat all the corn the feeder throws during the day. Then after the pigs come in the racoon come in and knock more corn out, then the pigs come back and eat what the coons left. Rinse and repeat all through the night until about 6 am.
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Old July 27, 2010, 12:47 PM   #469
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308win wrote:

Quote:
Roughly 12 hours apart. Where do you think the spent the intervening time - laid up nearby or running a route?
My guess is "laid up nearby" for several reasons.

The neighbors property is very thick and has a secluded pond about 150 yds. downstream of ours. It is a traditional hang out for hogs....(that then come onto this property to forage).

Since we are in the midst of another hot Texas summer....hogs are loathe to travel any further than they have to.

Also, you can see that the herd is made up of quite a few piglets/shoats, the sows generally do not take them on long forays.

In the winter-time (cool weather) they will branch out further since traveling is less taxing, water is not needed as frequently and they can sustain themselves on the mast crop (acorns) nearly anywhere they go.

Kudos to you for posing the excellent question though. It shows you are thinking beyond "hey there's a bunch of hogs". I submit....you'd make a good hog hunter.
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Old July 27, 2010, 01:13 PM   #470
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FLAvalanche wrote:

Quote:
Or they're just getting used to your scent. I never mask my scent when I fill the feeder or check the camera. I drive right up to the feeder with my truck.
I never try to "mask" my scent when dealing with hogs....because I don't believe it is possible. They have the "best nose in the business" and can literally detect several parts per MILLION of scent.

I do wear rubber boots when broadcasting corn or checking the camera to minimize the amount of scent left behind. 40 years of traditional bow-hunting has formed habits in me that I can not break. I simply believe "no scent is the best scent".

Depending upon where you live, the hog population, the structure of the herd, hunting pressure, etc.....I would not argue that you can get away with your method.

Here....it pays to be careful.


Quote:
I pee right by the feeder and my dog seems to save it just to go up there with me and let loose. It doesn't seem to bother them.
I have no doubt. Hogs (at least where I live) are constantly running into human and canine scent in the woods, so they don't necessarily go running for the hills. What seems to matter is: How fresh/strong the scent is.

A strong scent tells a hog that possible danger is nearby (or has been recently).

Conversely, an old/weak scent is of no concern to them (the reason I am careful to minimize it)


Quote:
What makes me really think that they're simply getting used to me is that the only time they'll come out when I'm hunting is if I'm hunting alone. If I take someone else, no matter how much scent masking they use, those hogs WILL NOT come in.
25 years of battling hogs has taught me that hogs are quick to key in on ANYTHING new in their environment. That doesn't mean they will have a bad reaction to it....but make no mistake, they WILL notice.


Quote:
They'll eat all the corn the feeder throws during the day. Then after the pigs come in the raccoon come in and knock more corn out, then the pigs come back and eat what the coons left. Rinse and repeat all through the night until about 6 am.
Sounds typical. Hogs and coons (corn bandits) will often feed together, I have tons of pics. But when things get too busy around a bait site...the coons will move off aways and wait.

Something few people recognize....is that raccoons are often responsible for hogs finding a food source to begin with (especially corn).

In any area where coons live...they are always the first animal to find water and food.

Like hogs....they are creatures of habit and will use the same trails over and over. They leave a lot of scent on the trails they use and the hogs pick up on this (coon trails).

Mature Boars especially....will follow a coon trail.

Anyway, thats a little tip for beginning hog hunters (don't shoot ALL the coons out of the area you want to hunt).


Flint.
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Old July 27, 2010, 01:32 PM   #471
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In response to the many PM's I get from folks generously offering to help me with my hog problem:

I must decline all requests.

Most of the hogs I am trying to control are on my Father-In-Laws place, though I have some on my own property as well.

He does not allow anyone but family or close/trusted friends to hunt on his property for reasons of liability (such are the sad and litigious times we live in).

If hogs become a problem on MY property to the degree they are on his....then I might entertain having a few people join me on a hunt or two.

But even then...it would be after a vetting process. I don't need any "yahoo's" shooting a black calf thinking it was a hog (its thick here). I can find those kind of hunters right down the road.

I know there are qualified, conscientious, careful hunter/sportsmen among our ranks at THR, but I simply can not take them onto my FIL's place.

The landowners of neighboring properties....are pretty much of the same accord (no hunting...if we don't know you).

Most are engaged in varying degrees of hog control....but it is a losing battle.

If you don't have hogs where you live, count yourself fortunate.


Flint.
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Old July 27, 2010, 02:02 PM   #472
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Quote:
I have no doubt. Hogs (at least where I live) are constantly running into human and canine scent in the woods, so they don't necessarily go running for the hills. What seems to matter is: How fresh/strong the scent is.

A strong scent tells a hog that possible danger is nearby (or has been recently).

Conversely, an old/weak scent is of no concern to them (the reason I am careful to minimize it)
Mine don't seem to care. Me and Max (the dog) can go up there at 7:00 pm to fill the feeder, check the camera and mark our territory and they'll come in at 8:30 pm like clockwork.

I don't do anything to mask my scent when I'm not hunting. I'll wear sandals, be sweating all over, pee all over, and I work in a bait shop with smokers so half the time I go up there I smell like a sardine dipped in an ashtray.

I've also noticed that they come in close to the feeder when I have someone hunting with me, but they won't come directly to it. I can't tell you how many times I've checked the camera the next day and 15 minutes after we leave they come in to feed.

They do use the same trails here. I've got some trails where the line in the sand is 6 inches wide and almost 10 inches deep from them continuing to use it.

My new problem is their scratching. I mounted the feeder on a 4x4 piece of rough cut lumber and they've sanded it smooth from scratching. Now they've found out that the steps on my tripod stand are nice to itch themselves with and have almost twice knocked it over.

What amazes me is how quiet they can be when they want to. The grass is about 4 feet high now that it's summer time. You'd think that 5 big females and 10 piglets would sound like a herd of elephants coming through that stuff but you don't hear a single noise until they're right under the stand.

The running joke in the grove is that if it sounds like a pig coming it's just an armadillo. If it sounds like a herd of water buffalo coming it's just a cardinal. If it's dead silent the pigs are coming.

The coons don't like the big male hogs. I can always tell when one is coming in because I have a picture of 2 or 3 coons on the ground. Then the next picture they're all on top of the feeder. Then the next picture is usually a big male pig.
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Old July 27, 2010, 02:08 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by 308win View Post
Roughly 12 hours apart. Where do you think the spent the intervening time - laid up nearby or running a route?
Mine are very routine. Hour before dusk they show up, hour before dawn they leave. Young ones stay until an hour after sunrise. Then they all go down into the swamp and bury themselves because it's 12 million degrees out.

All the hogs that show up in my pictures at the beginning of the night are wet.
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Old July 27, 2010, 03:14 PM   #474
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Flintnapper,

Do you use dogs to hunt them? Do you just use bait to get them into the pens? Or do you use a combination of dogs and bait?
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Old July 27, 2010, 03:43 PM   #475
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Flintnapper I find it interesting what you said about the coons.
I have killed dozens and dozens of hogs over the years in east Texas,south Texas,and central Texas and never gave a thought one about the coons.
Even an old dog can learn some new tricks.
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