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Old March 12, 2010, 08:45 AM   #1
MCgunner
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I'm lovin' this super companion

I had to admit my wife into the hospital. She's having problems and I THINK it's a severe reaction to a drug she was prescribed for a pre-cancerous female problem she'd been having. Gynecologist prescribed it, but that's off the topic. Anyway, hospitals are no gun zones here in Texas and I don't like going through dark parking lots in high crime areas (Sugar Land, Texas) especially unarmed. So, I've loaded up the super companion with 2 grains B'eye and 30 grain conicals for the primary back up pocket (strong side) and my .22LR NAA in the weak side pocket. I take the 9mm off the belt when I get there and lock it in the car out of sight. So, I got this thing, worked out the loads at the range with the chrongraph, and have already had have already pressed it into service. The little gun is smaller than my already small .380, invisible in a pocket by any measure. It is very close to .32ACP in ballistics pushing a lighter bullet, 30 grains, but it exceeds 1200 fps. That exceeds the .22 magnum from the same gun, slightly. It fills a niche for me.

But, I was thinkin', I'm going to get at least one extra cylinder for it. They're only 40 bucks. This will allow faster reloads (think pale rider) even than the cartridge gun. This may be one instance where the cap and ball is actually BETTER than the cartridge gun! I won't often carry this gun as a primary, but as you can see above, there are times. It does make a great very easily concealed back up, too. This gun has turned out to be everything I wanted of it. I'd prefer I didn't have to use such a funky sight picture with it (shoots way low and a bit left), but that's okay, I can hit with it quite well out to 15 yards. Turns out, this little gun that most think is just a cute toy has real world usefulness. I'd suspected that before I got it, but now I'm happy to report I wasn't wrong.
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Old March 12, 2010, 09:39 PM   #2
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Got this gold tone companion 15 years ago didn't like the pearlite grips it came with. The picture doesn't do it justice grip frame backstrap and barrel are all gold plated. The flint primer it resting on was cut down to throw 1.8 grns. bsye
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Old March 12, 2010, 10:50 PM   #3
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I use Triple Seven in mine,but I got the spare cylinder as soon as I got the gun. you can roll in a new cylinder in the time it takes to load a single round. these may be ''mouseguns'', but they are NOT toys! Cool lil' guys...
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Old March 13, 2010, 07:04 AM   #4
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I sorta recall reading about a smokeless load for these, anyone else?

These are the smallest carry gun I have used. My Colt vest pocket is small and my Walther model 9 is even smaller but they are near twice the size of the NAA.

BHP FAN, you use a dipper full of T7? I'll have to try that load.

Tiny little thing ain't it.
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Old March 13, 2010, 09:03 AM   #5
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Man, that gold one is pimpy sharp! I LIKE it!

I put mine in a holster grip, gives me a full size grip on the gun, but folds for pocket storage.

I hadn't ordered a spare cylinder 'cause I wasn't sure it'd do what I was hopin' it would do....but it did. I'm going to order one soon and probably a few more hundred rounds of bullets from NAA.

I wasn't impressed with 777, chronographed around 400 fps. Pyrodex pushes over 700. 777 seems to be a bit slow burn for the gun, lots of bang as it burns outside the barrel, but not much push. 777 works fantastic in my ROA, but not in the super companion. B'eye, I'm getting around 1200 which is about what the same barrel length (inch and 5/8ths) pushes in the .22 mag variant with the 30 grain V Max CCI according to NAA's chronograph results on their site, something short of 1200. Yep, it ain't no toy by a long shot. It is a serious deep concealment and back up gun.
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Last edited by MCgunner; March 13, 2010 at 09:12 AM.
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Old March 13, 2010, 09:16 AM   #6
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BTW, I like that flint primer idea. Might have to find one of those, Dixie gun works or something. I made a 2 grain scoop from a cut down 22LR case. A full length .22 short case throws 1.8 grains.
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Old March 13, 2010, 05:11 PM   #7
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In the super companion does anyone use a filler when loading less than 2 or 3 grns of whatever to bring charge to the shoulder [of the cylinder], if so what?
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Old March 13, 2010, 05:58 PM   #8
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Certainly not necessary with bullseye, but BP might be an issue. The scoop doesn't fill to compression or anywhere close. It would help the 777, I bet, though I didn't try it. Experimenting seemed so show the 777 needed a bit of compression as we discussed on another thread. Hodgdon recommends light compression. A filler could help.
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Old March 13, 2010, 08:33 PM   #9
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I have a set, with matching serial numbers, of Limited Edition of 3,000 North American Arms Mini and Super Companion revolvers with gold tone finish and pearlite grips that were a special run produced for the Edge Company of Brattleboro, Vermont.

I was recently informed that Daisy Heddon VL .22 caseless ammunition can be loaded and fired in the Freedom Arms or North American Arms percussion mini revolver using the #11 percussion cap. The powder is solid, not granular, and is attached to the bullet making for convenient loading into either cap & ball revolver. This cartridge was developed in the 1960s for certain Daisy Heddon rifles, has .22 LR ballistics, and used a puff of high pressure air to ignite the round. Although the rifle was discontinued many years ago, many millions of rounds of this caseless ammunition was produced and is still available at reasonable cost. Has anyone heard of, or know of anyone, using Daisy Heddon VL .22 caseless ammunition in either the Freedom Arms or North American Arms cap & ball mini revolver?
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Old March 13, 2010, 08:45 PM   #10
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I dont kow about reasonable cost I think the ammo is more collectable than the guns are.
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Old March 14, 2010, 12:37 PM   #11
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I thought I heard the NAA Companion had been discontinued. True?
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Old March 14, 2010, 12:57 PM   #12
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n a a companion

2 gr bulls eye ,is that the same as 3 cc scoops that come with the pistol, measure by volume? I know that the atf stoped n a a from advertizing smokeless or they would re classify the little runt. and no companions are not discontinued ur thinkin of dick casull freedom arms co. that sold the rights to n a a .

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Old March 14, 2010, 06:06 PM   #13
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The scoop measures 2.4 grains by weight bullseye. I'm tossing these home made scoops (from .22 cases) onto an electronic scale for weighing. I've fired a NAA supplied scoop full just to see what it'd do, but I didn't have the chronograph with me. Saw no immediate leading of the bore and didn't feel much different than 2.0 grains. I plan to chronograph a 2.4 grain charge, but it might be fast enough to lead the bore. It certainly didn't harm the gun in any way that I could tell. Nipples unscrewed with ease and caps were in tact and would not fall out when the cylinder was removed. What I did notice when playing with my 1.0 grain scoop is that it actually holds about 1.1 grains, so my initial chronographing with it with "2 grains" was that scoop x 2. I was actually dumping 2.2 grains for those 1200 fps velocities. My 2.0 grain scoop holds an actual 2.0 grains and velocities fell about 50 fps with it. THEREFORE, I don't think using the yellow .3cc scoop will hurt with Bullseye, but I'd watch for leading because velocity is getting up there and those little 30 grain bullets are of soft lead.

Now, this is for the SUPER companion. I don't think the scoop supplied with the Companion holds as much, not sure what CC it is. Again, this is not grain equivalent by volume, but actual weight of Bullseye that I was measuring as a reference for working up to what I finally did.
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Old March 14, 2010, 10:50 PM   #14
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mag companion

Thanx for the info,if u look at the n.a.a. scoops they are both 3 cc for lr and 22 mag companion,on the website they have the same part #,MI LOAD OF AS MUCH 777 AS I CAN FIT & 30 gr boolit penatrated 75%of a new phone book.could u use blls eye in a R.O.A?

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Old March 14, 2010, 11:32 PM   #15
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MCgunner:

Sorry to hear about your wife's complications. I understand what you mean about these stupid firearms-free zones. But do they provide armed escorts to the car for us?! Hades no!

I went to my neurologist last week and forgot my pistol safe's key. Well, it's a doctor's office, not a hospital, so I was okay...'til they asked me to remove my shirt. I just showed them my MCPL first. They didn't have a problem with it. Why would a hospital be any worse?! It isn't but it is stupid. Sorry rant off.

Again, best to your wife. I'll keep you folks in my prayers.

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Old March 14, 2010, 11:46 PM   #16
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I had heard the Magnum Companion is still in production, while the ''LR'' BP revolver has been discontinued. I just use the scoop that came with it,with Triple Seven and those neat little spire point bullets from Cabelas.
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Old March 15, 2010, 09:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
.could u use blls eye in a R.O.A?
Absolutely NOT. Man, if you filled it up, you're talkin' 40 grains equivalent! Kaboom and there goes your arm. Do you fill a .44 mag case full of bullseye? Nope. I load 2.7 grains in .38 brass with wadcutters and worry about double charges. 5 grains would likely cause problems in a K frame revolver.

To my knowledge, these little guns are the only ones ever recommended for any form of smokeless powder and that's because they're strong and don't hold much in the first place. Do not put any sort of smokeless in a NORMAL black powder, IOW any black powder gun other than the NAAs, not even the immensely strong ROA. The ROA and all other BPs simply hold too much powder to be anywhere near safe with any smokeless powder. From what I'm seeing with the NAAs. Even with the NAA, I think it MIGHT hold enough if you filled a cylinder to damage the gun with bullseye. I'm not sure and I'm not going to find out. I was very careful working up to a full scoop chronographing several incremental loads so that I knew what was going on via the velocities I was getting. I don't have a strain gauge (measures pressure) so I'm still sort of blind as to pressure, but if velocities go crazy, if you're getting 1500 fps, you know it ain't right. The chronograph helps. I don't think I wanna go much beyond 1200 fps with the gun and that's a little hotter than .22 mag in the magnum version, so I'm thinkin' pressure is getting up there. Someone here suggested the threads would begin to warp on the nipples if it was exceeding things, the weak point, which is probably true. So far, no problems there. 2 grains seems quite safe and gives .22 mag ballistics, so I don't think going any hotter is necessary or prudent.

Geno, thanks. Yeah, it peeves me all these no carry zones, but I ain't gonna be a victim. I carried when carry of any kind or form was illegal in this state. Better to be judged by 12.....as the saying goes. Back then, my carry was a cheap .25ACP. It always went bang, not that I could hit anything past 10 feet with it. But, it saved me against a mugger armed with a knife once, just by being there. The guy wanted no part of a gun fight. The super companion has more bite than a .25 if I do have to shoot, though I know it's no replacement for a 9mm, but you have to do what you have to do with all these laws. And, out to 15 yards, I can hit with it. That .25 was kinda worthless past 15 feet.

Yeah, they called me night before last, said they had to do a tracheotomy, told me she was critical. I drove up there, stayed the night catching some sleep in a chair. I'm getting ready to run up there again today. Have to be home tomorrow to work, then it's back up there.

BTW, NAA still advertises and I could have ordered the .22LR frame Companion. I don't think it is out of production unless the decision is very recent. I just wanted the larger gun to give me options with 777 and such and I got it used right here on this site, anyway. I am going to get around to trying to fill the cylinders with 777 to slight compression. That should help 777 as they recommend 10 percent compressed loads in the literature I've been able to find on the stuff. I might be able to get the gun up over 1000 fps with it in that case. Be interesting to find out, at least. I know the stuff works well in my ROA and a compressed load in my .31 produced 900 fps with a 60 grain conical. A normal non-compressed, but filled to the bottom of the bullet load (.7 scoop) produced 700 fps. So compression seems to help 777, though I gotta say that 900 fps load in the .31 was over 10 percent compressed, so I've backed off that load for that gun. 700 fps in the .31 is acceptable to me. If I had to use it for self defense, I might carry a compressed load, but all I do with it is practice. Too, it's a brass reproduction of the Remington and not all that strong.
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Old March 15, 2010, 03:55 PM   #18
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prayers up for McGunner and his family...maybe you could get some time off? Sleep caught in a chair in a stressful situation doesn't really count.
I don't know whether NAA discontinued the LR sized frame, just that the last Cabelas catalog I looked at didn't have the small one.That's OK,I have big paws,and the side blast from the smaller frame gun's cylinders cuts my fingers up.the magnum cylinder is much better.
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Old March 15, 2010, 04:52 PM   #19
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let me start by saying you and your family are in my prayers.

I thought about getting the super companion once but decided that my Taurus 905 was enough gun for me to carry in most situations and i really don't go to hospitals all that often.

By the way the crime in Sugar Land is still nothing like it is in North Houston, or even Alief. I know the mayor of SL was robbed in his drive way, but Fort Bend County has far fewer problems than Harris County.
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Old March 15, 2010, 08:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
By the way the crime in Sugar Land is still nothing like it is in North Houston, or even Alief. I know the mayor of SL was robbed in his drive way, but Fort Bend County has far fewer problems than Harris County.
Yeah, well, for a country boy from Port Lavaca, it just seems too crowded. There's lots of money in that area and lots of break ins and such. I know around SW Houston, Richmond Ave. area, just outside the loop is about the leader in the area for violent crime rates. But, heck, could be worse, could be in Brownsville or El Paso waiting for the narcos to attack across the river. I'd want my SKS walkin' around down there. At any rate, I want to be armed 24/7 when I go there. Hell, I'm armed 24/7 HERE.

They had a Taurus PT738 TCP at the Academy around the corner. I was tempted, like that thing. But, I have an old Grendel P12 I never carry that's the same size except 1" thick due to its 11 round double stack magazine. I never carry it because if I can carry that, I can carry my Kel Tec P11. The super companion is weaker, but it's near .32ACP in energy and significantly smaller and lighter. It's the logical next step below my P11. Everyone raves about how compact the LCPs/TCPs are, but they're not THAT much smaller than the slim 9mms out there like the 709 or the PF9 and not really any easier to carry than my P11 or Grendel. I know the little P32 is smaller slightly than the .380s.

Ah, you could beat yourself up over size vs power, but I just don't feel I need a pocket .380 what with the fact I hardly ever carry the Grendel and I do have it if needed. I mean, if I need smaller than the 9, I need SMALL, not a little smaller. Yeah, fortunately, it has been rarely needed, but you can never have too many options in carry guns. Previously, I fell back on my NAA .22LR when I needed uber small, but the super companion has more zing. I'm saving milk bottles and if I can ever get back to the range, want to test penetration between the .22 and the super companion. At 1200 fps I'm betting on the super companion. The .22 shoots a 38 grain bullet at 800 fps.

The wife's breathing and her heart is functioning well enough, now. Doc just called me. He's there now. I didn't wanna wait around all night on him, came on home as I have to work tomorrow. They called and said I could have off, but if I don't work, I don't get paid. What we're waiting on now is the EEG they were doing when I got there this morning. The doc said he'd call me with the results. I'm praying she has no brain damage. I think she's just in a coma she'll come out of, hope. The brain has ways of protecting itself. She does open her eyes now and then, but today all she seemed to do is stare a blank stare. Yesterday, she was showing some cognizance and reacted to me. We'll just see, I guess.
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Old March 16, 2010, 09:21 AM   #21
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Prayers for you and your wife. And thanks for a fascinating thread.
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Old March 16, 2010, 06:41 PM   #22
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I have the companion and super companion. Did some testing with black powder , bullse and 30 grn bullet with the companion today . Targets were at 6 ft. one scoop of Black powder @ 6 ft phone book :bullet penetrated 3 pages .Here is a pleasant surprise ,with Bullse 1.0 grns measured on powder scale ,30 grn bullet , penetration on phone book over seven hundred pages. Also I shot at a 1/2 inch plywood with 1 grn bullse, bullet went clean thru like a 22 rimfire.Finding the bullets in the book were deform but rifling was on the bullets.The companion with the bullse loads is not a toy but a deadly firearm.

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Old March 16, 2010, 08:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Targets were at 6 ft. one scoop of Black powder @ 6 ft phone book :bullet penetrated 3 pages
3 pages? Gotta be a typo or you're trying to be funny. I'll admit I'm not real quick. I got 700 fps with pyrodex. That ought to make it through more'n 3 pages. But, yeah, I know bullseye beats BP or substitutes hands down.
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Old March 16, 2010, 09:16 PM   #24
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MCgunner, No typo . I was using the companion model which is = to a 22 LR. But the bullseye beats BP / substitutes everytime.I also shot at the plywood with the companion loaded with Black Powder and the bullet would not penetrate , it bounced off.No joke. But then when I loaded the companion with 1 grn bullseye it shot right thru 1/2 plywood like a 22 rimfire.Next couple of days I'm going to try the super companion loaded with bullseye .
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Old March 16, 2010, 09:19 PM   #25
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3 pages sounds correct to me. I had a bullet from my Super Companion bounce off the wooden target frame and hit my range bag, once, when using BP. I found the bullet on the ground, dented about as badly as if I had shot it with a slingshot.
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