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Old April 12, 2010, 08:27 PM   #1
bobelk99
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ATF FAQs

Before they create their 'new' website, ATF maintained fairly comprehensive FAQs at http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

I just learned that webpage no longer exists. I found a set of NFA FAQs, but cannot find anything similar to the old FAQs.

Can anyone tell me they are there somewhere?

Does anyone have a copy of the old FAQs they saved that I could have? Obviously I have 'lost' mine.

Thanks.
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Last edited by bobelk99; April 12, 2010 at 08:28 PM. Reason: typo
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Old April 12, 2010, 08:49 PM   #2
bobelk99
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I finally found what must be the 'replacement' for the old FAQs.

Under Firearms-Industry
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/

Nice logical place for FAQ stuff
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Old April 12, 2010, 08:49 PM   #3
Zak Smith
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Uhh, it's right here
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/
and listed right out here as well
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/
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Old April 13, 2010, 11:08 AM   #4
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While the FAQs may be helpful, if you want the source information, it's almost all at the below United States Code and Code of Federal Regulations:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...0_I_20_44.html

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...27cfrv3_02.tpl

Another extremely helpful resource is the BATFE's Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, which I believe has all their FAQ's in a section of that publication as well:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf
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Old April 13, 2010, 02:55 PM   #5
Lee Roder
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Same with their Rulings. Now only a "few" are maintained online. You wanna read Ruling 85-10? Too bad. Judge will "summarize" it for you at your trial.
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Old April 13, 2010, 03:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roder
Same with their Rulings. Now only a "few" are maintained online. You wanna read Ruling 85-10? Too bad. Judge will "summarize" it for you at your trial.
Not true. It's on page 129:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

ATF Rul. 85-10
Section 233 of the Trade and Tariff
Act of 1984, 98 Stat. 2991, amended
Title 18, United States Code, section
925 to allow licensed importers to
import firearms listed by the Secretary
as curios or relics, excluding handguns
not generally recognized as
particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes. The
amendment had the effect of allowing
the importation of surplus military
curio or relic firearms that were previously
prohibited from importation by
18 U.S.C. section 925(d)(3).
130
Congressional intent was expressed
by Senator Robert Dole in
130 CONG. REC. S2234 (daily ed.,
Mar. 2, 1984), as follows:
First. This provision is aimed at
allowing collectors to import fine
works of art and other valuable weapons.
Second. This provision would allow
the importation of certain military
surplus firearms that are classified as
curios and relics by regulations of the
Secretary of the Treasury.
Third. In order for an individual or
firm to import a curio or relic it must
first be put on a list by petitioning the
Secretary of the Treasury. The Secretary
must find the firearm's primary
value is that of being a collector's
item.
Fourth. The only reason a person
would purchase these firearms is
because of their peculiar collector's
status. And, in fact, they must be
special firearms and classified as
such in order to import.
This language clearly shows that
Congress intended to permit the importation
of surplus military firearms
of special interest and value to collectors
and recognized by ATF as meeting
the curio or relic definition in 27
CFR 178.11. The regulation defines
"curios or relics" as firearms of "special
interest to collectors by reason of
some quality other than is ordinarily
associated with firearms intended for
sporting use or as offensive or defensive
weapons." The regulation further
defines curios or relics to include "firearms
which derive a substantial part
of their monetary value from the fact
that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or
because of their association with
some historical figure, period or
event."
In classifying firearms as curios or
relics under this regulation, ATF has
recognized only assembled firearms
as curios or relics.
Moreover, ATF's classification of
surplus military firearms as curios or
relics has extended only to those
firearms in their original military configuration.
Frames or receivers of
curios or relics and surplus military
firearms not in their original military
configuration were not generally recognized
as curios or relics by ATF
since they were not of special interest
or value as collector's items.
Specifically, they did not meet the
definition of curio or relic in section
178.11 as firearms of special interest
to collectors by reason of a quality
other than is ordinarily associated
with sporting firearms or offensive or
defensive weapons.
Furthermore, they did not ordinarily
have monetary value as novel, rare,
or bizarre firearms; nor were they
generally considered curios or relics
because of their association with
some historical figure, period or
event.
It is clear from the legislative history
that Congress did not intend for
the frames or receivers alone of surplus
military firearms, or any other
surplus military firearms not in their
original military configuration, to be
importable under section 925(e). It is
also clear that only those firearms
classified by ATF as curios or relics
were intended to be approved by ATF
for importation.
Held: to be importable under 18
U.S.C. section 925(e), surplus military
firearms must be classified as curios
or relics by ATF. Applications by
licensed importers to import frames or
receivers alone of surplus military
curio or relic firearms will not be approved
under section 925(e). Surplus
military firearms will not be classified
as curios or relics unless they are
assembled in their original military
configuration, and applications for
permits to import such firearms will
not be approved.
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Old April 14, 2010, 01:14 AM   #7
Lee Roder
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Page 129? Never would have guessed, I was looking mainly here

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/

So thank you NavyLT! But now I guess I don't have an excuse
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Old March 19, 2011, 11:14 AM   #8
Sam1911
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Quote:
I thought that the law changed and you can buy a long gun from an FFL in any state.
The FOPA '86 erased the federal "contiguous states" restriction put in place in the GCA '68.

As an unlicensed person you may:
1) Buy a rifle, shotgun, or handgun from a dealer or other citizen of your state, in your state. (As long as your state laws allow.)
2) Buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL dealer at their place of business or at a gun show in ANY state. (As long as both states' laws allow.)
3) Buy a rifle or shotgun from a private party in another state -- IF you transfer it (filling out the 4473 form) at a dealer in that state or your state. (As long as both states' laws allow.)
4) Buy a handgun from a private party in any state -- IF you transfer it (filling out the 4473 form) at a dealer in your state.

You may NOT:
1) Buy a rifle or shotgun from anyone who is not a licensed dealer (FFL) who is a resident of any other state besides your state of residence. (Unless you have a dealer do the transfer paperwork as mentioned above.)
2) Buy a handgun from anyone, including an FFL dealer, in any state outside your state of residence.

All of this is spelled out pretty clearly in the ATF's FAQ.
...

So, to answer your questions directly:

Quote:
The point of this question is to better understand the general situation down south, when we drive around across state lines (only in person).
Down south, up north -- all the same. Some states have more restrictive laws, but that's true throughout the country.

Quote:
As we can easily drive from TN to MS or TX to buy an old surplus Enfield rifle etc- personal sale- Inside the gun show bldg. (this happens very often),
This is completely illegal. Federal law says that if the buyer and seller are not residents of the same state, both commit federal felonies.

Quote:
then is it also legal on the physical Edge of the Show's Parking Lot? Or is this a 'gray' area if the buyer has a legally very clean background?
Obviously not legal anywhere on the show grounds, or anywhere else in the country. Transfer MUST be done through an FFL dealer on the 4473 form. Period.

Quote:
Federal law seems to prohibit having a visitor who drives from IN, KY, etc to another state such as TN, AR, MS etc and offers to sell you a gun FTF in your driveway.
Yup. Or at a gun show. Or anywhere.

Quote:
As people often buy a rifle from somebody in line, who is waiting to get in the gun show, then why is this not legal a mile from the gun show location, in a FTF deal?
Again, both parties commit federal felonies. If one of the parties is an ATF undercover agent, the other party goes to prison and pays large fines.

Quote:
I've never seen any discussion of these two similar but somehow different legal situations, or where they can 'overlap', on the seven websites which I skim through.
Really? I know we covered it regularly here -- already once this month: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7151019

Quote:
If this topic seems to be too sensitive to explain on public forum, a member or moderator might prefer to send a 'pm'.
Not at all! It is a matter of federal law, and the answers are VERY clear. No mystery, no sensitive info.
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Last edited by Sam1911; March 19, 2011 at 11:26 AM.
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Old April 1, 2011, 08:28 AM   #9
bobelk99
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Sam:

Thank you for taking time to do updates.
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Old April 24, 2011, 10:34 AM   #10
Trader Ray
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Question

I did not think this through, I recently moved to one state to another. I have handgun on layaway in my old state and now have the new states Drivers License. Should I just get what cash I can get back or have it transferred to a FFL in my new state?
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Old April 24, 2011, 02:15 PM   #11
Sam1911
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Explain the situation to the FFL you have the gun on layaway with and work out an arrangement to have it shipped to an FFL in your new location. A driver's license isn't required to prove residency, but he's going to ask for it when you do the 4473 paperwork and you'll have to explain anyway. Better tell him now and work it out before hand.
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Old April 24, 2011, 07:49 PM   #12
newbuckeye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1911 View Post

You may NOT:
1) Buy a rifle or shotgun from anyone who is not a licensed dealer (FFL) who is a resident of any other state besides your state of residence. (Unless you have a dealer do the transfer paperwork as mentioned above.)
2) Buy a handgun from anyone, including an FFL dealer, in any state outside your state of residence.
So how are on line auctions legal if you buy the hand gun from an FFL in another state? Even with the transfer going thru a LGS, the purchase was made FROM the FFL in another state.
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Old April 24, 2011, 07:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
So how are on line auctions legal if you buy the hand gun from an FFL in another state? Even with the transfer going thru a LGS, the purchase was made FROM the FFL in another state.
The prohibition is on the transfer from an FFL or resident in state X to a resident of state Y.

Auction purchases by a person in state Y generally get shipped to an FFL in state Y for delivery to the buyer, following both Federal law and the laws of state Y.
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Old April 24, 2011, 08:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
So how are on line auctions legal if you buy the hand gun from an FFL in another state? Even with the transfer going thru a LGS, the purchase was made FROM the FFL in another state.
Yes, that would be clearer if it said "transfer" rather than buy. You can send or give your money to whomever, wherever, and can receive a bill of sale. However, you cannot take posession of that firearm until it has been transferred to you by a dealer in your state.
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Old April 24, 2011, 10:37 PM   #15
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Sam1911, thank you for your reply. It helped to come to the conclusion I have.
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Old July 24, 2011, 04:26 AM   #16
m2steven
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May I as a non FFL holder ship a non curio pistol or revolver to an FFL in a state other than my residence for delivery to a buyer?

In other words, if I put my Glock 26 on Gunbroker, sell it to someone out of state, do I have to have an FFL ship it to the buyer's FFL, or may I ship the pistol to the out of state FFL myself?
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Old July 24, 2011, 08:38 AM   #17
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You may ship it directly -- IF the buyer's FFL agrees to accept shipments from non-licensees. Some do not for reasons of their own. Get the whole thing squared away with all parties involved before you send anything.

(And don't put it in the USPS!)
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Old July 24, 2011, 07:35 PM   #18
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Thank you Sam1911.
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Old October 29, 2011, 05:21 AM   #19
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How about flash suppressors? are they considered the same as a silencer? I wanted to attach one to my KELTEC PLR but wasn't sure if it required a tax stamp. Lastly would a muzzle break also require a tax stamp?
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Old October 29, 2011, 07:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Lo8080 How about flash suppressors? are they considered the same as a silencer? I wanted to attach one to my KELTEC PLR but wasn't sure if it required a tax stamp. Lastly would a muzzle break also require a tax stamp?
Neither a muzzle break or flash supressor/hider is considered a supressor.
Muzzle breaks and flash hiders are perfectly legal under federal law and do not require NFA tax stamps.

Only NFA firearms such as sound supressors or silencers require registration and payment of a tax stamp.
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Old November 4, 2011, 09:52 AM   #21
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Thanks for the info, Dogtown!
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Old February 17, 2012, 12:34 AM   #22
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This link may help: http://web.archive.org/web/200911260.../faq/index.htm
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