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Old December 16, 2014, 02:28 AM   #1
Yorkshire shooter
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223, bullet weight and twists

Hi from the UK ,I'm new on here hoping for advice and help.ok hear goes I have just bought a Howa 1500 sporter 1 in 9 twist 22 ins barrel in 223,this rifle will be used target shooting from 100yds to 500 yds and IT will also be used on vermin fox rabbit ect, ok the question is will my rifle stabalize a 75 grn bullet for long distance target.Regards Gary
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:01 AM   #2
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shooter,
I haven't shot any 75gr however I have shot 68gr out of my 16" SS bull barrel Rock River AR, 1 in 9 twist, both the Sierra SMKBT and Hornady HPBT. Both did an excellent job stabilizing out to 400 yds. Haven't tried them further than that. A slight edge given to the Sierra for accuracy.

Hope this helps.
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BTW, Welcome

Last edited by Joe's; December 16, 2014 at 03:14 AM.
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:30 AM   #3
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Welcome to the forum...

I wish my Howa 1500 had a 1:9 twist instead of a 1:12 but that's another story.

I see no reason why you shouldn't try a 75gr bullet but I think that might be the limit depending upon how long the bullets are.
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:33 AM   #4
ugaarguy
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Hornady says their 75 gr BTHP Match bullet is short enough to stabilize in a 1:9 twist. That's the heaviest .224" bullet (also available as loaded ammo) that I've seen a manufacturer state as suitable for a 1:9 twist. Most other .224" bullets over 70 grains are too long to stabilize in a 1:9 twist. If you can't get the 75 grain Hornady bullets you'll likely get better results with the various 68 and 69 grain bullets available from most manufacturers.
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Old December 16, 2014, 09:44 AM   #5
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My 20" Savage 10PC 1:9 will stabilize 77 SMK's but not 80's. Another fellow shooter has a Savage varmint with a 24" 1:9 that will stabilize 80 SMK's. Both shot at 500 yds.

I bet you'll be OK with the 75's.

Laphroaig
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Old December 16, 2014, 10:02 AM   #6
Jim Watson
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The calculated stability for a 75 grain boattail in a 9 twist is marginal, but many actual rifles do quite well.
I would not buy a large supply of any one sort of bullet until I had tested it.

Berger makes a 70 gr VLD and a 73 gr Hybrid that they say will shoot from a 9 twist.
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Old December 16, 2014, 10:07 AM   #7
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Yorkshire:

.224, 75 grain, round nose, flat base bullets are actually shorter than some lighter pointed boat-tail bullets and will shoot fine in the 1 in 9" twist. Pointy, boat-tail bullets really don't have much ballistic advantage at ranges of less than 300 yards and are often less accurate at the shorter ranges as well. It is bullet length, not weight that is the determining factor in the rifling twist/bullet stability equation.
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Old December 16, 2014, 10:13 AM   #8
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You won't know for sure until you try it, but I would venture that they will shoot just fine. Your 22" barrel will get a few hundred fps more velocity than a 16" AR to help stabilize that bullet.
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Old December 16, 2014, 12:48 PM   #9
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Hey guys brilliant thanks for the info, have bought a box of steel cased 75grn practice ammo will let you know how it gets on.
Cheers Gary
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Old December 16, 2014, 02:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkshire shooter View Post
Hey guys brilliant thanks for the info, have bought a box of steel cased 75grn practice ammo will let you know how it gets on.
Cheers Gary
Gary, just be aware if your rifle will shoot that ammo well it doesn't guarantee it will shoot other 75gr bullets well. The steel cased bullet used in that ammo might be quite a bit shorter than the bullets you buy to load. That probably won't happen but it could so like said above, don't buy large quantities before you test.

I'm looking forward to the range report...
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:29 PM   #11
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It can depend on how long the bullet is and how fast you want to push it. A 75gr bullet that is long for its weight, like a spitzer point boat tail, might stabilize at a lower velocity but it might be borderline at maximum velocity. Switching to a flat base bullet might result in perfect stabilization at any velocity, but I don't think FB bullets are optimum for long range target work. My Mini-14 has a 1-9 twist and it draws the line at 75 grain bullets. It isn't a target rifle, by ANY stretch of the imagination, but it demonstrates a point. I tried shooting some 80 GR target loads, out of curiosity, and they keholed and sprayed all over the place.

This is just my personal experience for what it is worth. Welcome to the forum and to the United States. I think you will like our gun laws more than your home country's!
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:42 PM   #12
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Many thanks for the info,, lots to take in
Inbound head ache I recon,, one other thing
Never had a 223 before are they fussy the way
You shoot the barrel in never seemed to make any
With the 22/ 17hmr or my 308.many thanks cheers Gary

C
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Old December 16, 2014, 03:55 PM   #13
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Yorkshire, I assume you've ordered a box of the Hornady "Steel Match" 75 gr BTHP - http://www.hornady.com/store/223-REM...P-STEEL-MATCH/. If so, that's the same copper jacketed lead core bullet loads in their brass cased ammo and sells as a component bullet, so no worries about the bullet itself being different.
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Old December 16, 2014, 04:15 PM   #14
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My Savage 12 LRPV with a 26" 1:9 barrel will do 75 gr. bullets just fine but that's the limit. I've tried 77's and they won't fly nearly as true. In fact mine shoots bullets from 68 to 75 best of all weights. It like Sierra bullets too. I've shot it to 500 yards accurately depending on the wind of course. I think the heavier bullets actually can be more affected by the wind than lighter bullets because they are going slower and have more time to get of line. I haven't done any actual comparison tests other than just what I see. I generally get more accuracy from the heavier bullets anyway. I just have to shoot when the wind is low. And where I shoot still wind is pretty common. There are lots of hills to block the wind from rolling through like where I live now which seems to be the Mt. Washington of the mid-west.
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Old December 19, 2014, 03:25 AM   #15
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75grn hornad steel cased

Ok guys ,hey Arch Angel the preliminary report lol, the rifle is a Howa 223 sporter with a 22ins barrel . The venue local range wet and windy (typical England) ok first time out new rifle and no matter how much care or time the groups looked more like a M60 beaten zone, it would not pull under 1.3/4 ins next step 69grn what do you think lads.cheers Gary
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Old December 19, 2014, 03:28 AM   #16
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Sorry 100yds to target
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Old December 19, 2014, 03:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
next step 69grn what do you think
I think that's the next logical step. Let us know what 68 or 69 grain match load you're able to get, and let us know how it shoots.
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Old December 19, 2014, 05:38 AM   #18
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Gary,
1 3/4" is not good @100 yards but it's not an indication of an unstable bullet. Were these reloads or that ammo you bought as a test? What kind of ammo was it? Was the bullet tumbling or was it inaccurate for another reason?

This is a new to you rifle. Do you know this rifle is accurate with lighter bullets? Have you shot it with good factory MATCH ammo to set a baseline? Do you know for sure if the bullets were not stable or was the load inaccurate for another reason?
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Old December 19, 2014, 05:46 AM   #19
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I would try PPU 68gr match, Black Hills 68gr blue box, fiocchi 69gr or hornady 68gr brown box for a 1:9. As a matter of fact, I have a couple of boxes of each that I tested my M&P15 with 1:9. They all stabilized.

Each barrel is different, so try a box or two before you buy in bulk. Shoot 50 yards, 100 yards and further to see if the bullet stabilizes at different distances.
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Old December 19, 2014, 07:37 AM   #20
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Hi all thanks for the comments , the Howa is new And it was its 1st outing the ammo was 223 hornady 75grn in steel cases . Checkin the point of impact showed no evidence of tumbling just big groups
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Old December 19, 2014, 08:30 AM   #21
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My bet is the 55 to 65 grain bullets will do best in your rifle. I like to shine up new barrels with some Brasso or JB Bore Bright but the Howa has a good reputation of being accurate right out of the box. I'm thinking the 75's may be just a bit to heavy or the rifle just doesn't like the steel cased ammo.
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Old December 19, 2014, 11:07 AM   #22
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75grn

It's going to be between 65,,,67 grn hopefully the69grn helps with the long distance fun, I'm hoping it's just the practice ammo it dosent like try again next week,,until the next instalment,regards Gary
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Old December 20, 2014, 12:34 AM   #23
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It's not easy to tell a lot from one sample of ammo. I generally start out by testing about 10 different types, weights and brands. And sometimes that isn't enough. It took me a good 2 months to figure out the best load for my Savage .223 varmint gun. Rifles are generally very picky about ammo. The stuff that is supposed to be good isn't always the stuff that works well either. I tried some high dollar match grade ammo (Hornady) and it wouldn't group worth a darn. I still have most of that box somewhere. Black Hills makes very good ammo though. I would try some of their stuff to see how it works and remember that not only does the brand, the type, the weight and the bullet in a cartridge matter but the lot number matters too. So if you buy a box of ammo and find it works great you may buy the exact same brand and load and find it doesn't shoot well at all. I remember going through a box of Black Hills 55 gr. with Sierra Boattail bullets and it was shooting crazy accurate. I was thinking it was my lucky day because I had 2 more boxes of the same ammo with me. As soon as I finished the first box and started on another I knew it wasn't going to be the same. M groups had opened up big time on me. I checked the lot numbers and sure enough they were different..

That's the reason people load their own ammo. You can almost eliminate problems like that completely or so they say anyway. I never learned to load ammo but I should have. I have just never shot enough centerfire ammo to make it worth while or at least I didn't up until I bought a few centerfire rifles a few years ago..
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Old December 20, 2014, 03:43 AM   #24
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Hi Yorkshire

Can't help with your question since I don't shoot .223" but just wanted to say it's good to see another UK based shooter on here

I'm a little bit north of you. You never know - we might bump into each other on the range sometime
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Old December 20, 2014, 06:30 AM   #25
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UK

Philuk44.
Meet up would be good from Wakefield what about you.
Cheers Gary
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