Quantcast
VZ.58 Club: - Page 14 - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Rifle Country

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 20, 2011, 07:18 PM   #326
cchiang1
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 15, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
killertom:
A pic would be great, if only for educational purposes. Since the rail was originally designed for Soviet(?) NV equipment, are aftermarket "regular" scope mounts available for that rail, or can scopes be adapted to fit on the original NV mount (if its even available?). Thanks.

Cary
cchiang1 is offline  
Old July 20, 2011, 07:24 PM   #327
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
I'll do a pic tomorrow. The rail was originally designed for the NSP-2 infra sight, which was in turn originally designed for the Dragunov. So supposedly, the rail on the Vz. 58Pi is the same as that on the Dragunov. I'm not sure about the availability of SVD scope mounts, or aftermarket mounts made to fit the Dragunov rails, but it would be nice to add a red dot or holo sight to the Vz. someday...
killertom is offline  
Old July 20, 2011, 08:04 PM   #328
Bennybone
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 9, 2010
Posts: 57
Results from todays Hornady Ammo test with NCstar scope mounted on rear receiver side rail mount.

50 yards - This is what I am after !!!



100 yards - Average grouping with optics. I am sure it is going to be up to me to get smaller groups.



Next will be experimentation with reloading to attempt to develop a consistent accurate load, I will set the bar high and say that all shots should be touching at 50 yards...

Also a guy in another forum "slugged" his VZ2008 barrel and came up with .308 in diameter - I will attempt to do this as well , that would open up the bullet choice department BIG TIME!

BB
Bennybone is offline  
Old July 20, 2011, 11:35 PM   #329
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
Welcome to the club, killertom! My family originally descended from Hungary (long ago I was told, by my grandfather, that my forefathers were Hungarian potato farmers...how true that is I'll likely never know). Looks like a neat rifle, I would definitely try a SVD optic (best to try before buying to ensure that ejection won't become an issue) if given the opportunity. They are a bit on the hefty side (particularly when placed on such a svelte/trim carbine as the VZ), but easily removed and would seemingly be useful for longer ranges.

Bennybone, happy to hear that yours is printing a bit better. IIRC the early CAI manufactured VZ clones had a .308cal. bbl, and that caused all sorts of accuracy issues (amongst other problems), but I believe they changed to a properly finished bbl diameter (along with fixing receiver issues) when they started producing them on better quality receivers.

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 12:03 AM   #330
cchiang1
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 15, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
Okay, I'm don't know much about this subject, but I've always heard 7.62 and .308 used interchangeably. Someone please give me the true measurements! Thanks.

Cary
cchiang1 is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 03:14 AM   #331
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
Cary, 7.62NATO (< this little detail is more important than one might be led to believe) and .308Winchester is essentially the same despite testing standards and brass thickness (both of which can entail variances depending upon the use of the cartridge, be it for sniper, general MG issue, hunting use, or use in de-milled (once FA) surplus arms). 7.62x39mm "Commie" is not interchangeable and has quite a bit less case capacity than the aforementioned cartridges. The 7.62x39mm is best compared to the .30-30WCF, whereas the 7.62NATO is most similar to the 7.62x54R/.303Brit./8mmMauser/pre-1945 .30-06Spd. (modern specifications are loaded to much higher pressures).

Hope this serves to help rather than further confuse...this is a common misconception, and deserves a well thought-out (non-3AM EST answer).
__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 03:35 AM   #332
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Hi Maverick,

There are lots of people of Hungarian descent in the U.S., supposedly almost a million. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them... :-) Thanks for the welcome!

Cary, I've attached a pic of the rail as promised.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 201107211186.jpg (234.3 KB, 30 views)
killertom is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 05:27 AM   #333
ifit
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 869
well said maverick, yesterday pulled some bullets as i was also curious on these 7.62 variants.
left=7.62x54r/147gr fmj surplus, measures at .312"
middle=7.62x51/135 gr,hp berger measures at .308"
right=7.62x39/123gr brown bear,russian measures at .310"
ifit is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 01:09 PM   #334
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
killertom, that is an interesting rail. I surmise that it was placed in the rearward position to ensure that the ejecting brass wouldn't cause stoppages and/or damage the optics, as well as hamper loading properly utilizing stripper clips.

ifit, good point...forgot to mention the discrepancy in bullet diameter amongst the various .30cal/7.62mm cartridges. You listed one of each of the major three categories: .308-309 (most modern US/W. European arms use this), .310 (Soviet caliber, almost exclusively used in the 7.62x39mm), and .311-312 (British originated caliber used in the .303Brit. and many others including the 7.62x54R, 7.7Arisaka and most ".32caliber" pistol cartridges).

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 03:32 PM   #335
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Yup, pretty interesting that it's situated that far back. It doesn't interfere with the cheek weld though.

On the other hand, it looks like I'm gonna need some help. After taking it home, I decided to clean the rifle just lightly, since it has been test fired with corrosive milsurp most likely and not cleaned. So I scrubbed the bore, then sprayed some ballistol in the gas port, and flushed it out with compressed air. 2-3 hours later, I could see some very light rust forming near the muzzle. So I went at it with a bronze brush and ballistol, and managed to get most of it out, but there are two lines on the edges of one of the lands, that just won't come out! I scrubbed at least 50 times with the bronze brush with generous amounts of ballistol, but it's still there. I'm starting to think it might be copper fouling and that's why it won't come off by scrubbing, but it definitely has a dark reddish-brown color. I've stopped scrubbing it, because I don't want to be to hard on the barrel, so any suggestions are appreciated.
killertom is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 06:31 PM   #336
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Ah, bad luck. While trying to remove those two streaks looking like rust I used a shorter pistol rod for more leverage, but I had to reverse the bronze brush inside the bore a couple times. All this before I read, that supposedly this can damage the barrel. So, what's the truth here? Is it possible I caused undue wear inside the bore of my new rifle where I reversed the bronze brush a couple times?
killertom is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 07:50 PM   #337
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
Yes and no, reversing the brush isn't so much the problem (though I would hesitate to do so with a precision rifle or benchrest rig), the discernible problems arise when you start nicking the muzzle as you push it back and forth. This can cause significant accuracy issues. Additionally it is very hard on the brush and will cause premature wear and breakage. In short, you probably haven't damaged anything thus far (particularly if you are just working the very end of the bbl), but it would probably be best to quit while you're ahead. In all likelihood the streaks you see are copper fouling and not rust (which often appears various shades of brown/orange and can exhibit a modest sheen or be fairly shiny depending upon the bbl materials and finish). I would give it a good soaking with a effective copper solvent. I don't know what you have available there, but I use KG-12, Butch's Bore Shine, and Hoppes No. 9 Benchrest and all work well (I have them listed roughly in order of preference).

Just keep in mind that you have a military rifle with a hard-chromed bore...it's somewhat hard to damage (a soldier, be it Czech or USGI, can do some mighty harsh things to an issued bit of kit)...but not entirely impossible. It's probably been through worse.

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 21, 2011, 09:32 PM   #338
rocinante
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 26, 2007
Location: Alpharetta GA
Posts: 1,306
tom take it out shoot it. My FN49 barrel was very rusty and l did a good attempt to clean up but after sending some rounds down range it looked a lot better. Accurate too.

A trick if you have to shoot corrosive ammo is before you end your trip shoot some non corrosive rounds. It will clean you up some.
rocinante is offline  
Old July 22, 2011, 06:41 AM   #339
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Hi Maverick,

Even though I was pretty hard on the poor thing I at least had the sense to use a bore guide, so the crown is perfect. I'm worried about the inside, damage to the lands, maybe to the chrome plating? Scratching and similar stuff?
I feel like a total idiot, I've been around firearms my entire adult life, and I'm still capable of pulling stuff like this. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Rocinante,

Thanks, that's exactly what I'm gonna do on saturday.
killertom is offline  
Old July 22, 2011, 10:03 AM   #340
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
Quote:
I at least had the sense to use a bore guide, so the crown is perfect.
That, sir, is the important part, and something that most folks neglect to do. The use of a muzzle or bore guide will prevent 99% of damage from cleaning. Your chrome lining (and everything else) should be just fine.

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 22, 2011, 10:28 AM   #341
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Thank you, I feel better already. Still a bit angry at myself for not being more careful, but what's done is done. I just have to wrap my head around the fact that this is a surplus gun, not brand new, and so even if I see some small imperfections in the bore here and there I probably didn't cause them. I'll have to see how it shoots tomorrow.
killertom is offline  
Old July 22, 2011, 10:36 AM   #342
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
No problem, Tom; glad I was able to ease your mind a bit. Definitely update us with a performance review after it's debut.

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 22, 2011, 11:50 AM   #343
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Will do, tomorrow's the big day. Forecast predicts rain though, but I've got a feeling weather forecast is just guessing. Every time they are right they have their egos up high, but every time they're wrong they just shrug and say "the weather is a very unpredicable thing". We'll see
killertom is offline  
Old July 25, 2011, 08:40 AM   #344
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
So, had a firing test with the Vz.58 on sunday, all is well, cycled perfectly and is plenty accurate (although I could only pop off 29 rounds offhand at 25 meters due to a heavy rain).

I have a question on bore solvents though, has anyone have experience with Remington Brite Bore? Does it damage the blueing if it spills on the external parts of the gun?

Thanks!
Tom
killertom is offline  
Old July 25, 2011, 10:11 AM   #345
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
Never used it, but I believe it is similar to Hoppes No. 9 BR. I seriously doubt that it would damage a salt blue (which most Vz.58s don't have). I wouldn't be surprised if it damaged a painted finish, but not a baked on hard coat like the D.Technik and military builds use (they use something like Duracoat). If that is what you intend to use, it would be advisable to test in a hidden area (like under the furniture) first just to be certain.

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old July 25, 2011, 11:14 AM   #346
killertom
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 67
Thanks! Reading about it on the internet, seems like it isn't much use on copper fouling. So I went out and bought Shooter's Choice Aqua Clean bore cleaner. It was really expensive for a cleaner, so it better be worth it!
killertom is offline  
Old July 25, 2011, 09:51 PM   #347
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
If that doesn't work out (no experience there either) pick up some KG-12. It picks up copper really well (but does poorly for cleaning other forms of fouling so a "pre-cleaner" is requisite), but is pretty gentle on finishes and bore surfaces.

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old August 5, 2011, 01:35 PM   #348
sizzle
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 9, 2011
Posts: 3
Hey whats up guys.. new to the club . I got a lot of inspiration from this forum to improve my vz 58 a little bit.. so I thank you all for that .. I have a CIA VZ2800 and I love it.. No problems with over 2000 rds ... except my henge to my side folder is loose. originally when I bought it though it was loose so I didn't think much of it and I have been ignoring it since but now its becoming a pain my ass. I can feel it my shoulder moving so it is ruining my ability to shoot accurately. Are there any fixes for this maybe? or should I replace the whole thing and maybe try a different folder? I was thinking a m4 folding style push stock.. post a link if you guys know where to get one for it.. thanks guys
sizzle is offline  
Old August 5, 2011, 02:31 PM   #349
Maverick223
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: 28078
Posts: 11,230
Welcome to the club and THR, sizzle!

My folder was a little loose on mine too. Fortunately it was only the (massive) bolt that needed tightened. After snugging it up a bit it is as tight as a AICS folder (which is to say: very good). The folder is designed to "self tighten" to compensate for wear, but if yours isn't simply a hardware issue it might be time for replacement parts or a new stock altogether. Personally I really like the original folder but there are several others to choose from...original stocks (both folding and fixed), aftermarket replacements, and adapters (for Ace and AR style stocks) are available from Czechpoint.

Here are a couple parts that should fix the folder that you already have (if it isn't simply a loose mounting bolt): Hinge Pin (likely culprit) & Hinge Bracket (may not be necessary)

__________________
Join us in the Rimfire Match and newly reinstated Centerfire Match!
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Maverick223 is offline  
Old August 7, 2011, 06:37 PM   #350
cbr954fz1
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 27, 2011
Location: palm bay
Posts: 32
czech point states that when using the m4 butt stock its best to use optics w/it because the check rest is higher than the original butt stock...might want to consider that too before spending all that $$$ verses the stock butt stock..just a thought..cbr

ok update i finally built my 2 vz58's and test fired them and its all good..first was built on a rare grand powers 10rd rec(only 100 imported) and the second was built on a ORF rec..sorry no pic's yet and yeh got my 3rd kit in also..but i did buy a vz2008 for the heck of it. hehe...now i gotta invest in ammo..
cbr954fz1 is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.