VZ.58 Club: - Page 3

sansone · November 22, 2010, 06:01 PM

I would MUCH rather have a VZ than an AK fellas. Just a few reasons: milled receiver, neat mag release, neat safety switch, and just because it is NOT an AK

.. thanks for all the photos

Maverick223 · November 22, 2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

I would MUCH rather have a VZ than an AK fellas.

Well join the club. Personally I find the big advantages to be the controls (mainly the safety), improved accuracy, better workmanship, and the lighter weight (especially when compared to a milled AK).

1858 · November 22, 2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick223

Personally I find the big advantages to be the controls (mainly the safety)

You just have to remember that the safety is opposite to the AR! The AR safety is typically operated with the thumb by flipping it down to the "fire" position. This is both natural and ergonomic. The Vz.58 safety is operated with the trigger finger (RH shooters) by flipping it up to fire. Not quite so ergonomic but still functional.

Maverick223 · November 22, 2010, 07:06 PM

Perhaps not the most ergonomic, but it is much improved over the AK system, and it has the side benefit of "telling you" when it is on safe (by getting in the way of the pistol grip). Additionally it follows the standard of pointing the lever parallel with the muzzle (not all firearms adhere to this standard but many do). As someone without an AR, the issue of being the opposite isn't a concern, but for those inconvenienced there is a Ambi. Safety available.

nalioth · November 22, 2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sansone

milled receiver

Just what is the fascination with milled receivers?

Has the Arsenal ~~propaganda~~ marketing gotten to everyone?

Maverick223 · November 22, 2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Just what is the fascination with milled receivers?

IMO they look nicer and exhibit better workmanship, but in an AK it is absolutely not worth it as there is too great a weight penalty in addition to the excessive cost. I know that some folks feel that they are stronger and/or more durable, but I don't subscribe to those beliefs. If I am doomed to using an AK

, then make it stamped so I can leave the wheelbarrow at home.

As far as the VZ.58, I am happy that it is milled (for the reasons mentioned above), but it is a different design that still affords light weight (in fact lighter than a stamped AK).

ifit · November 22, 2010, 10:21 PM

thanks mav, same rifle with new furniture(fab def. vfr hg) the red dot i pulled from my ar to try out on the vz. unfortunately the upper hg does not come of easily as compared with the pin, as both halves are solidly clamped on toghether with 4 screws. the hg is very light and when installed does not throw of the balance of the vz. this is the most solid hg i ever put on the vz, but not without some issues. so a heads up for those who are considering this particular hg. what i found out is that the cz-usa gas block(mine) is taller than an original vz58 hg(my vz parts kit)
vz58 gas block from my parts kit

cz-usa vz gas block

this prevented the front portion of the upper hg to sit flush with the lower, sadly i had t cut off the front portion and dremel a good amount underneath for it to sit flush.
this is part of the front portion i took off(notice how much i would have to dremel so i decided to cut it off,

then trimmed a little bit more under neath to sit flush

some close up pics, you can see the releif cuts on the hg where the screws go

bottom

Maverick223 · November 22, 2010, 10:40 PM

Thank you for the information, ifit. That gives me a bit to think about, because I like how simple it is to remove the piston for cleaning (would be really handy if I decided to shoot corrosive ammo). I could probably swap the upper for one from North Eastern Arms, but that would make it a $350.00 handguard!

Shane333 · November 22, 2010, 11:09 PM

My D-Technik VZ58 from WaffenWerks.

I figure that she's elegant enough for a picture with my wife's great-grandmother's hand-embroidered piano bench.

Maverick223 · November 22, 2010, 11:14 PM

Nice looking rifle, Shane. You are now a member in good standing.

A few questions for those of you with muzzle devices on your VZ.58: Do they actually reduce recoil or simply suppress flash (basically how much louder will it be after installing one), and how difficult is it to cut back the bbl extension for threading?

Shane333 · November 22, 2010, 11:26 PM

My muzzle brake was permanently attached by WaffenWerks (who apparently also replaced the front sight to include a bayonet lug) so I don't know how hard it would be to do the job oneself.

I haven't had a chance to shoot my new VZ58 yet, so I can't remark on the muzzle flash impact. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a marginal increase in noise for the shooter, and a notable increase in noise level for anyone standing next to the shooter.

MTMilitiaman · November 23, 2010, 12:26 AM

How difficult is it to SBR one of those?

I was thinking how if I got another AK it should be a Krink build. But I did get to handle one of these Vz58s at a local FFL and was impressed by the quality of its machining and worksmanship, weight and balance, and the placement of the controls (I even shoot lefty, so the AK's controls aren't even that bad for me). With the lighter weight and better balance, I was wondering how short you could get the barrel on one of those without adversely affecting reliability or accelerating wear, and without massive modification of the gas system? Could you have the barrel threaded for a flash suppressor right in front of the gas block and put a QD Vortex or Blackout on it? How long of a barrel would that be?

Nice rifles guys.

Maverick223 · November 23, 2010, 01:32 AM

With the GP gas system I imagine it wouldn't be terribly difficult to SBR, but I don't really know. If you plan to run a suppressor it would probably do alright, otherwise you would might need to open up the gas port for it to operate reliably, especially if you want to go all the way down to a Krinkov length bbl (only 8in. IIRC).

An interesting little detail that you may or may not already know is that virtually all of them (those with mil. spec barrels) are already technically SBRs. IIRC the bbl length is 15.75in., and thus requires a short extension for sales in the US.

nalioth · November 23, 2010, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick223

An interesting little detail that you may or may not already know is that virtually all of them (those with mil. spec barrels) are already technically SBRs. IIRC the bbl length is 15.75in., and thus requires a short extension for sales in the US.

Actually, 15.66666666~" or 15⅔", but "illegally short but fixed with a permanent muzzle device" will do

MTMilitiaman · November 23, 2010, 03:28 PM

Well I don't want to have to alter the gas system and I don't want to have to run any funky muzzle brake. If I have to think more "AMD-length" than "Krink-length," i.e 11 to 13 inches verses 8 to 10 inches, I am okay with that. I just think it would be cool to stubby that thing up a bit and add a suppressor, and I was wondering realistically how short I could get away with?

I don't even own the rifle, I am just mulling over ideas in my head. Window-shopping, if I may?

Maverick223 · November 23, 2010, 07:32 PM

Just speculation but using what little I know about AKs, you'd probably be okay with AMD length, but iffy on Krink length (even the original has trouble with certain types of ammo without modification). Perhaps Bohemus might know a bit more...they are made in his backyard after all. It might be worth shooting him a mssg.

Bohemus · November 24, 2010, 01:06 PM

MTMilitiaman: Somethink like this? Even if its not supercompact you wont get away without modification of the gas system - channel between barrel and piston is slightly wider but I dont have any exact number, nor I have any FSN 01K home to measure it...
sorry

Shane333 · November 24, 2010, 01:18 PM

Bohemus, I don't care much for the supercompact, but the compact is sure pretty.

Maverick223 · November 24, 2010, 01:52 PM

I like the FSN 01K too. Thanks for the additional information, Bohemus.

Bennybone · December 9, 2010, 01:17 AM

How did you get in contact with Waffen Werks and what was the price?

Bennybone · December 9, 2010, 01:22 AM

This is the latest info from my research...

TGI in stock folding style with 1 30 round mag - 690.00

Czechpoint sporter with 2 10 round mags - 745.00

Accessories :

There is a package for the M4 style buttstock with recoil damping tube forerail for 185.00

is this about the cheapest to outfit this weapons platform?

Thanks,

Hoping to order within the month.

Lastly Czechpoint states to be running a Holiday special starting Dec 15th, wonder what the discount will be.

Maverick223 · December 9, 2010, 11:27 AM

Benny, I don't know if the deal is still available, but I ordered my VZ.58 from TGI for $590.00 (with the inclusion of only one 30rnd. magazine). This was 6mo. or more ago, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

sturmgewehr · December 9, 2010, 11:31 AM

I really like the Vz.58. Here's a video review I did of my rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPB9GbbBylI

Maverick223 · December 9, 2010, 11:57 AM

Great video StG. I agree with your assessment.

BTW, the furniture is sawdust impregnated resin...which is actually much stronger and more durable than it sounds like. It is similar in strength to fiberglass but cheaper and affording an interesting/different look.

Uncle Mike · December 9, 2010, 11:58 AM

I'll play....

While not in its final form, it does for now. I kinda, 'threw' that together, as far as the accessories are concerned, with some parts laying around the shop, and some I purchased from various establishments.

Lookie..../www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=549085

November 22, 2010, 06:01 PM	#51
sansone Member Join Date: March 10, 2007 Location: north florida USA Posts: 2,134	I would MUCH rather have a VZ than an AK fellas. Just a few reasons: milled receiver, neat mag release, neat safety switch, and just because it is NOT an AK .. thanks for all the photos __________________ PM me if you need something

November 22, 2010, 07:06 PM	#54
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	Perhaps not the most ergonomic, but it is much improved over the AK system, and it has the side benefit of "telling you" when it is on safe (by getting in the way of the pistol grip). Additionally it follows the standard of pointing the lever parallel with the muzzle (not all firearms adhere to this standard but many do). As someone without an AR, the issue of being the opposite isn't a concern, but for those inconvenienced there is a Ambi. Safety available. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

November 22, 2010, 10:40 PM	#58
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	Thank you for the information, ifit. That gives me a bit to think about, because I like how simple it is to remove the piston for cleaning (would be really handy if I decided to shoot corrosive ammo). I could probably swap the upper for one from North Eastern Arms, but that would make it a $350.00 handguard! __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

November 22, 2010, 11:09 PM	#59
Shane333 Member Join Date: October 29, 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 450	Pictures for my membership My D-Technik VZ58 from WaffenWerks. I figure that she's elegant enough for a picture with my wife's great-grandmother's hand-embroidered piano bench.

November 22, 2010, 11:14 PM	#60
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	Nice looking rifle, Shane. You are now a member in good standing. A few questions for those of you with muzzle devices on your VZ.58: Do they actually reduce recoil or simply suppress flash (basically how much louder will it be after installing one), and how difficult is it to cut back the bbl extension for threading? __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

November 22, 2010, 10:21 PM	#57
ifit Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 722	thanks mav, same rifle with new furniture(fab def. vfr hg) the red dot i pulled from my ar to try out on the vz. unfortunately the upper hg does not come of easily as compared with the pin, as both halves are solidly clamped on toghether with 4 screws. the hg is very light and when installed does not throw of the balance of the vz. this is the most solid hg i ever put on the vz, but not without some issues. so a heads up for those who are considering this particular hg. what i found out is that the cz-usa gas block(mine) is taller than an original vz58 hg(my vz parts kit) vz58 gas block from my parts kit cz-usa vz gas block this prevented the front portion of the upper hg to sit flush with the lower, sadly i had t cut off the front portion and dremel a good amount underneath for it to sit flush. this is part of the front portion i took off(notice how much i would have to dremel so i decided to cut it off, then trimmed a little bit more under neath to sit flush some close up pics, you can see the releif cuts on the hg where the screws go bottom

November 22, 2010, 11:26 PM	#61
Shane333 Member Join Date: October 29, 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 450	My muzzle brake was permanently attached by WaffenWerks (who apparently also replaced the front sight to include a bayonet lug) so I don't know how hard it would be to do the job oneself. I haven't had a chance to shoot my new VZ58 yet, so I can't remark on the muzzle flash impact. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a marginal increase in noise for the shooter, and a notable increase in noise level for anyone standing next to the shooter.

November 23, 2010, 12:26 AM	#62
MTMilitiaman Member Join Date: April 28, 2005 Location: Missoula, Montana Posts: 2,372	How difficult is it to SBR one of those? I was thinking how if I got another AK it should be a Krink build. But I did get to handle one of these Vz58s at a local FFL and was impressed by the quality of its machining and worksmanship, weight and balance, and the placement of the controls (I even shoot lefty, so the AK's controls aren't even that bad for me). With the lighter weight and better balance, I was wondering how short you could get the barrel on one of those without adversely affecting reliability or accelerating wear, and without massive modification of the gas system? Could you have the barrel threaded for a flash suppressor right in front of the gas block and put a QD Vortex or Blackout on it? How long of a barrel would that be? Nice rifles guys. __________________ M1A--because volume is fine, but accuracy is final.

November 23, 2010, 01:32 AM	#63
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	With the GP gas system I imagine it wouldn't be terribly difficult to SBR, but I don't really know. If you plan to run a suppressor it would probably do alright, otherwise you would might need to open up the gas port for it to operate reliably, especially if you want to go all the way down to a Krinkov length bbl (only 8in. IIRC). An interesting little detail that you may or may not already know is that virtually all of them (those with mil. spec barrels) are already technically SBRs. IIRC the bbl length is 15.75in., and thus requires a short extension for sales in the US. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

November 23, 2010, 03:28 PM	#65
MTMilitiaman Member Join Date: April 28, 2005 Location: Missoula, Montana Posts: 2,372	Well I don't want to have to alter the gas system and I don't want to have to run any funky muzzle brake. If I have to think more "AMD-length" than "Krink-length," i.e 11 to 13 inches verses 8 to 10 inches, I am okay with that. I just think it would be cool to stubby that thing up a bit and add a suppressor, and I was wondering realistically how short I could get away with? I don't even own the rifle, I am just mulling over ideas in my head. Window-shopping, if I may? __________________ M1A--because volume is fine, but accuracy is final.

November 23, 2010, 07:32 PM	#66
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	Just speculation but using what little I know about AKs, you'd probably be okay with AMD length, but iffy on Krink length (even the original has trouble with certain types of ammo without modification). Perhaps Bohemus might know a bit more...they are made in his backyard after all. It might be worth shooting him a mssg. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

November 24, 2010, 01:06 PM	#67
Bohemus Member Join Date: September 14, 2009 Location: Mater Urbium, Bohemia Posts: 348	MTMilitiaman: Somethink like this? Even if its not supercompact you wont get away without modification of the gas system - channel between barrel and piston is slightly wider but I dont have any exact number, nor I have any FSN 01K home to measure it... sorry __________________ Sa vz.58 >> 158

November 24, 2010, 01:18 PM	#68
Shane333 Member Join Date: October 29, 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 450	Bohemus, I don't care much for the supercompact, but the compact is sure pretty.

November 24, 2010, 01:52 PM	#69
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	I like the FSN 01K too. Thanks for the additional information, Bohemus. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 9, 2010, 01:17 AM	#70
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	How did you get in contact with Waffen Werks and what was the price?

December 9, 2010, 01:22 AM	#71
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	This is the latest info from my research... TGI in stock folding style with 1 30 round mag - 690.00 Czechpoint sporter with 2 10 round mags - 745.00 Accessories : There is a package for the M4 style buttstock with recoil damping tube forerail for 185.00 is this about the cheapest to outfit this weapons platform? Thanks, Hoping to order within the month. Lastly Czechpoint states to be running a Holiday special starting Dec 15th, wonder what the discount will be.

December 9, 2010, 11:27 AM	#72
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	Benny, I don't know if the deal is still available, but I ordered my VZ.58 from TGI for $590.00 (with the inclusion of only one 30rnd. magazine). This was 6mo. or more ago, but it doesn't hurt to ask. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 9, 2010, 11:31 AM	#73
sturmgewehr Member Join Date: November 6, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 927	I really like the Vz.58. Here's a video review I did of my rifle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPB9GbbBylI __________________ Please visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more!

December 9, 2010, 11:57 AM	#74
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 11,077	Great video StG. I agree with your assessment. BTW, the furniture is sawdust impregnated resin...which is actually much stronger and more durable than it sounds like. It is similar in strength to fiberglass but cheaper and affording an interesting/different look. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 9, 2010, 11:58 AM	#75
Uncle Mike Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: never never land...never land here! Posts: 3,067	I'll play.... While not in its final form, it does for now. I kinda, 'threw' that together, as far as the accessories are concerned, with some parts laying around the shop, and some I purchased from various establishments. Lookie..../www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=549085 __________________ Death stares every man in the face... all a man can do is stare back and grin- Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum <>< Praise God <><