VZ.58 Club: - Page 5

nalioth · December 23, 2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armed hiker

Nalioth
I see that now, sounds like a great way to make a century gun is to just have them import the competition lol.

Actually, Century was the first to import the Czech Vz58 (in a neutered state). It took them about 2 more years to figure out they wanted to produce their own.

Armed Hiker, please use [quote][/quote] tags instead of [code][/code] tags. It makes what you're quoting more readable (and doesn't cause a 3x width web page).

armed hiker · December 23, 2010, 04:39 PM

nalioth

Quote:

please use tags instead of tags. It makes what you're quoting more readable (and doesn't cause a 3x width web page).

Lol.... I will get it , I am not that up on message boards. feel free to point me in the proper direction when I stray, I promise not to take offense.

When you say "in a neutered state" what are you referring to?
I look at his Century and it looks to be the same as what Czechpoint and others are selling right now.
1. D-Technik receiver

2. Chrome lined barrel (assuming since it has the chopped up bayonet mount and barrel extender.

I did not catch weather he had 922r parts but does he need them if the receiver had not been modified still a sporter (no 30rd mags)?

I think he is as far away from a current century product as czechpoint is.
No?

armed hiker · December 23, 2010, 04:43 PM

Wow looked at that posting and that was bad. can I go back and fix it?

Maverick223 · December 23, 2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

When you say "in a neutered state" what are you referring to?

Just that it uses a 10rnd. single stack magazine rather than the standard double stack. Per my understanding 922r is not in effect unless this is changed (which I assume he intends to do).

Quote:

Wow looked at that posting and that was bad. can I go back and fix it?

Sure can, there should be a little "Edit" button on the bottom right of the post...click it and modify as needed.

Bennybone · December 23, 2010, 10:05 PM

I do not plan on milling out the receiver to accomodate double stack mags, i would sooner find another gunbroker deal and have two VZ 58(s) .

Instead of "neutered" maybe we should call it short... Well nevermind I would rather be called anything but short

Videos, couldn't crop them any closer I guess you need an advanced degree it techno-nerd to know how to do that.

These videos coincide with the target photos from above.

ENJOY !

Waffen Werks VZ58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcOerUn3QU

CAI VZ58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIxnqaaM8U

armed hiker · December 23, 2010, 10:06 PM

Maverick223
Thanks ! post fixed.

That's what I thought about the 10rd receiver. I have been lead to believe all of the Vz58's come in that way and just some are modified in country. Any thoughts on that?
I believe that they could not import them with the 30 rounders (and bayonet mount).

armed hiker · December 23, 2010, 10:14 PM

Bennybone
Nice videos! lol the shots were quiet enough down range I hope never to be on that end.

Oh and better not feed that hay to the critters you have so much lead in it you can hear it clang .... lol

nalioth · December 23, 2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armed hiker

That's what I thought about the 10rd receiver. I have been lead to believe all of the Vz58's come in that way and just some are modified in country. Any thoughts on that?

You are correct. All VZ58s are imported with a "single stack" receiver and no US parts.

The importer mills open the mag well and adds 922r parts before sending them on to distributors.

Bennybone · December 26, 2010, 11:00 AM

I installed the Zahal.org / FAB Defense polymer rifle upgrade combo kit ~ $ 190.00 last night.

Thoughts and impressions: It looks great but getting there was a battle. The products arrived nicely packaged with NO INSTRUCTIONS. I went to Zahal's and FAB's websites, plenty o' photos but no instructions. I searched the Internet and there are a few other owners with the kits already on but nobody really speaks to what it takes to outfit the gun and convert it to tacticool...

So I approached the situation blind, BAD IDEA !

5 hours later and a few knicked up finders and knuckles it was complete.

NOTES: On the sporter stock, drop the pistol grip screw first and then when unscrewing the interior receiver nut which holds the stock in place turn RIGHT to unscrew. (Reverse threaded).

On the lower handguard, I looked like a Monkey trying to woo a football, how is one supposed to beat the heck out of a small little pin without knicking/gashing/mauling the receiver and stock???? I finally wrapped the gun in a shirt and placed it in a vice and cinched down on it with the base of the receiver butted up against the table with cushioning under that. Had to go for the handheld sledge after numerous attempts with just a hammer. Used a stubby phillips screwdriver and FINALLY the pin released !!! As I read and read and read on the Internet someone out there stated that it doesn't matter which side you move the pin to even though it looks like one end has a flanged head. Just keep trying.

Next was separating the Sporter upper handguard from the metallic piston cover. Where is that football....? Oh my goodness did I feel like a supreme **** when I finally figured this one out. Again no instructions on the manufactures website and no Internet guides from other owners. So I pryed and pryed and pryed on that Sporter handguard section, I even miraculously got the middle holder out but couldn't get the two to separate. I was desperate at this point and pissed, and in my frustration I began twisting the part (in a wringing motion) and guess what, that thing turns 180 degrees in place and drops right out. HOLY $#%* .

So I replace the handguards, install the cheapo red-dot. Get to the recoil buffer and again come to the conclusion that someone at this point, someone of a higher order, is just wanting to have some fun at my expense.... They package an allen wrench with the recoil buffer tube and eventually I discovered the secret access point under the recoil tube in which you slide the end way up in there to disengage the middle bolt from the counter-threaded outer bolt.

Lastly the buttstock will only go so far onto the back end of the buffer tube before it stops dead in its tracks and won't go any further. Once again it is time to play with the football. I tried and tried to get that tube in there but it wouldnt budge. Well the secret is that when it stops you must then pull out manually on the bolt on the exterior of the butt stock to further removed the retaining bolt to allow for passage.

DONE.

I guess by now you have figured out that I have NEVER converted a gun before, nor do I have a large overhead of creativity.... But if I can do this then I am sure anyone can. Here are the final results.

BEFORE:

BEFORE: parts exploded out for viewing (all stock)

AFTER: parts exploded out for viewing (Kit)

AFTER: Assembled whole

AFTER: Front handguards / rail system

AFTER: Buttstock and recoil tube

Maverick223 · December 26, 2010, 12:35 PM

Lookin' good, Bennybone.

I understand the desire to keep plugging till you figure something out, but you should have come here in your frustration. I have completely disassembled (just for familiarization) mine and already discovered some of the tricks to removing the furniture and such (I am sure that there are others here with similar experience...and more of it). That said, you got it done, and it looks good, so no worries.

Dave Markowitz · December 26, 2010, 08:49 PM

I have a Century VZ-2008. It had some teething problems when I first got it a couple years ago, but after a break-in period it's been trouble free. Initially, the phosphate finish inside the action was thick enough to impeded cycling. I got numerous failures to extract and eject. After polishing the contact points by degreasing, "lubricating" with Flitz metal polish, working the action about 100 times, and finally cleaning and properly lubing, it ran much better. Since I crossed the 200 round threshold it's ran 100% for at least 400 rounds.

The butt pad is from FSE, the brake is from CNC Warrior, and the paracord wrap on the stock was done by me.

At some point I may replace the furniture and/or install a red dot. In the meantime, I'm happy with it.

nalioth · December 26, 2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Dave Markowitz"

The butt pad is from FSE

For those of you who may be interested, it's not a Vz58 butt pad.

It's a copy of the Soviet "baby shoe" grenade launcher butt pad, which - in its original form - was issued to combloc soldiers who get to fire grenades from their AK.

It'll add about an inch to your LOP.

Dave Markowitz · December 26, 2010, 10:01 PM

That's correct about the FSE butt pad. Although it was intended for AKs, it fits the VZ-58 stock like it was made for it.

Maverick223 · December 27, 2010, 12:27 AM

Dave, I did the same thing to my folder (all of 'em for that matter)...it isn't pictured in the above photo (post no. 1) because that is a "out-of-box" shot, but that was the first thing I added (the sling came pre-installed, otherwise that'd be the first). The paracord makes it generally more comfortable, not stick to you on cold, icy days, helps with cheek weld, and adds a bit of useful material for survival.

Glad to hear that your CAI build is reliable with a little work...how is accuracy?

Dave Markowitz · December 27, 2010, 11:19 AM

I'm seeing accuracy on par with my AKs. About at inch at 25 yards, 4 to 5" at 100 yards. For me the limiting factors are the open sights and short sight radius, which magnifies any aiming errors. I can keep my Arsenal SLR-101SG under 4" at 100 but it has a Mojo peep installed, and frankly, it's got a better barrel than most other AKs.

Maverick223 · December 27, 2010, 12:13 PM

That isn't bad; FWIW, CzechPoint sells a peep that replaces the rear leaf (uses the existing slider) that might help. I plan to purchase one, just need to figure out what my plans are for the furniture first.

Bennybone · December 29, 2010, 09:32 AM

Consider this my attempt to "recruit" more people into our "Club"

As of today, 12-29-10, there are some good deals out there for REAL VZ58's. Do a google search for VZ58 and you will see that Wholesale Hunter has what are stated to be CZ-USA VZ58's for 639.99 plus 25.00 shipping to your FFL. States that they have 4 left.

Also there is an individual on Calguns forum selling a VZ58 built using the ORF (Ohio Rapid Fire) reciever states that it is new and only test fired... You are basically buying a home built kit. Price is 500.00

I do not know these people, I do not vouch for the quality or functionality of their offerings again i am only spreading the knowledge of what is available to date to get some new owners a fair deal.

Goodluck let us know if you buy one!!!

BB

Racebannon · December 29, 2010, 09:46 AM

I have the real CZ 58, it's a great gun, much better than my AKs.

Bennybone · December 29, 2010, 12:04 PM

Oh yea... Post up a pic, lets see it.

What makes it better than your AK's, in your opinion?

Welcome to the Club

Maverick223 · December 29, 2010, 12:18 PM

Welcome to the club, Racebannon. I'll second the motion for pics.

BTW, thanks for the references, BB. I wouldn't be a bit afraid of the CZ-USA ones (like my own), but while the kit may be high quality it depends greatly on the smith that built it.

nalioth · December 29, 2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick223

BTW, thanks for the references, BB. I wouldn't be a bit afraid of the CZ-USA ones (like my own), but while the kit may be high quality it depends greatly on the smith that built it.

*cough*manufacturer of receiver*cough*

Other variables to consider exist with that rifle, too.

Maverick223 · December 29, 2010, 05:21 PM

^Are there known problems with the ORF receivers?

nalioth · December 29, 2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick223

^Are there known problems with the ORF receivers?

You'll need the "big guffaw" smiley for that statement.

Honestly, you haven't heard of ORFs "quality" products?

Maverick223 · December 29, 2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Honestly, you haven't heard of ORFs "quality" products?

I have but I haven't heard of problems with their VZ.58 clones. IIRC they had big problems with the fire control group and improper mating on the trunnions of AKs...and in hindsight if you can muck up a bent section of sheet metal riveted to a cast hunk-o-steel, and a hammer fired FCG...well, you should be able to mess up a machined receiver and striker FCG pretty good.

Not that I don't believe you, but what are the problems with the VZ.58 receivers? I am sure that there are other folks considering buying/building one (or already having problems with theirs). BTW, thanks for bringing this to our attention, nalioth.

armed hiker · December 30, 2010, 10:27 PM

As I was looking into building a VZ instead of buying one built I went through the roller coaster ride that was ORF. So many wanted a good receiver at a good price to build these guns and it seems that there were more than a few teething problems. they all could have been worked out given time.

I would be cautious of a gun with the ORF receiver, maybe more so than a century build ... lol

BennyBone
Nice job on the VZ , I looked at that stock how do you like it? I wondered if the raised piece was solid or not.

Dave.
It looks as though century may be getting their act together, I read more good things about their VZ2000 than bad. Thats good and bad for me, now I may need another VZ.

December 26, 2010, 11:00 AM	#109
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	I installed the Zahal.org / FAB Defense polymer rifle upgrade combo kit ~ $ 190.00 last night. Thoughts and impressions: It looks great but getting there was a battle. The products arrived nicely packaged with NO INSTRUCTIONS. I went to Zahal's and FAB's websites, plenty o' photos but no instructions. I searched the Internet and there are a few other owners with the kits already on but nobody really speaks to what it takes to outfit the gun and convert it to tacticool... So I approached the situation blind, BAD IDEA ! 5 hours later and a few knicked up finders and knuckles it was complete. NOTES: On the sporter stock, drop the pistol grip screw first and then when unscrewing the interior receiver nut which holds the stock in place turn RIGHT to unscrew. (Reverse threaded). On the lower handguard, I looked like a Monkey trying to woo a football, how is one supposed to beat the heck out of a small little pin without knicking/gashing/mauling the receiver and stock???? I finally wrapped the gun in a shirt and placed it in a vice and cinched down on it with the base of the receiver butted up against the table with cushioning under that. Had to go for the handheld sledge after numerous attempts with just a hammer. Used a stubby phillips screwdriver and FINALLY the pin released !!! As I read and read and read on the Internet someone out there stated that it doesn't matter which side you move the pin to even though it looks like one end has a flanged head. Just keep trying. Next was separating the Sporter upper handguard from the metallic piston cover. Where is that football....? Oh my goodness did I feel like a supreme **** when I finally figured this one out. Again no instructions on the manufactures website and no Internet guides from other owners. So I pryed and pryed and pryed on that Sporter handguard section, I even miraculously got the middle holder out but couldn't get the two to separate. I was desperate at this point and pissed, and in my frustration I began twisting the part (in a wringing motion) and guess what, that thing turns 180 degrees in place and drops right out. HOLY $#%* . So I replace the handguards, install the cheapo red-dot. Get to the recoil buffer and again come to the conclusion that someone at this point, someone of a higher order, is just wanting to have some fun at my expense.... They package an allen wrench with the recoil buffer tube and eventually I discovered the secret access point under the recoil tube in which you slide the end way up in there to disengage the middle bolt from the counter-threaded outer bolt. Lastly the buttstock will only go so far onto the back end of the buffer tube before it stops dead in its tracks and won't go any further. Once again it is time to play with the football. I tried and tried to get that tube in there but it wouldnt budge. Well the secret is that when it stops you must then pull out manually on the bolt on the exterior of the butt stock to further removed the retaining bolt to allow for passage. DONE. I guess by now you have figured out that I have NEVER converted a gun before, nor do I have a large overhead of creativity.... But if I can do this then I am sure anyone can. Here are the final results. BEFORE: BEFORE: parts exploded out for viewing (all stock) AFTER: parts exploded out for viewing (Kit) AFTER: Assembled whole AFTER: Front handguards / rail system AFTER: Buttstock and recoil tube Last edited by Bennybone; December 26, 2010 at 11:12 AM.

December 26, 2010, 12:35 PM	#110
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,079	Lookin' good, Bennybone. I understand the desire to keep plugging till you figure something out, but you should have come here in your frustration. I have completely disassembled (just for familiarization) mine and already discovered some of the tricks to removing the furniture and such (I am sure that there are others here with similar experience...and more of it). That said, you got it done, and it looks good, so no worries. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 26, 2010, 08:49 PM	#111
Dave Markowitz Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 5,943	I have a Century VZ-2008. It had some teething problems when I first got it a couple years ago, but after a break-in period it's been trouble free. Initially, the phosphate finish inside the action was thick enough to impeded cycling. I got numerous failures to extract and eject. After polishing the contact points by degreasing, "lubricating" with Flitz metal polish, working the action about 100 times, and finally cleaning and properly lubing, it ran much better. Since I crossed the 200 round threshold it's ran 100% for at least 400 rounds. The butt pad is from FSE, the brake is from CNC Warrior, and the paracord wrap on the stock was done by me. At some point I may replace the furniture and/or install a red dot. In the meantime, I'm happy with it. __________________ Dave Markowitz ---- Dave's Blog O'Stuff :: The Shooter's Bar(SM) - Progun Attorneys :: The Rally Point

December 26, 2010, 10:01 PM	#113
Dave Markowitz Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 5,943	That's correct about the FSE butt pad. Although it was intended for AKs, it fits the VZ-58 stock like it was made for it. __________________ Dave Markowitz ---- Dave's Blog O'Stuff :: The Shooter's Bar(SM) - Progun Attorneys :: The Rally Point

December 27, 2010, 12:27 AM	#114
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,079	Dave, I did the same thing to my folder (all of 'em for that matter)...it isn't pictured in the above photo (post no. 1) because that is a "out-of-box" shot, but that was the first thing I added (the sling came pre-installed, otherwise that'd be the first). The paracord makes it generally more comfortable, not stick to you on cold, icy days, helps with cheek weld, and adds a bit of useful material for survival. Glad to hear that your CAI build is reliable with a little work...how is accuracy? __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 23, 2010, 04:43 PM	#103
armed hiker Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 32	Wow looked at that posting and that was bad. can I go back and fix it?

December 23, 2010, 10:05 PM	#105
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	I do not plan on milling out the receiver to accomodate double stack mags, i would sooner find another gunbroker deal and have two VZ 58(s) . Instead of "neutered" maybe we should call it short... Well nevermind I would rather be called anything but short Videos, couldn't crop them any closer I guess you need an advanced degree it techno-nerd to know how to do that. These videos coincide with the target photos from above. ENJOY ! Waffen Werks VZ58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcOerUn3QU CAI VZ58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIxnqaaM8U

December 23, 2010, 10:06 PM	#106
armed hiker Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 32	Maverick223 Thanks ! post fixed. That's what I thought about the 10rd receiver. I have been lead to believe all of the Vz58's come in that way and just some are modified in country. Any thoughts on that? I believe that they could not import them with the 30 rounders (and bayonet mount).

December 23, 2010, 10:14 PM	#107
armed hiker Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 32	Bennybone Nice videos! lol the shots were quiet enough down range I hope never to be on that end. Oh and better not feed that hay to the critters you have so much lead in it you can hear it clang .... lol

December 27, 2010, 11:19 AM	#115
Dave Markowitz Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 5,943	I'm seeing accuracy on par with my AKs. About at inch at 25 yards, 4 to 5" at 100 yards. For me the limiting factors are the open sights and short sight radius, which magnifies any aiming errors. I can keep my Arsenal SLR-101SG under 4" at 100 but it has a Mojo peep installed, and frankly, it's got a better barrel than most other AKs. __________________ Dave Markowitz ---- Dave's Blog O'Stuff :: The Shooter's Bar(SM) - Progun Attorneys :: The Rally Point

December 27, 2010, 12:13 PM	#116
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,079	That isn't bad; FWIW, CzechPoint sells a peep that replaces the rear leaf (uses the existing slider) that might help. I plan to purchase one, just need to figure out what my plans are for the furniture first. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 29, 2010, 09:32 AM	#117
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	Consider this my attempt to "recruit" more people into our "Club" As of today, 12-29-10, there are some good deals out there for REAL VZ58's. Do a google search for VZ58 and you will see that Wholesale Hunter has what are stated to be CZ-USA VZ58's for 639.99 plus 25.00 shipping to your FFL. States that they have 4 left. Also there is an individual on Calguns forum selling a VZ58 built using the ORF (Ohio Rapid Fire) reciever states that it is new and only test fired... You are basically buying a home built kit. Price is 500.00 I do not know these people, I do not vouch for the quality or functionality of their offerings again i am only spreading the knowledge of what is available to date to get some new owners a fair deal. Goodluck let us know if you buy one!!! BB

December 29, 2010, 09:46 AM	#118
Racebannon Member Join Date: February 20, 2008 Posts: 48	I have the real CZ 58, it's a great gun, much better than my AKs.

December 29, 2010, 12:04 PM	#119
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	Oh yea... Post up a pic, lets see it. What makes it better than your AK's, in your opinion? Welcome to the Club

December 29, 2010, 12:18 PM	#120
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,079	Welcome to the club, Racebannon. I'll second the motion for pics. BTW, thanks for the references, BB. I wouldn't be a bit afraid of the CZ-USA ones (like my own), but while the kit may be high quality it depends greatly on the smith that built it. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 29, 2010, 05:21 PM	#122
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,079	^Are there known problems with the ORF receivers? __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

December 30, 2010, 10:27 PM	#125
armed hiker Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 32	As I was looking into building a VZ instead of buying one built I went through the roller coaster ride that was ORF. So many wanted a good receiver at a good price to build these guns and it seems that there were more than a few teething problems. they all could have been worked out given time. I would be cautious of a gun with the ORF receiver, maybe more so than a century build ... lol BennyBone Nice job on the VZ , I looked at that stock how do you like it? I wondered if the raised piece was solid or not. Dave. It looks as though century may be getting their act together, I read more good things about their VZ2000 than bad. Thats good and bad for me, now I may need another VZ.