VZ.58 Club: - Page 8

Maverick223 · February 15, 2011, 10:46 PM

The ACE skeleton stock (and the folder for it) is a well made and robust stock (I have one on my Saiga-12), but personally I like the standard folder for the VZ.58. It is well designed, durable, and best of all it comes free with the rifle (depending upon which one you choose). The only real fault that I can think of is if you plan to use optics, as it is fairly low (doubt it would provide a good cheek weld).

abcdef · February 20, 2011, 11:54 AM

Thanks to all for for the feedback. Took a good look at a brand new out of the box D-Technik, seems very well built and assembled. The barrel was very, very soiled, make sure you run a bore brush/solvent patches through the barrel before firing it for the first time. Maybe it was just black colored grease but the patches were filthy. Everything else was pretty clean out of the box. After cleaning you get a nice shiny bore with defined lands and grooves. The CD-Rom that came with it was well done, by far the most technical and informative owners manual for a commercial firearm I've seen. They really went into detail about the development of the civilian export model and the engineering effort and overcoming various problems during the design process.

CobraGT · February 20, 2011, 04:14 PM

Mine

(note the long barrels, required to make them 'non-restricted' here north of the border)

Maverick223 · February 20, 2011, 04:20 PM

Welcome to the club, CobraGT! How long are those tubes...20in.?

CobraGT · February 20, 2011, 05:21 PM

18.5"-ish, to be unrestricted here... we can have shorter barrels, but then they are subject to stricter transport requirements and can only be fired at gun ranges

Maverick223 · February 20, 2011, 05:36 PM

Wow, that extra little bit of length sure looks like more...I suppose it is just the m4gery that it is pictured beside making it appear that way. Have you thought about dressing one up like the DMR variant as seen in post no. 148?

rocinante · February 20, 2011, 07:02 PM

CobraGT that 18.5 is only 2.5 inches long than what is legal here in the U.S. I like the way yours looks and wonder if the little bit of extra length has a positive impact. Could you cut your back and have the muzzle brake permanently attached and still be legal up there?

CobraGT · February 20, 2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocinante

CobraGT that 18.5 is only 2.5 inches long than what is legal here in the U.S. I like the way yours looks and wonder if the little bit of extra length has a positive impact. Could you cut your back and have the muzzle brake permanently attached and still be legal up there?

My understanding of our law is that if you cut the barrel to less than 18.5, you're a criminal... no ifs, ands, or buts. So nope, unfortunately not.

aubie515 · February 20, 2011, 10:08 PM

Check your laws...here in PA a long gun must be at least 26" OAL...in the picture...it does not look like the rifle has a stock, so it would not meet the 26" OAl required...making it NFA.

nalioth · February 20, 2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aubie515

Check your laws...here in PA a long gun must be at least 26" OAL...in the picture...it does not look like the rifle has a stock, so it would not meet the 26" OAl required...making it NFA.

Who are you addressing? There are 184 posts in this thread, and many pictures.

If you're referring to the pix most recently posted, they're posted by, and owned by a Canadian.

Maverick223 · February 20, 2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Check your laws...here in PA a long gun must be at least 26" OAL...in the picture...it does not look like the rifle has a stock, so it would not meet the 26" OAl required...making it NFA.

He is in Canada, and does have a stock on all pictured rifles (though a couple are folded). Furthermore, here in the US there is no stock requirement on a 18.5in. bbl VZ (don't know about in CAN; but those crazy Canadians tend to be fairly practical and stocks come in handy so they'd probably just look at you funny if you asked

) as it would measure about 27.5in in length (just confirmed this by measuring mine and adding about 2.5in.).

CobraGT · February 21, 2011, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick223

He is in Canada, and does have a stock on all pictured rifles (though a couple are folded). Furthermore, here in the US there is no stock requirement on a 18.5in. bbl VZ (don't know about in CAN; but those crazy Canadians tend to be fairly practical and stocks come in handy so they'd probably just look at you funny if you asked

) as it would measure about 27.5in in length (just confirmed this by measuring mine and adding about 2.5in.).

lol Yep, we're pretty practical! Here, a rifle does need to be a minimum of 26" overall length AND over 18.5"ish barrel length to be 'non-restricted' (which means it tan be fired in places other than ranges). And yes, even without stocks, all of mine meet both of thos requirements

Our gun laws are different up here... just as weird and illogical as yours, but different

Bennybone · February 21, 2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick223

Good luck Bennybone; I welcome photos of anything shot with your VZ (that goes for everyone; pitchurs are always good).

Well I didn't kill anything but time this past weekend.... I did however get to see what the 124gr JHP Sapsan (8m3 bullet) does to a water jug at 40 and 150 yards.

Enjoy !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hxyjBmcMGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUgxTjMbcNg

abcdef · February 21, 2011, 08:24 PM

Good Shoot'in Benny! Man I couldn't even see the jug at 150 yds until you zoomed in. At that range would it be better to set the rear sight for 150 since meters and yards are pretty close?

Maverick223 · February 21, 2011, 08:43 PM

Bennybone, thank you for sharing the videos...they are always a welcome addition. BTW, where on earth did you find Sapsan 8M3 (or was it Wolf Mil. Classic)? I could really use a couple of boxes of the stuff, i'm not picky WRT brand just as long as it is genuine 8M3 (I dissected some new production Mil. Classic a while back only to find that my lot was loaded with the Tula HP instead of the excellent Uly. bullet).

Bennybone · February 22, 2011, 10:41 AM

I lucked into 640 rounds of it on GunBroker a month ago, yes it is the true Russian labeled ULY "effect" bullets. I have 400 rounds left.

I don't know whether to shoot it all up or save it, it is marked 1998. I would think that shelf life on ammo is 10 years before it starts losing its "thwack".....

So a little bitter sweet, shoot and enjoy while it lasts or save it and hope that it is effective over the next 2 - 3 years....

If I come across anymore I will let you know

Bennybone · February 22, 2011, 10:47 AM

@ abcdef -

Thanks Man, too be honest I was a bit frustrated at this point of the shooting day. I had a LER scope mounted on the forerail and after taking 4 shots to get the 40 yard jug I started working on the 100 yard jug.

Well 25 rounds later the jug was still standing and I am thinking *** !

So I figured I had bumped the scope and knowing that a through cleaning was ahead I just took it off and started in on the 100 yard with open sights. 20 rounds later the jug still is sitting there.....

So I fooled with the 150 yard jug at first with setting of 3 which was hitting high and so then I went with Universal which was as you can see close enough.

Upon further inspection of the 100 yard jug when I finished the session, it had incurred shrapnel from an early miss which all the water leaked out except for an inch at the bottom. The jug had 10 holes in it so perceived misses where actually hits. So you live and you learn.

I am seriously considering a red dot mounted on the rear optic mount that Czechpoint is close to releasing.

BB

Maverick223 · February 22, 2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

I lucked into 640 rounds of it on GunBroker a month ago, yes it is the true Russian labeled ULY "effect" bullets. I have 400 rounds left.

I don't know whether to shoot it all up or save it, it is marked 1998. I would think that shelf life on ammo is 10 years before it starts losing its "thwack".....

So a little bitter sweet, shoot and enjoy while it lasts or save it and hope that it is effective over the next 2 - 3 years....

If I come across anymore I will let you know

I wouldn't worry about it, ammo lasts a great deal longer than most folks realize. Corrosive in particular, but all modern nitrocellulose based ammunition will last several decades if properly stored. After a little ballistics testing, I plan to do just that...store a couple magazines of it (and hope to never have need of it).

I'd appreciate that, those boogers have become scarce.

rocinante · February 22, 2011, 08:40 PM

Got my second vz2008 in. This one is a folder. The first one will be too as soon as I get my order in from czechpoint. It will take some mods or getting use to. First it is short and as a lefty the hinge is on the 'wrong' side and my nose is about half inch away from it. If I don't hold the stock tight I can see an unhappy nose in my future. I am definitely going to figure out some way to put a pad on it just for l.o.p. Second that square rod does feel sharp on your cheek. I wonder if I can pop the spring and flip it around to fold to the left? Then I would have the rear sling hook on the correct side of the gun. I could get someone to weld an attachment on the right so I could use a sling for shooting. The first rifle had the t shaped front sling ring and this one is a circle.

I got a second cnc warrior muzzle brake. I told the guy how tight the first one was and he sent me one that was looser. Too loose and it is short about a third a turn from indexing properly. Maybe it is the gun because the slant brake wasn't indexed super tight either. I think I will ask if I can return this brake and get one from the first batch that fit real tight. If that is a no go does anybody know what size washers I should get?

The bolt carrier on the first one seems to be smoother finished than the second. The second has slight swirling machining marks on it. But before anybody jumps on century for that the carrier is original czech. On thing I noticed on both bolt carriers is there is a part that is welded almost as if they had to extend that section, make it square. Was it originally different because of full auto feature?

They didn't seem to park the top cover on the second one. It is kind of a dull gray. I'll have to paint it a flat black to match up better. Otherwise the receiver and barrel is equally nicely machined and finished. The internal parts seem to be about the same state of usage, i.e. barely. Judging from the serial numbers the folder is like 700 rifles earlier than the first one.

The resin wood is kind of attractive in a functionally fugly way. I have a mako grip on the way and already have the sportster synthetic top and bottom hand guards. I might order a different metal top so I don't have to cut the tabs holding the resin wood piece in. My plan is to attach a rail directly to the top metal but it looks like the piston rides awfully close so I will have to determine if there is enough space inside for bolts.

No cant in sights.

Just got back from the range. Shot both rifles, 2 mags of wolf fmj, 1 of wolf military classic hp, 1 of something brass cases, might be yugo. No fail to feed or ejects. On the first rifle it didn't lock back on the last round once but did otherwise. Maybe the magazine? Pretty easy shooting guns even with the folding stock. The sharp rail edge and hinge didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. The czech style muzzle brake work pretty well and seem to send fireballs out of the two big side ports. Neither me or my kid will win any turkey shoots and we were firing free standing but overall it they seemed to stay in a decent spread.

I like it.

Maverick223 · February 22, 2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Second that square rod does feel sharp on your cheek. I wonder if I can pop the spring and flip it around to fold to the left?

rocinante, one of my first modifications to the rifle was a paracord wrap...simple but effective (and a good source of emergency cordage if needed). I can't see how you could reverse the folder without doing some cutting and welding.

Quote:

On thing I noticed on both bolt carriers is there is a part that is welded almost as if they had to extend that section, make it square. Was it originally different because of full auto feature?

I believe so, I think the addition is part of the FA/select-fire delete process.

Quote:

They didn't seem to park the top cover on the second one. It is kind of a dull gray. I'll have to paint it a flat black to match up better.

For some reason (possibly camo) that is the original color. I ordered mine in blk, because I feel it looks a bit better (though my mags are the original grey). I would recommend NAPA low gloss black ceramic engine paint for that job. It is rated for high heat and holds up better than anything else I have tried other than powdercoat, electrostatics, and epoxies. It also gives a nice flat drab sheen, which should match the phosphate finish fairly well.

Quote:

The resin wood is kind of attractive in a functionally fugly way. I have a mako grip on the way and already have the sportster synthetic top and bottom hand guards. I might order a different metal top so I don't have to cut the tabs holding the resin wood piece in. My plan is to attach a rail directly to the top metal but it looks like the piston rides awfully close so I will have to determine if there is enough space inside for bolts.

I agree with your assessment WRT the furniture. It is utilitarian to the extreme, but I like it. If the hardware clears the piston when you install it I think you'll be GTG because unlike the AK it has a short stroke piston that doesn't move much. In other words you don't have to worry about the bulged ends making contact, just the slender section in the middle.

A_Matthew · February 24, 2011, 02:03 AM

BennyBone,
Is that stock on your VZ a folding stock? Or is it a collapsible stock? Also, is it the same one on Zahal.org?

http://www.zahal.org/products/vz-58-..._parent=219001

Matthew

Bennybone · February 24, 2011, 10:08 AM

@ A Matthew -

Yes it is from Zahal and it is fixed but adjustible, not a folder. Installation opinions can be found on a post of mine on previous pages.

BB

A_Matthew · February 24, 2011, 12:01 PM

Bennybone,
Thanks, sorry for not reading through the thread more carefully before asking the question.

Matthew
P.S. Nice looking rifle!

SsevenN · February 28, 2011, 05:08 PM

Hey guys, checking in. I've been a huge fan of CZ pistols since I turned 21, now I'm about to join the VZ club too!

Hopefully as soon as the end of the week.

Maverick223 · February 28, 2011, 07:08 PM

Welcome to the club, SsevenN. Make sure and give an update, and if possible a range review, when the twins are adopted.

February 15, 2011, 10:46 PM	#176
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,080	The ACE skeleton stock (and the folder for it) is a well made and robust stock (I have one on my Saiga-12), but personally I like the standard folder for the VZ.58. It is well designed, durable, and best of all it comes free with the rifle (depending upon which one you choose). The only real fault that I can think of is if you plan to use optics, as it is fairly low (doubt it would provide a good cheek weld). __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

February 20, 2011, 04:14 PM	#178
CobraGT Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA (that big frozen country you hit if you keep heading north...) Posts: 19	Mine (note the long barrels, required to make them 'non-restricted' here north of the border) __________________ Canadian Gun Nut! www.canadiangunnutz.com

February 20, 2011, 04:20 PM	#179
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,080	Welcome to the club, CobraGT! How long are those tubes...20in.? __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

February 20, 2011, 05:21 PM	#180
CobraGT Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA (that big frozen country you hit if you keep heading north...) Posts: 19	18.5"-ish, to be unrestricted here... we can have shorter barrels, but then they are subject to stricter transport requirements and can only be fired at gun ranges __________________ Canadian Gun Nut! www.canadiangunnutz.com

February 20, 2011, 05:36 PM	#181
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,080	Wow, that extra little bit of length sure looks like more...I suppose it is just the m4gery that it is pictured beside making it appear that way. Have you thought about dressing one up like the DMR variant as seen in post no. 148? __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

February 20, 2011, 11:54 AM	#177
abcdef Member Join Date: October 24, 2004 Posts: 14	Thanks to all for for the feedback. Took a good look at a brand new out of the box D-Technik, seems very well built and assembled. The barrel was very, very soiled, make sure you run a bore brush/solvent patches through the barrel before firing it for the first time. Maybe it was just black colored grease but the patches were filthy. Everything else was pretty clean out of the box. After cleaning you get a nice shiny bore with defined lands and grooves. The CD-Rom that came with it was well done, by far the most technical and informative owners manual for a commercial firearm I've seen. They really went into detail about the development of the civilian export model and the engineering effort and overcoming various problems during the design process.

February 20, 2011, 07:02 PM	#182
rocinante Member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: Alpharetta GA Posts: 1,306	CobraGT that 18.5 is only 2.5 inches long than what is legal here in the U.S. I like the way yours looks and wonder if the little bit of extra length has a positive impact. Could you cut your back and have the muzzle brake permanently attached and still be legal up there?

February 20, 2011, 10:08 PM	#184
aubie515 Member Join Date: March 22, 2006 Location: SE PA Posts: 714	Check your laws...here in PA a long gun must be at least 26" OAL...in the picture...it does not look like the rifle has a stock, so it would not meet the 26" OAl required...making it NFA.

February 21, 2011, 08:24 PM	#189
abcdef Member Join Date: October 24, 2004 Posts: 14	Good Shoot'in Benny! Man I couldn't even see the jug at 150 yds until you zoomed in. At that range would it be better to set the rear sight for 150 since meters and yards are pretty close?

February 21, 2011, 08:43 PM	#190
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,080	Bennybone, thank you for sharing the videos...they are always a welcome addition. BTW, where on earth did you find Sapsan 8M3 (or was it Wolf Mil. Classic)? I could really use a couple of boxes of the stuff, i'm not picky WRT brand just as long as it is genuine 8M3 (I dissected some new production Mil. Classic a while back only to find that my lot was loaded with the Tula HP instead of the excellent Uly. bullet). __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

February 22, 2011, 10:41 AM	#191
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	I lucked into 640 rounds of it on GunBroker a month ago, yes it is the true Russian labeled ULY "effect" bullets. I have 400 rounds left. I don't know whether to shoot it all up or save it, it is marked 1998. I would think that shelf life on ammo is 10 years before it starts losing its "thwack"..... So a little bitter sweet, shoot and enjoy while it lasts or save it and hope that it is effective over the next 2 - 3 years.... If I come across anymore I will let you know

February 22, 2011, 10:47 AM	#192
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	@ abcdef - Thanks Man, too be honest I was a bit frustrated at this point of the shooting day. I had a LER scope mounted on the forerail and after taking 4 shots to get the 40 yard jug I started working on the 100 yard jug. Well 25 rounds later the jug was still standing and I am thinking *** ! So I figured I had bumped the scope and knowing that a through cleaning was ahead I just took it off and started in on the 100 yard with open sights. 20 rounds later the jug still is sitting there..... So I fooled with the 150 yard jug at first with setting of 3 which was hitting high and so then I went with Universal which was as you can see close enough. Upon further inspection of the 100 yard jug when I finished the session, it had incurred shrapnel from an early miss which all the water leaked out except for an inch at the bottom. The jug had 10 holes in it so perceived misses where actually hits. So you live and you learn. I am seriously considering a red dot mounted on the rear optic mount that Czechpoint is close to releasing. BB

February 22, 2011, 08:40 PM	#194
rocinante Member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: Alpharetta GA Posts: 1,306	Got my second vz2008 in. This one is a folder. The first one will be too as soon as I get my order in from czechpoint. It will take some mods or getting use to. First it is short and as a lefty the hinge is on the 'wrong' side and my nose is about half inch away from it. If I don't hold the stock tight I can see an unhappy nose in my future. I am definitely going to figure out some way to put a pad on it just for l.o.p. Second that square rod does feel sharp on your cheek. I wonder if I can pop the spring and flip it around to fold to the left? Then I would have the rear sling hook on the correct side of the gun. I could get someone to weld an attachment on the right so I could use a sling for shooting. The first rifle had the t shaped front sling ring and this one is a circle. I got a second cnc warrior muzzle brake. I told the guy how tight the first one was and he sent me one that was looser. Too loose and it is short about a third a turn from indexing properly. Maybe it is the gun because the slant brake wasn't indexed super tight either. I think I will ask if I can return this brake and get one from the first batch that fit real tight. If that is a no go does anybody know what size washers I should get? The bolt carrier on the first one seems to be smoother finished than the second. The second has slight swirling machining marks on it. But before anybody jumps on century for that the carrier is original czech. On thing I noticed on both bolt carriers is there is a part that is welded almost as if they had to extend that section, make it square. Was it originally different because of full auto feature? They didn't seem to park the top cover on the second one. It is kind of a dull gray. I'll have to paint it a flat black to match up better. Otherwise the receiver and barrel is equally nicely machined and finished. The internal parts seem to be about the same state of usage, i.e. barely. Judging from the serial numbers the folder is like 700 rifles earlier than the first one. The resin wood is kind of attractive in a functionally fugly way. I have a mako grip on the way and already have the sportster synthetic top and bottom hand guards. I might order a different metal top so I don't have to cut the tabs holding the resin wood piece in. My plan is to attach a rail directly to the top metal but it looks like the piston rides awfully close so I will have to determine if there is enough space inside for bolts. No cant in sights. Just got back from the range. Shot both rifles, 2 mags of wolf fmj, 1 of wolf military classic hp, 1 of something brass cases, might be yugo. No fail to feed or ejects. On the first rifle it didn't lock back on the last round once but did otherwise. Maybe the magazine? Pretty easy shooting guns even with the folding stock. The sharp rail edge and hinge didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. The czech style muzzle brake work pretty well and seem to send fireballs out of the two big side ports. Neither me or my kid will win any turkey shoots and we were firing free standing but overall it they seemed to stay in a decent spread. I like it.

February 24, 2011, 02:03 AM	#196
A_Matthew Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: North Idaho Posts: 295	BennyBone, Is that stock on your VZ a folding stock? Or is it a collapsible stock? Also, is it the same one on Zahal.org? http://www.zahal.org/products/vz-58-..._parent=219001 Matthew __________________ -- Matthew Luke 22:36b And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Molon Labe!

February 24, 2011, 10:08 AM	#197
Bennybone Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 57	@ A Matthew - Yes it is from Zahal and it is fixed but adjustible, not a folder. Installation opinions can be found on a post of mine on previous pages. BB

February 24, 2011, 12:01 PM	#198
A_Matthew Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: North Idaho Posts: 295	Bennybone, Thanks, sorry for not reading through the thread more carefully before asking the question. Matthew P.S. Nice looking rifle! __________________ -- Matthew Luke 22:36b And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Molon Labe!

February 28, 2011, 05:08 PM	#199
SsevenN Member Join Date: January 28, 2008 Location: NM Posts: 554	Hey guys, checking in. I've been a huge fan of CZ pistols since I turned 21, now I'm about to join the VZ club too! Hopefully as soon as the end of the week. __________________ "First comes smiles, then lies, last is gunfire..." Roland of Gilead "The Dark Tower"

February 28, 2011, 07:08 PM	#200
Maverick223 Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: 28078 Posts: 11,080	Welcome to the club, SsevenN. Make sure and give an update, and if possible a range review, when the twins are adopted. __________________ Join us in the Rimfire Match! If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. - Ronald Reagan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ